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News in August
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 03-08-2016 16:17
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Team Leader
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ivaneurope wrote:
emre99 wrote:
@ivaneurope, Tour of Turkey is a prep race for giro, especially for sprinters where romandie usually has only 1 or none flat stage.
And what rider type wins the Giro - climbers.
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| fjhoekie |
Posted on 03-08-2016 16:20
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4476
Joined: 25-07-2010
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ivaneurope wrote:
emre99 wrote:
@ivaneurope, Tour of Turkey is a prep race for giro, especially for sprinters where romandie usually has only 1 or none flat stage.
And what rider type wins the Giro - climbers.
MOAR HILLS! And I thought Riis alone was bad enough...
Turkey is a great race for sprinters who also like to peak at big races like the Giro, a stage win is just as prestigious for them as a podium is for the climbers, who in my eyes got too much attention, just like attacking players do in football. There would be no good racing with mountains and climbers only, or strikers in football. We need more lines of play, the midfield, defenders and goalkeeper, represented in cycling as the baroudeurs and sprinters mainly. Romandie is too hard as a prep race for them.
Does not mean I like the Tour of Turkey though, but the weather is generally nice. 
Manager of Team Popo4Ever p/b Morshynska in the PCM.Daily Man-Game |
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| emre99 |
Posted on 03-08-2016 16:51
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3332
Joined: 19-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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ivaneurope wrote:
emre99 wrote:
@ivaneurope, Tour of Turkey is a prep race for giro, especially for sprinters where romandie usually has only 1 or none flat stage.
And bit off-topic, but could affect Turkish cycling and the place of Tour of Turkey in the UCI calendar at all as well - Erdogan is reportedly removing alleged pro-Gülen directors in some sports like football. And it's common practice to suspend any sporting activities if it's proven that there's an governmental interference.
Well no turkish team/organisator exist in the scene just Torku, and Torku has nothing to with Gülen. But it is true in football.
#FREELANDA #FREELIA MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
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''I call you the stage god. You are the stage god.'' -baseballover312, 15.07.2016
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| emre99 |
Posted on 03-08-2016 17:19
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3332
Joined: 19-07-2012
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ivaneurope wrote:
emre99 wrote:
@ivaneurope, Tour of Turkey is a prep race for giro, especially for sprinters where romandie usually has only 1 or none flat stage.
And what rider type wins the Giro - climbers. And mind you that Romandie is taking place in the Swiss Alps which is as close conditions as you can get in the Giro. And not many GT GC riders have raced in ToT - Adam Yates is perhaps is the only big name that have won it. Don't think something will change and suddenly the teams will start to care.
Every WT race have a financial upgrade and great reputation, think, this race is in the highest status possible, and UCI promoted the race within a rule, so you still dont think the rider reputation will not increase; when there are points which will be given into WT rankings and will get the same points as Tour of California (such popularism, wow) and also the Prize Money which will be much more increased than the last year.
EDIT: anything you want to discuss i am not open for it. (just beacuse all the bulgarians doesnt like ANYTHING that is related to Turkey, Ottoman Empire.)
#FREELANDA #FREELIA MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
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Thread of the Week : Tour of California 2014
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PCM.daily Awards : 2 Nominee 0 Award
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1 like 1 girlfriend
''I call you the stage god. You are the stage god.'' -baseballover312, 15.07.2016
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 03-08-2016 17:40
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2933
Joined: 09-05-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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emre99 wrote:
ivaneurope wrote:
emre99 wrote:
@ivaneurope, Tour of Turkey is a prep race for giro, especially for sprinters where romandie usually has only 1 or none flat stage.
And what rider type wins the Giro - climbers. And mind you that Romandie is taking place in the Swiss Alps which is as close conditions as you can get in the Giro. And not many GT GC riders have raced in ToT - Adam Yates is perhaps is the only big name that have won it. Don't think something will change and suddenly the teams will start to care.
Every WT race have a financial upgrade and great reputation, think, this race is in the highest status possible, and UCI promoted the race within a rule, so you still dont think the rider reputation will not increase; when there are points which will be given into WT rankings and will get the same points as Tour of California (such popularism, wow) and also the Prize Money which will be much more increased than the last year.
EDIT: anything you want to discuss i am not open for it. (just beacuse all the bulgarians doesnt like ANYTHING that is related to Turkey, Ottoman Empire.)
Let's have a look at which races it clashes - La Flèche Wallonne and Liège-Bastogne-Liège. Many Ardennes Classics riders tend to be Stage Race specialist like Valverde, Dan Martin, Kreuziger etc.. Most of them would choose LFW and LBL since they are strong in the Ardennes
About the added thing - that really hurts man. Look, this whole discussion has nothing to do with the perception that we (Bulgaria) hate anything related to Turkey due to some bad blood in the past. What I mean is that just because Turkey will have WT race do not expect that Sagan, Froome, Nibali, Contador, Quintana etc. will race there from get go. In the first few years it's not expected to have the biggest elite of them all - even the Canada one-day races needed some time to establish themselves.
