Let us not forget that a single whereabouts violation can lead, by itself, to a 12 month minimum ban (24month max). And that a second can lead to a 4 year ban alone. This is something that a lot of ADA's don't quite seem to get and frankly we should have a lot more banned riders than we do, because i can guarantee the number of athletes who've missed one test is much bigger than we think.
ringo182 wrote:
[quote] what the tester was else to do when entry is forbidden and the athlete does not react..[quote]
Ask the hotel staff to go and get her?
... and give her time to react. It's fundamental for doping testing that athletes DO NOT know prior to the test when they will be tested, not even a minute before, and when the doping tester is with the athlete they are not to leave sight at any point.
When hotel staff pick up her up at 6am and tell her a guy wants to see her, Armistead knows what's going on and who it is.
It's really not difficult to keep your phone on.
Yes, it's super bureaucratic mindset that follow this logic but they are here for a reason since the sport needs strict treatment. It's a child that will never learn.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
jt1109 wrote:
3: It's now not possible in UKAD at least to change your location from a 48 hour deadline hence the violation for a sick family member and not changing her location when she knew beforehand
If there is an unplanned, last minute emergency change, you may text (if you have activated this function in your ADAMS profile) or email () up to one minute before the start of your specified time slot. Patterns of last-minute Whereabouts updates may be investigated.
ringo182 wrote:
[quote] what the tester was else to do when entry is forbidden and the athlete does not react..[quote]
Ask the hotel staff to go and get her?
That's no way to work. Athletes/teams should inform the hotel manager that doping tests can be possible and that people should be allowed to knock on her door. Otherwise you leave too much room for abuse.
Hotel staff cannot be forced to cooperate with doping officials, so if the rider (aka, the paying customer) tells them not to allow visitors, the official can't do anything about that. The staff will tell him that they don't want to disturb their customer so early (which probably happened in this case) and all he can do is sit and wait.
If he is forced to announce his job at the reception, the rider can disappear "on a training run" by a backdoor before he's anywhere near her room, or is given some time to manipulate the results. Again, no way to work.
I don't know the ins and out of the rules regarding the out of competition testing. But CAS do and they have overruled the decision so this whole discussion is mute. Armistead obviously didn't break the rules otherwise the decision would not have been overturned.
jt1109 wrote:
3: It's now not possible in UKAD at least to change your location from a 48 hour deadline hence the violation for a sick family member and not changing her location when she knew beforehand
If there is an unplanned, last minute emergency change, you may text (if you have activated this function in your ADAMS profile) or email () up to one minute before the start of your specified time slot. Patterns of last-minute Whereabouts updates may be investigated.
ringo182 wrote:
[quote] what the tester was else to do when entry is forbidden and the athlete does not react..[quote]
Ask the hotel staff to go and get her?
That's no way to work. Athletes/teams should inform the hotel manager that doping tests can be possible and that people should be allowed to knock on her door. Otherwise you leave too much room for abuse.
Hotel staff cannot be forced to cooperate with doping officials, so if the rider (aka, the paying customer) tells them not to allow visitors, the official can't do anything about that. The staff will tell him that they don't want to disturb their customer so early (which probably happened in this case) and all he can do is sit and wait.
If he is forced to announce his job at the reception, the rider can disappear "on a training run" by a backdoor before he's anywhere near her room, or is given some time to manipulate the results. Again, no way to work.
Sounds like a bit of a security risk to me. Someone might show up, refuse to tell you who they are but you have to take them wherever they want to go in the hotel. If that's how it works I could get into any athletes hotel room.
Surely these testers get turned away from hotels and other places numerous times. They must have a better back up plan then "giving her phone a try"
ringo182 wrote:
[quote] what the tester was else to do when entry is forbidden and the athlete does not react..[quote]
Ask the hotel staff to go and get her?
That's no way to work. Athletes/teams should inform the hotel manager that doping tests can be possible and that people should be allowed to knock on her door. Otherwise you leave too much room for abuse.
Hotel staff cannot be forced to cooperate with doping officials, so if the rider (aka, the paying customer) tells them not to allow visitors, the official can't do anything about that. The staff will tell him that they don't want to disturb their customer so early (which probably happened in this case) and all he can do is sit and wait.
If he is forced to announce his job at the reception, the rider can disappear "on a training run" by a backdoor before he's anywhere near her room, or is given some time to manipulate the results. Again, no way to work.
Sounds like a bit of a security risk to me. Someone might show up, refuse to tell you who they are but you have to take them wherever they want to go in the hotel. If that's how it works I could get into any athletes hotel room.
