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PCM.daily Projects WT Stat Discussion
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| matt17br |
Posted on 07-09-2016 12:49
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I have attached the DBs for the V1 to the first post, the 2015 NCs one AND the 2016 NCs ones, in case anyone wants to take a look at everything before the download is over.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 07-09-2016 15:59
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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The Long Awaited Summer 2016 Database
It has been a long wait be we’ve got there in the end, as the first major stats upgrade for every new edition of PCM takes us more time than normal. From a stats perspective it has been a real headache for us thanks to the new format of how the climbing matrix has changed in-game. For anybody that is still unaware (very few if any…) now sees the mtn stat as the principal stat for nearly all climbing, with hill now being relegated to that final uphill dash when it occurs. The format and to how good it actually is open to debate but for our existing gaming matrix it clearly was a no-go and totally incompatible. For it meant that a whole host of riders that were good hill climbers but much weaker mtn climbers would just not be able to compete anymore as they should, thus making the big GT riders the top dogs for nearly every kind of climbing race in general.
The fix to all this has come in the shape of DB team member Kentarus who created a formula where the RES stat would be drastically changed, in order to give hill climbers with much weaker mtn the ability to perform as they should. So the greater the difference between a rider’s hill and mtn stat (with a declared minimum difference) would receive this Res boost. So a rider with for example a 73 hill stat and a 61 mtn stat which is a big difference, would receive a bigger RES boost. What this now means is that when looking at the RES stat, it will have no great meaning in a logical manner that the other stats do, you now have to look at the RES stat as a ‘compensation stat’ when it comes to climbers with bigger differences between their mtn and hill stats. And for this reason you may see some strange riders near the top of the RES stat.
We have done some testing ourselves but it has been limited and in general looks ok, but this is the kind of tweak that could take months of playing by the community to really find out if it works or not and playing with all kinds of riders.
As for the stats themselves we’ve been working hard to make them as realistic as possible and we now have Kodman officially on-board and for those that aren’t aware his speciality is CT level and younger riders which he works with Croatia (check out their CT thread if you already haven’t) As for the main stats Quintana and Contador survived being reduced for already well explained reasons and despite Cavendish returning to form at the Tour we still felt that his 81/83 sprint/acc combo adequate enough for him to achieve this in-game if he was on form. Most of The Tour sprinting upgrades came with lesser riders like Laporte, McLay and Enger, while all the climbing stats as always have been carefully tweaked.
The Olympic RR was probably the easiest big race that I’ve ever done stats for as it really just came down to adjusting a few STA stats and improving some of those in the 60s who finished within a reasonable time of the winner. But the TT was the complete opposite and were changed several times before they looked right. The main problem is that there is no longer an ordered hierarchy, as the best TT rider which is probably Dumoulin is often out of sorts or injured, while Martin looks a shadow of his former self and Kiryenka seems to have forgotten what a TT is, admittedly we’ll have to wait until the WC TT to get the true picture.
The stats have been upgraded to include the first two weeks of the Vuelta and other current races as well right down to CT level. This is also a good opportunity to mention the huge amount of work that both Croatia and Kodman have put into younger and CT level riders and have added a huge amount of new riders to the DB as well.
As always the stats are brought to you by Myself, Croatia, Kodman and of course Matt who keeps and eye on everything.
Finally each member of the DB team have their own allocated tasks within the team and some are multi-taskers unlike myself and they all do a great job and they know who they are. But I would especially like to mention in terms of organization the effort that both Haasje and Matt put into these DB’s because without them to organize everything there would be no DB and they are constantly working to improve and maintain everything on a daily basis.
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| LuckyLukas |
Posted on 07-09-2016 17:46
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Under 23
Posts: 62
Joined: 29-06-2016
PCM$: 200.00
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Thanks for the great effort that you guys put in this DB.
I have one question regarding the climbing matrix. Besides the problem that the climbing stat was way to important in the hilly classics I noticed another problem with this matrix. In fact that riders with a low/medium mountain stat and a high hill stat can compete with the best climbers when it comes to mostly flat stages with a final steep 2-5 km climb (like many of this years vuelta stages).
The problem is that you can climb these mountains with an effort of 85-90 from the bottom to the top. And this effort is almost only using the hill stat.