EDIT: If you have some problem with me, the forum is not the place. I thought we have freedom to expression. I just expressed my oppinion about the chances Tour of Turkey to have the star factor to be legit competition to other more established WT races
EDIT 2: I do not wish to continue this discussion anymore. I feel misunderstood and disgusted by the attitude of some. Bottom line - ToT is WT. THE END
Edited by ivaneurope on 03-08-2016 17:56
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| emre99 |
Posted on 03-08-2016 18:00
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3332
Joined: 19-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Well, If you came with the second paragraph at the start nothing would happen  . I want you to check the last year lineup, that the race was worse than half of 2.1 races, for a race that has a potential.
#FREELANDA #FREELIA MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
emre99's stages
Thread of the Week : Tour of California 2014
-Official PCM World Cup 2016, 10th best keirin player in the world
PCM.daily Awards : 2 Nominee 0 Award
Daily Song Contest WINNER! With Foals - Mountain at my Gates with Greece!
1 like 1 girlfriend
''I call you the stage god. You are the stage god.'' -baseballover312, 15.07.2016
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 03-08-2016 19:55
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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deek12345 wrote:
she missed 3 tests in 1 year .
BULLSHIT
Tyler Hamilton's book The Secret Race... be vague on your whereabouts, change your location at the last minute.
thanks for book hint. I really starting to like them. They are bit subjective but we will get some good insight. Reading now Froome book. Damn he and Brad had terrible fight there inside the team. And he is like Lance..it all about TdF
I did not like Brailsford before that book..even less after that. Probably great manager with money and power games.
And started to like riders like Mocoutie and specially Sastre even more.
Edited by Guido Mukk on 03-08-2016 20:47
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| whitejersey |
Posted on 03-08-2016 21:03
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2905
Joined: 07-08-2011
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THe secret race is a great book.
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 03-08-2016 21:53
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7694
Joined: 18-08-2007
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ivaneurope wrote:
Let's have a look at which races it clashes - La Flèche Wallonne and Liège-Bastogne-Liège. Many Ardennes Classics riders tend to be Stage Race specialist like Valverde, Dan Martin, Kreuziger etc.. Most of them would choose LFW and LBL since they are strong in the Ardennes
You might wanna go back up and read fjhoekie's post. He explained how sprinters and barodeurs could use this as Giro-prep, and how it's not always about GT-contenders.
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 03-08-2016 22:12
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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ivaneurope wrote:
emre99 wrote:
ivaneurope wrote:
emre99 wrote:
@ivaneurope, Tour of Turkey is a prep race for giro, especially for sprinters where romandie usually has only 1 or none flat stage.
And what rider type wins the Giro - climbers. And mind you that Romandie is taking place in the Swiss Alps which is as close conditions as you can get in the Giro. And not many GT GC riders have raced in ToT - Adam Yates is perhaps is the only big name that have won it. Don't think something will change and suddenly the teams will start to care.
Every WT race have a financial upgrade and great reputation, think, this race is in the highest status possible, and UCI promoted the race within a rule, so you still dont think the rider reputation will not increase; when there are points which will be given into WT rankings and will get the same points as Tour of California (such popularism, wow) and also the Prize Money which will be much more increased than the last year.
EDIT: anything you want to discuss i am not open for it. (just beacuse all the bulgarians doesnt like ANYTHING that is related to Turkey, Ottoman Empire.)
Let's have a look at which races it clashes - La Flèche Wallonne and Liège-Bastogne-Liège. Many Ardennes Classics riders tend to be Stage Race specialist like Valverde, Dan Martin, Kreuziger etc.. Most of them would choose LFW and LBL since they are strong in the Ardennes
About the added thing - that really hurts man. Look, this whole discussion has nothing to do with the perception that we (Bulgaria) hate anything related to Turkey due to some bad blood in the past. What I mean is that just because Turkey will have WT race do not expect that Sagan, Froome, Nibali, Contador, Quintana etc. will race there from get go. In the first few years it's not expected to have the biggest elite of them all - even the Canada one-day races needed some time to establish themselves.
EDIT: If you have some problem with me, the forum is not the place. I thought we have freedom to expression. I just expressed my oppinion about the chances Tour of Turkey to have the star factor to be legit competition to other more established WT races
EDIT 2: I do not wish to continue this discussion anymore. I feel misunderstood and disgusted by the attitude of some. Bottom line - ToT is WT. THE END
Good post Ivan. Hopefully much superior races like Romandie and Trentino will stay the same. Tour of Turkey was good as it was, as was Cali, as was Qatar. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 00:16
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| Luxemburger |
Posted on 04-08-2016 10:22
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Protected Rider
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I can imagine that some worse WT teams will use Turkey as easy-pointer, with less concurrence in the first years it'll be easy for them to gain WT points then.
Kirchen's second account according to Spilak23, 21-07-2016 17:16
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 04-08-2016 10:28
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
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So how will the classification work then, will Turkey give the same points as Dauphiné or Tirreno? Surely they'll have to split that like they did with the classics?