Surely these testers get turned away from hotels and other places numerous times. They must have a better back up plan then "giving her phone a try"
Such as? In this case, the official tried the hotel and her phone. What other option is there? If the official can't reach her despite his best efforts, it should be a missed test.
ringo182 wrote:
[quote] what the tester was else to do when entry is forbidden and the athlete does not react..[quote]
Ask the hotel staff to go and get her?
That's no way to work. Athletes/teams should inform the hotel manager that doping tests can be possible and that people should be allowed to knock on her door. Otherwise you leave too much room for abuse.
Hotel staff cannot be forced to cooperate with doping officials, so if the rider (aka, the paying customer) tells them not to allow visitors, the official can't do anything about that. The staff will tell him that they don't want to disturb their customer so early (which probably happened in this case) and all he can do is sit and wait.
If he is forced to announce his job at the reception, the rider can disappear "on a training run" by a backdoor before he's anywhere near her room, or is given some time to manipulate the results. Again, no way to work.
Sounds like a bit of a security risk to me. Someone might show up, refuse to tell you who they are but you have to take them wherever they want to go in the hotel. If that's how it works I could get into any athletes hotel room.
Surely these testers get turned away from hotels and other places numerous times. They must have a better back up plan then "giving her phone a try"
Such as? In this case, the official tried the hotel and her phone. What other option is there? If the official can't reach her despite his best efforts, it should be a missed test.
Phone her team manager? Phone her agent. Phone her sports national governing body? Just wait in the lobby. At the end of the day if it's their policy not to tell hotels who they are then they should be ready to be refused entry.
They are a professional body and their tactics for getting hold of atheletes are the same as me when I was 15 and I went to call for my mate round his house. His mom says he's not there so I try his phone. He doesn't answer, oh well, that's all I can do!?!?!
Obviously it shouldn't count as a missed test otherwise she would be banned at this moment
ringo182 wrote:
[quote] what the tester was else to do when entry is forbidden and the athlete does not react..[quote]
Ask the hotel staff to go and get her?
That's no way to work. Athletes/teams should inform the hotel manager that doping tests can be possible and that people should be allowed to knock on her door. Otherwise you leave too much room for abuse.
Hotel staff cannot be forced to cooperate with doping officials, so if the rider (aka, the paying customer) tells them not to allow visitors, the official can't do anything about that. The staff will tell him that they don't want to disturb their customer so early (which probably happened in this case) and all he can do is sit and wait.
If he is forced to announce his job at the reception, the rider can disappear "on a training run" by a backdoor before he's anywhere near her room, or is given some time to manipulate the results. Again, no way to work.
Sounds like a bit of a security risk to me. Someone might show up, refuse to tell you who they are but you have to take them wherever they want to go in the hotel. If that's how it works I could get into any athletes hotel room.
Surely these testers get turned away from hotels and other places numerous times. They must have a better back up plan then "giving her phone a try"
Such as? In this case, the official tried the hotel and her phone. What other option is there? If the official can't reach her despite his best efforts, it should be a missed test.
Phone her team manager? Phone her agent. Phone her sports national governing body? Just wait in the lobby. At the end of the day if it's their policy not to tell hotels who they are then they should be ready to be refused entry.
They are a professional body and their tactics for getting hold of atheletes are the same as me when I was 15 and I went to call for my mate round his house. His mom says he's not there so I try his phone. He doesn't answer, oh well, that's all I can do!?!?!
Obviously it shouldn't count as a missed test otherwise she would be banned at this moment
Again, this gives the rider time to cover up if he was doing something illegal. I mean, if you had to phone Bruyneel because you couldn't reach Lance, would he just say "np, Lance will be down in two minutes"? Of course not, he would say "Oh my, I have no idea where Lance could be. I'll go find him right away! In the mean time, have a few drinks in the hotel bar, put it on my tab!"
I think you're being very naive here, this system will only work if the doping officials have immediate access to the riders, otherwise they could just call in the day before that they'll be visiting the next day.
Ollfardh wrote:
Such as? In this case, the official tried the hotel and her phone. What other option is there? If the official can't reach her despite his best efforts, it should be a missed test.
Phone her team manager? Phone her agent. Phone her sports national governing body? Just wait in the lobby. At the end of the day if it's their policy not to tell hotels who they are then they should be ready to be refused entry.
These things are not even close to being a option. Call the team manager, you are funny... "hello, I am doping tester, I would like to test your athlete, could you call her, but please don't tell her it's about a doping test.."
How about Armistead makes sure that the hotel staff knows that doping tests can happen? Athletes have to make sure they can be reached. It's their responsibility if they want to compete in this sport professionally.