Did you find a solution to fix this promblem as well? |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 08-09-2016 01:11
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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We're going to keep investigating, but the way the Cyanide system has been made makes it really hard to find solutions to everything 
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| Jorge14 |
Posted on 08-09-2016 09:29
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Stagiare
Posts: 184
Joined: 15-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Chaves to 80 Mountain or still to early to put Chavito on the 80? |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 08-09-2016 10:36
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Jorge14 wrote:
Chaves to 80 Mountain or still to early to put Chavito on the 80?
No, Zakarin is better, because Chaves have not won GT #PCM.daily Projects logic.
Contador 82 MO, 78 HI, 79 ACC, 77 END, 72 RES
LOOOOL better than Quintana LOOOOL
Edited by Arberg27 on 08-09-2016 10:42
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| matt17br |
Posted on 08-09-2016 10:41
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Jorge14 wrote:
Chaves to 80 Mountain or still to early to put Chavito on the 80?
No, Zakarin is better, because Chaves have not won GT #PCM.daily Projects logic.
Contador 82 mointain and 79 acc LOOOOL better than Quintana LOOOOL
What the fuck are you on about? 
I've even written here we were going to wait for the end of the Vuelta to put Chaves on 80 and why he's not 80 yet - acceleration - but you seem to ignore whatever comes from the team.
How is Contador better than Quintana in game exactly?
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 08-09-2016 10:43
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Jorge14 wrote:
Chaves to 80 Mountain or still to early to put Chavito on the 80?
No, Zakarin is better, because Chaves have not won GT #PCM.daily Projects logic.
Contador 82 mointain and 79 acc LOOOOL better than Quintana LOOOOL
What the fuck are you on about?
I've even written here we were going to wait for the end of the Vuelta to put Chaves on 80 and why he's not 80 yet - acceleration - but you seem to ignore whatever comes from the team.
How is Contador better than Quintana in game exactly?
You answer even to your question
82 MO, 78 HI, 79 ACC, 77 END, 72 RES >
83 MO, 77 HI, 76 ACC, 75 END, 71 RES |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 08-09-2016 11:03
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
matt17br wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Jorge14 wrote:
Chaves to 80 Mountain or still to early to put Chavito on the 80?
No, Zakarin is better, because Chaves have not won GT #PCM.daily Projects logic.
Contador 82 mointain and 79 acc LOOOOL better than Quintana LOOOOL
What the fuck are you on about?
I've even written here we were going to wait for the end of the Vuelta to put Chaves on 80 and why he's not 80 yet - acceleration - but you seem to ignore whatever comes from the team.
How is Contador better than Quintana in game exactly?
You answer even to your question
82 MO, 78 HI, 79 ACC, 77 END, 72 RES >
83 MO, 77 HI, 76 ACC, 75 END, 71 RES
3 points difference is different than 5 points difference. The difference between 83 and 82 mountain is also bigger than the difference between 80 and 79, in game. Plus you're not taking REC into account, where Nairo has a 4 points margin, and I won't even talk about how much better Quintana's domestiques are than Contador's.
It's not even sure we're gonna keep Contador on 82 mountain based on this Vuelta so calm down.
That said, I'm not sure why I'm even replying to you.
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 08-09-2016 11:18
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
matt17br wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Jorge14 wrote:
Chaves to 80 Mountain or still to early to put Chavito on the 80?
No, Zakarin is better, because Chaves have not won GT #PCM.daily Projects logic.
Contador 82 mointain and 79 acc LOOOOL better than Quintana LOOOOL
What the fuck are you on about?
I've even written here we were going to wait for the end of the Vuelta to put Chaves on 80 and why he's not 80 yet - acceleration - but you seem to ignore whatever comes from the team.
How is Contador better than Quintana in game exactly?
You answer even to your question
82 MO, 78 HI, 79 ACC, 77 END, 72 RES >
83 MO, 77 HI, 76 ACC, 75 END, 71 RES
3 points difference is different than 5 points difference. The difference between 83 and 82 mountain is also bigger than the difference between 80 and 79, in game. Plus you're not taking REC into account, where Nairo has a 4 points margin, and I won't even talk about how much better Quintana's domestiques are than Contador's.
It's not even sure we're gonna keep Contador on 82 mountain based on this Vuelta so calm down.
That said, I'm not sure why I'm even replying to you.
because youre a kindhearted soul with a lot of time for "special" children |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 17:38
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 08-09-2016 11:46
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
matt17br wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Jorge14 wrote:
Chaves to 80 Mountain or still to early to put Chavito on the 80?