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 04-08-2016 10:30
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
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Ollfardh wrote:
So how will the classification work then, will Turkey give the same points as Dauphiné or Tirreno? Surely they'll have to split that like they did with the classics?
As far as I know, shitty races like Tour de Pologne gives the same amount of points as the most prestigiuos one weekers, so it will probably be the same. |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 04-08-2016 10:30
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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With the new races, they surely will widen the “5 riders count“ rule in calcutating the wt team points?
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| emre99 |
Posted on 04-08-2016 10:36
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3332
Joined: 19-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
So how will the classification work then, will Turkey, Qatar, Abu Dhabi give the same points as Dauphiné or Tirreno? Surely they'll have to split that like they did with the classics?
I dont think so, even right now Pologne doesnt get the same points at Dauphine / Paris Nice. They get similar. (https://inrng.com/2016/01/new-uci-rank...gs-system/)
So I think new added WT races will join the Pologne/Pais-Vasco group.
#FREELANDA #FREELIA MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
emre99's stages
Thread of the Week : Tour of California 2014
-Official PCM World Cup 2016, 10th best keirin player in the world
PCM.daily Awards : 2 Nominee 0 Award
Daily Song Contest WINNER! With Foals - Mountain at my Gates with Greece!
1 like 1 girlfriend
''I call you the stage god. You are the stage god.'' -baseballover312, 15.07.2016
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 04-08-2016 11:56
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Kreuziger confirmed his schedule for rest of the year - no Vuelta, just classics.
28.8. GP de Plouay Ouest-France (Bretagne Classic)
8.9. GP Cycliste de Québec
11.9. GP Cycliste de Montréal
27.9. Tre Valli Varesine
28.9. Milano - Torino
1.10. Il Lombardia
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 04-08-2016 12:23
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3440
Joined: 09-10-2008
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With regard to the new World Tour races the UCI made this press release in June:
"For new UCI WorldTour events, participation rules which will ensure that a minimum of 10 UCI WorldTeams take part will be proposed by the UCI for approval at the next meeting of the PCC"
So depending on this being approved not every WT team has to ride and the races may in actual fact be very similar as a result. This basically leaves the UCI plugging holes in the calendar and promoting some of the better races out there (I love OHN!).
So a lot of it could be a label change but admittedly with WT points being scored (but how much they are worth to teams and how much fans care about this is debatable).
Also (at least the above board) race fees aren't a great source of income for the UCI no matter how well funded these races are - in fact fees failed to cover the associated costs of running races in 2015. That's unless they do a dodgy lets charge them 10x the amount of anyone else to Qatar and Abu Dhabi like they did with Beijing - unlikely as it's not McQuaid???
All the detail can be found here https://inrng.com/...more-29597 |
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 04-08-2016 13:17
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2933
Joined: 09-05-2011
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Continental divide: changes always have unintended consequences and one element at the margin here is the survival of UCI Continental teams. The Tour of California’s promotion could mean all the World Tour teams ride leaving only few places left for local invites from the lower tier Continental teams in the USA. These teams lose TV airtime and to cut things short their reason for existing: would Jelly Belly and Axeon Hagen Bermans stick or fold? A price to pay in order to grant the US a World Tour race? Perhaps but the solution is to have more US races on TV although easier said than done given the massive costs involved, it’s estimated the now defunct USA Pro Challenge in Colorado was costing close to $1 million a day to stage.
The issue with adding California, Turkey, the Middle East races to the WT is that it will essentially hurt the 3rd division teams like Axeon, Torku and SkyDive Dubai. There are rarely any other races in the USA and Middle East. The only solution is IMO to apply for PCT license, but at the moment the 2nd tier is too big.
The exception rule of not inviting all WT teams is a bit cheesy IMO - on one hand it will allow the smaller teams to keep their logistics and travel costs down, but on the other hand the new races, which are going to be WT, would be treated like any other HC race.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 04-08-2016 13:47
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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The cancellation of USA Pro Cycling Challenge only because the sponsor family stopped backing it up, shows how tough the racing organization business is, even in the USA. PR impact of 130 million is predicted, yet no one was found to take over.. (It's even worse for spanish, italian and french race organizations imo due to economic constraints..)
I too think that this will hurt the continental scene a lot in the coming years if there won't be substitions coming up for the teams in time.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 04-08-2016 13:51
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
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Shonak wrote:
The cancellation of USA Pro Cycling Challenge only because the sponsor family stopped backing it up, shows how tough the racing organization business is, even in the USA. PR impact of 130 million is predicted, yet no one was found to take over.. (It's even worse for spanish, italian and french race organizations imo due to economic constraints..)
I too think that this will hurt the continental scene a lot in the coming years if there won't be substitions coming up for the teams in time.
I´m not sure...maybe the UCI will allow the organistors to give away wildcards to CT teams...Otherwise races like Turkey won´t even get full startlists. And the difference is not far to Tour Down Under inviting UniSA
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