Wait in lobby lol
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
jt1109 wrote:
3: It's now not possible in UKAD at least to change your location from a 48 hour deadline hence the violation for a sick family member and not changing her location when she knew beforehand
If there is an unplanned, last minute emergency change, you may text (if you have activated this function in your ADAMS profile) or email () up to one minute before the start of your specified time slot. Patterns of last-minute Whereabouts updates may be investigated.
Again: If doping controls would work on the premise that the athletes can determine when and where they will be tested, we would have no positive test results at all. For doping control to work they need to be able to catch the athletes when they are still glowing. This can only happen when they have access at all time to the athletes.. even when at 6am in the morning when their phone is silent lol. Any notification just minutes before, or not even a clear sight during the doping testing, can alter the test results and give athletes a chance to manipulate in theory. To fault the tester for lazy behavior is just bizarre when it's the athletes responsibilty.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
ringo182 wrote:
[quote] what the tester was else to do when entry is forbidden and the athlete does not react..[quote]
Ask the hotel staff to go and get her?
That's no way to work. Athletes/teams should inform the hotel manager that doping tests can be possible and that people should be allowed to knock on her door. Otherwise you leave too much room for abuse.
Hotel staff cannot be forced to cooperate with doping officials, so if the rider (aka, the paying customer) tells them not to allow visitors, the official can't do anything about that. The staff will tell him that they don't want to disturb their customer so early (which probably happened in this case) and all he can do is sit and wait.
If he is forced to announce his job at the reception, the rider can disappear "on a training run" by a backdoor before he's anywhere near her room, or is given some time to manipulate the results. Again, no way to work.
Sounds like a bit of a security risk to me. Someone might show up, refuse to tell you who they are but you have to take them wherever they want to go in the hotel. If that's how it works I could get into any athletes hotel room.
Surely these testers get turned away from hotels and other places numerous times. They must have a better back up plan then "giving her phone a try"
Such as? In this case, the official tried the hotel and her phone. What other option is there? If the official can't reach her despite his best efforts, it should be a missed test.
Phone her team manager? Phone her agent. Phone her sports national governing body? Just wait in the lobby. At the end of the day if it's their policy not to tell hotels who they are then they should be ready to be refused entry.
They are a professional body and their tactics for getting hold of atheletes are the same as me when I was 15 and I went to call for my mate round his house. His mom says he's not there so I try his phone. He doesn't answer, oh well, that's all I can do!?!?!
Obviously it shouldn't count as a missed test otherwise she would be banned at this moment
Again, this gives the rider time to cover up if he was doing something illegal. I mean, if you had to phone Bruyneel because you couldn't reach Lance, would he just say "np, Lance will be down in two minutes"? Of course not, he would say "Oh my, I have no idea where Lance could be. I'll go find him right away! In the mean time, have a few drinks in the hotel bar, put it on my tab!"
I think you're being very naive here, this system will only work if the doping officials have immediate access to the riders, otherwise they could just call in the day before that they'll be visiting the next day.
And your being very cynical to assume that every cyclist is cheating and has something to cover. Sometimes genuine admin errors or acts of god will prevent an athlete being where the testers think they should be. Hence the 3 strike system.
There is obviously no perfect system. Especially if the testers refuse to say who they are. Why couldn't the tester say "she's not available now, she has 1 hour to get here otherwise it is a missed test". Then there would be no excuse for missing it. Obviously they could take masking agents but they would be so new in the system they would show up more easily.
ringo182 wrote:
[quote] what the tester was else to do when entry is forbidden and the athlete does not react..[quote]
Ask the hotel staff to go and get her?
That's no way to work. Athletes/teams should inform the hotel manager that doping tests can be possible and that people should be allowed to knock on her door. Otherwise you leave too much room for abuse.
Hotel staff cannot be forced to cooperate with doping officials, so if the rider (aka, the paying customer) tells them not to allow visitors, the official can't do anything about that. The staff will tell him that they don't want to disturb their customer so early (which probably happened in this case) and all he can do is sit and wait.
If he is forced to announce his job at the reception, the rider can disappear "on a training run" by a backdoor before he's anywhere near her room, or is given some time to manipulate the results. Again, no way to work.
Sounds like a bit of a security risk to me. Someone might show up, refuse to tell you who they are but you have to take them wherever they want to go in the hotel. If that's how it works I could get into any athletes hotel room.
Surely these testers get turned away from hotels and other places numerous times. They must have a better back up plan then "giving her phone a try"
Such as? In this case, the official tried the hotel and her phone. What other option is there? If the official can't reach her despite his best efforts, it should be a missed test.
Phone her team manager? Phone her agent. Phone her sports national governing body? Just wait in the lobby. At the end of the day if it's their policy not to tell hotels who they are then they should be ready to be refused entry.