No, Zakarin is better, because Chaves have not won GT #PCM.daily Projects logic.
Contador 82 mointain and 79 acc LOOOOL better than Quintana LOOOOL
What the fuck are you on about?
I've even written here we were going to wait for the end of the Vuelta to put Chaves on 80 and why he's not 80 yet - acceleration - but you seem to ignore whatever comes from the team.
How is Contador better than Quintana in game exactly?
You answer even to your question
82 MO, 78 HI, 79 ACC, 77 END, 72 RES >
83 MO, 77 HI, 76 ACC, 75 END, 71 RES
3 points difference is different than 5 points difference. The difference between 83 and 82 mountain is also bigger than the difference between 80 and 79, in game. Plus you're not taking REC into account, where Nairo has a 4 points margin, and I won't even talk about how much better Quintana's domestiques are than Contador's.
It's not even sure we're gonna keep Contador on 82 mountain based on this Vuelta so calm down.
That said, I'm not sure why I'm even replying to you.
After doping quarantine Contador has problems on hill and mountain except in 2014. Rodriguez in 12, Froome, Quintana, Rodriguez in 13, Froome, Quintana, Valverde, Landa in 15, Froome, Quintana in 16.
But I agree in Contador`s time trial stats, after doping quarantine many very good time trial. Example won he Giro 15 and Vuelta 14 on ITT.
Also agree Contador FTR atats. He won Vuelta 12 on it and did same number the other day 
Edited by Arberg27 on 09-09-2016 09:15
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| marcoplv95 |
Posted on 08-09-2016 13:07
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Stagiare
Posts: 210
Joined: 18-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Which is the fastest way to edit your DB? I'd change some values
Anyways i'd suggest a little push to Ulissi's Stats (76 AVG is enough underrated :\ ), he's having his best season after 2013:
Take a look here: https://www.procyc...sis=Filter
And also Alberto Bettiol totally deserves an upgrade!
Edited by marcoplv95 on 08-09-2016 15:26
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| Selwink |
Posted on 08-09-2016 13:16
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8856
Joined: 17-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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The easiest way to edit a DB is with an editor like Lachi's Editor or Fast Editor, which can be found in the Downloads section of the site.
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| marcoplv95 |
Posted on 08-09-2016 13:24
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Stagiare
Posts: 210
Joined: 18-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Selwink wrote:
The easiest way to edit a DB is with an editor like Lachi's Editor or Fast Editor, which can be found in the Downloads section of the site.
I already use Lachi's but i think it's too complex, i wanted a faster way.
I'll try Fast Editor, thanks
EDIT: Perfect, this is what i was searching for, thank you!
Edited by marcoplv95 on 08-09-2016 13:49
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| Kiserlovski01 |
Posted on 09-09-2016 22:46
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4054
Joined: 26-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Definitely agree on this, came 3rd in Tour de Pologne, second in the Bretagne Classic Ouest-France and 4th today in Québec. Deserves a stamina / hills update IMO.
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 10-09-2016 11:44
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Froome 78 TT and 77 REC ??? Seriously ? Is it a joke ? |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 10-09-2016 11:53
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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It's possible we're going to put Froome on 79 TT. Recuperation, as we explained countless times, is a stat we redid in order to make it useful. In order to do so, we increased the differences between GC riders.
Also, you may want to try to be less obnoxious when showing your concerns about stats.
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| marcoplv95 |
Posted on 10-09-2016 12:10
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Stagiare
Posts: 210
Joined: 18-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
Also, you may want to try to be less obnoxious when showing your concerns about stats.
That works, as i see he's Obnoxious and gets answers, instead i don't |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 10-09-2016 12:12
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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That works, as i see he's Obnoxious and gets answers, instead i don't Sad
What did I miss?
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| marcoplv95 |
Posted on 10-09-2016 12:28
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Stagiare
Posts: 210
Joined: 18-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
That works, as i see he's Obnoxious and gets answers, instead i don't Sad
What did I miss?
"Anyways i'd suggest a little push to Ulissi's Stats (76 AVG is enough underrated :\ ), he's having his best season after 2013:
Take a look here: https://www.procyc...
And also Alberto Bettiol totally deserves an upgrade!" |
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