matt17br wrote:
You have more than a valid point, I thought he was a tad lower than 74 too. What do you think would be fairer, 72 or 73?
In my opinion 72, because if we take his generation in game, he is the one with best TT and PR stats, even thought some of the others riders have higher resistance. But the others are riders with very good results in TTs on the under23 categories and lowers categories, which isn't case of López.
Also as he is very young there would be still a great margin to improve with 72.
But he may be a good time-trialist. It's hard to judge by one result like that,in circustances like that.
Edited by jpgm97 on 16-09-2016 14:35
I wouldn't say so, it definitely wasn't as hilly as you make it out to be. The riders started at 1514 m and the highest point they touched was 1660 m, after a climb that had a 6% average, something that in PCM really would make the TT stat a lot more. Though yes I agree 74 is high. Furthermore, the DHL stat is irrelevant in TTs, just like the Flat stat. 71 really is minimum in his case.
Anyways these should be MON values after Vuelta imho:
82: Froome+, Quintana 81: Contador-, Nibali, Porte 80: Aru, Bardet, Kruijswijk, Landa, Chaves 79: Majka+, Pinot, Poels, Zakarin+, Mollema, Rodriguez, Valverde, A.Yates 78: Van Garderen, S.Yates, ...
Therefore, i'd change some back up stats to balance the MON downgrades.
For example i'd push REC for Zakarin and Majka, TTR for Froome, decrease REC and ACC for Contador and something else that should balance the realism of final GC places.
matt17br wrote:
Those riders were unbeatable in their best respective seasons you just listed - I'd add 2012 Boonen for example. Froome this year is not unbeatable and he's just shown it - just like he did in the other WT stage races earlier on the year, whilst he only just gave up Tirreno to Nibali who also had one of his best years if not his best.
Sagan is also supposed not to be unbeatable. He's only unbeatable for the green jersey, but it's not like he dominates sprints, or easier hilly classics, or even cobbles. Yet, he is the rider with the highest average in the game, as well as the most well rounded, which means he has all the skills that it takes to win a green jersey with ease.
Froome is unbeatable and he shown it in Tour. Of course is he not unbeatable whole year round, nobody is, not even Eddy Merckx.
Sagan is the best cobbles rider in world, better than eg Kristoff and Degenkolb in sprint and yes best green jersey rider ever.
Valverde is a game killer in your db right now. He wins only La Flèche Wallonne in the real world.
Edit: Sagan is unbeatable individually, sometimes he becomes second because of miserable teammate and it is all against him.
matt17br wrote:
Those riders were unbeatable in their best respective seasons you just listed - I'd add 2012 Boonen for example. Froome this year is not unbeatable and he's just shown it - just like he did in the other WT stage races earlier on the year, whilst he only just gave up Tirreno to Nibali in 2013 who also had one of his best years if not his best.
Sagan is also supposed not to be unbeatable. He's only unbeatable for the green jersey, but it's not like he dominates sprints, or easier hilly classics, or even cobbles. Yet, he is the rider with the highest average in the game, as well as the most well rounded, which means he has all the skills that it takes to win a green jersey with ease.
Still he rarely takes it in the game, but that is more of a fault of AI.
I think you should admit that stats are not built to reflect reality, but to make the game most enjoyable.
I think we have to keep in mind, that the reason Froome is so good in the TDF, is largely because of his insanly strong team, that picks up any attacks on him.
He really wasn't that much better than the others in the mountains. Not once did he ride from them all and finished first on a MTF. I think that's worth remembering. I think equal MO stat with Quintana is fair.
Dusen wrote:
I think we have to keep in mind, that the reason Froome is so good in the TDF, is largely because of his insanly strong team, that picks up any attacks on him.
He really wasn't that much better than the others in the mountains. Not once did he ride from them all and finished first on a MTF. I think that's worth remembering. I think equal MO stat with Quintana is fair.
Froome won time upwards, down, straight and on time trial + Smashes all much more on Mont Ventoux, if idiots not stood in way. Every time he made difference self.
In Vuelta had Froome been in super shape since Dauphine and Quintana drive his best GT ever. Anyway lost Quintana in man vs man situations (15 stage was Froome alone vs Movistar and Tinkoff).
Dusen wrote:
I think we have to keep in mind, that the reason Froome is so good in the TDF, is largely because of his insanly strong team, that picks up any attacks on him.
He really wasn't that much better than the others in the mountains. Not once did he ride from them all and finished first on a MTF. I think that's worth remembering. I think equal MO stat with Quintana is fair.