They are a professional body and their tactics for getting hold of atheletes are the same as me when I was 15 and I went to call for my mate round his house. His mom says he's not there so I try his phone. He doesn't answer, oh well, that's all I can do!?!?!
Obviously it shouldn't count as a missed test otherwise she would be banned at this moment
Again, this gives the rider time to cover up if he was doing something illegal. I mean, if you had to phone Bruyneel because you couldn't reach Lance, would he just say "np, Lance will be down in two minutes"? Of course not, he would say "Oh my, I have no idea where Lance could be. I'll go find him right away! In the mean time, have a few drinks in the hotel bar, put it on my tab!"
I think you're being very naive here, this system will only work if the doping officials have immediate access to the riders, otherwise they could just call in the day before that they'll be visiting the next day.
And your being very cynical to assume that every cyclist is cheating and has something to cover. Sometimes genuine admin errors or acts of god will prevent an athlete being where the testers think they should be. Hence the 3 strike system.
There is obviously no perfect system. Especially if the testers refuse to say who they are. Why couldn't the tester say "she's not available now, she has 1 hour to get here otherwise it is a missed test". Then there would be no excuse for missing it. Obviously they could take masking agents but they would be so new in the system they would show up more easily.
Where did I say every cyclist is cheating and has something to cover? They're not, in case I needed to stress that. But those who do, need to be caught. And that's why this is needed, even if you have to give innocent riders extra work because of that.
The system is good as it is and for me, that's a missed test. If that's the third one, she should get a suspension. If she wins the gold in Rio, it will always be tainted medal (and cycling does not need another one after Vino 2012).
ringo182 wrote:
[quote] what the tester was else to do when entry is forbidden and the athlete does not react..[quote]
Ask the hotel staff to go and get her?
That's no way to work. Athletes/teams should inform the hotel manager that doping tests can be possible and that people should be allowed to knock on her door. Otherwise you leave too much room for abuse.
Hotel staff cannot be forced to cooperate with doping officials, so if the rider (aka, the paying customer) tells them not to allow visitors, the official can't do anything about that. The staff will tell him that they don't want to disturb their customer so early (which probably happened in this case) and all he can do is sit and wait.
If he is forced to announce his job at the reception, the rider can disappear "on a training run" by a backdoor before he's anywhere near her room, or is given some time to manipulate the results. Again, no way to work.
Sounds like a bit of a security risk to me. Someone might show up, refuse to tell you who they are but you have to take them wherever they want to go in the hotel. If that's how it works I could get into any athletes hotel room.
Surely these testers get turned away from hotels and other places numerous times. They must have a better back up plan then "giving her phone a try"
Such as? In this case, the official tried the hotel and her phone. What other option is there? If the official can't reach her despite his best efforts, it should be a missed test.
Phone her team manager? Phone her agent. Phone her sports national governing body? Just wait in the lobby. At the end of the day if it's their policy not to tell hotels who they are then they should be ready to be refused entry.
They are a professional body and their tactics for getting hold of atheletes are the same as me when I was 15 and I went to call for my mate round his house. His mom says he's not there so I try his phone. He doesn't answer, oh well, that's all I can do!?!?!
Obviously it shouldn't count as a missed test otherwise she would be banned at this moment
Again, this gives the rider time to cover up if he was doing something illegal. I mean, if you had to phone Bruyneel because you couldn't reach Lance, would he just say "np, Lance will be down in two minutes"? Of course not, he would say "Oh my, I have no idea where Lance could be. I'll go find him right away! In the mean time, have a few drinks in the hotel bar, put it on my tab!"
I think you're being very naive here, this system will only work if the doping officials have immediate access to the riders, otherwise they could just call in the day before that they'll be visiting the next day.
And your being very cynical to assume that every cyclist is cheating and has something to cover. Sometimes genuine admin errors or acts of god will prevent an athlete being where the testers think they should be. Hence the 3 strike system.
There is obviously no perfect system. Especially if the testers refuse to say who they are. Why couldn't the tester say "she's not available now, she has 1 hour to get here otherwise it is a missed test". Then there would be no excuse for missing it. Obviously they could take masking agents but they would be so new in the system they would show up more easily.
Where did I say every cyclist is cheating and has something to cover? They're not, in case I needed to stress that. But those who do, need to be caught. And that's why this is needed, even if you have to give innocent riders extra work because of that.
The system is good as it is and for me, that's a missed test. If that's the third one, she should get a suspension. If she wins the gold in Rio, it will always be tainted medal (and cycling does not need another one after Vino 2012).
Obviously not if the decision has been overturned by people who know far more about it then you or me.
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