Froome won time upwards, down, straight and on time trial + Smashes all much more on Mont Ventoux, if idiots not stood in way. Every time he made difference self.
In Vuelta had Froome been in super shape since Dauphine and Quintana drive his best GT ever. Anyway lost Quintana in man vs man situations (15 stage was Froome alone vs Movistar and Tinkoff).
I'am talking about this years TDF. He didn't ride from everyone on a single MTF. That's a fact.
Regarding the Vuelta if we just put aside stage 15 for argument sake, what about stage 8,10 and 20 (Quintana attacking away on the last hundred meters). Stage 8 and 10 he took down Froome big time, no discussion there. Not to mention stage 14 and 17 where Froome has more than enough with just hanging on Quintana's wheel.
Dusen wrote:
I'am talking about this years TDF. He didn't ride from everyone on a single MTF. That's a fact.
Exactly what he did on stage 8 and stage 17 together with Porte also on Mont Ventoux destroyed he Quintana.
If you rains all times only from all mountain stages together so won Froome.
Dusen wrote:
Regarding the Vuelta if we just put aside stage 15 for argument sake, what about stage 8,10 and 20 (Quintana attacking away on the last hundred meters). Stage 8 and 10 he took down Froome big time, no discussion there. Not to mention stage 14 and 17 where Froome has more than enough with just hanging on Quintana's wheel.
Froome won a mountain stage.
54 seconds yes.. How much was it he lost on time trial? Edited by Arberg27 on 19-09-2016 12:15
Dusen wrote:
I'am talking about this years TDF. He didn't ride from everyone on a single MTF. That's a fact.
Exactly what he did on stage 8 and stage 17 together with Porte also on Mont Ventoux destroyed he Quintana.
If you rains all times only from all mountain stages together so won Froome.
Dusen wrote:
Regarding the Vuelta if we just put aside stage 15 for argument sake, what about stage 8,10 and 20 (Quintana attacking away on the last hundred meters). Stage 8 and 10 he took down Froome big time, no discussion there. Not to mention stage 14 and 17 where Froome has more than enough with just hanging on Quintana's wheel.
Froome won a mountain stage.
54 seconds yes.. How much was it he lost on time trial?
Again you dive around my point. Froome didn't go by himself and put everyone in their plac in the TDF, NOT ONCE.
And Froome won a MTF, he did yes, but only because he was a faster finisher, Quintana was right in his wheel. And why are you talking about TT? This is about MO skill.
But this is the MO stat we are talking about here, not his TT or FL stat. Should Froome be equal to the best MO riders, yes he should, but giving him fx. 84 on MO and Quintana 83 just doesn't sit right with me.
Remember Tour of Catalunya and Tour of Romandie, where Quintana beat Froome with no problem. They deserve the same MO stat, Froome isn't a better climber and than Quintana, it's more the other way around I would say. Froome just has an insane MO team that controls everything in the TDF
Dusen wrote:
But this is the MO stat we are talking about here, not his TT or FL stat. Should Froome be equal to the best MO riders, yes he should, but giving him fx. 84 on MO and Quintana 83 just doesn't sit right with me.
Remember Tour of Catalunya and Tour of Romandie, where Quintana beat Froome with no problem. They deserve the same MO stat, Froome isn't a better climber and than Quintana, it's more the other way around I would say. Froome just has an insane MO team that controls everything in the TDF
Ok so the next post about Froome and Quintana stats will be deleted. This is enough shitposting for today. We won't change Froome and Quintana mountain stats under torture.
Dusen wrote:
But this is the MO stat we are talking about here, not his TT or FL stat. Should Froome be equal to the best MO riders, yes he should, but giving him fx. 84 on MO and Quintana 83 just doesn't sit right with me.
Remember Tour of Catalunya and Tour of Romandie, where Quintana beat Froome with no problem. They deserve the same MO stat, Froome isn't a better climber and than Quintana, it's more the other way around I would say. Froome just has an insane MO team that controls everything in the TDF
Dusen wrote:
But this is the MO stat we are talking about here, not his TT or FL stat. Should Froome be equal to the best MO riders, yes he should, but giving him fx. 84 on MO and Quintana 83 just doesn't sit right with me.
Remember Tour of Catalunya and Tour of Romandie, where Quintana beat Froome with no problem. They deserve the same MO stat, Froome isn't a better climber and than Quintana, it's more the other way around I would say. Froome just has an insane MO team that controls everything in the TDF
