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PCM.daily Projects WT Stat Discussion
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| Luxemburger |
Posted on 27-07-2016 16:16
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1215
Joined: 22-07-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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About Mollema: What about 79/80MTN but with "bad" recovery and stamina?
Kirchen's second account according to Spilak23, 21-07-2016 17:16
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| haasje33 |
Posted on 27-07-2016 22:03
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Sprinter
Posts: 1679
Joined: 08-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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From now on, this thread will be used to discuss WorldTour stats only. For the discussion about the PCT and CT stats, check out this thread.
Inactive due to personal reasons.
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 27-07-2016 22:13
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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I would give Porte 81 or 82 in MO. he always showed that he's on par with the best and he always looked quite fresh when holding the wheel.His low REC should keep him from winning GTs. Poels on 79 would be good, I think.
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 27-07-2016 22:20
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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Froome 83
Quintana,Contador 82
Nibali,Porte,Kruiswijk,Aru(he only had 2 bad days which were in cold and rainy conditions,overall he wasn't that worse than Quintana in mountains) 81
PS:Yes I know I didn't list a lot of people as I wrote this for these riders that I have listed. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 28-07-2016 21:38
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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All the Tour stats have now been decided and in reference to some of the riders being mentioned on the last few posts.
Mollema 79 mtn with low rec
Porte 81 mtn with improved rec
Poels 79 mtn
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| matt17br |
Posted on 29-07-2016 12:48
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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In an attempt to improve stats even further, we decided to share with you The stats google document we use for a few months in order to make it easier for statmakers to edit stats in real time and for people to look at them.
You can only view it of course, but this is going to be a great help for people that want to point out possible changes to the stats.
The link has been attached to the first post as well.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 22:38
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| hollyghost54 |
Posted on 29-07-2016 16:41
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Amateur
Posts: 11
Joined: 04-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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please do me a favour and lower the potential of full grown riders like sagan, degenkolb, kristoff,... they don't get any better |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 29-07-2016 16:45
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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...no the potentials don't work like that. Riders like Sagan, who are really good and still young NEED potential 7, but they will most likely not grow any further because with POT 7 they already reached the max they can get in their own specialities. If you give Sagan potential 5 he will decline from the first year of career already.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 30-07-2016 16:26
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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I believe Dries Devenyns deserves an update. After going for the cobbles last year, he's gone back to his puncheur roots and got some nice results with it this year.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 31-07-2016 18:04
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
I believe Dries Devenyns deserves an update. After going for the cobbles last year, he's gone back to his puncheur roots and got some nice results with it this year.
I just upgraded him today in both hill, RES and a few other stats.
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| asoutar |
Posted on 03-08-2016 16:50
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Junior Rider
Posts: 40
Joined: 23-08-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
In an attempt to improve stats even further, we decided to share with you The stats google document we use for a few months in order to make it easier for statmakers to edit stats in real time and for people to look at them.
I have some questions:
Why is highest resistance stat 77?
Why is Quintana is so close to Froome in most stats? (imo he shouldn't)
Why most GC/Climbers have similar stamina,resistance and fighter? |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 03-08-2016 16:54
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Why is highest resistance stat 77?
It is in the document but we do apply a formula that makes it just as high as the one used by Cyanide's db. Up to pcm 15, resistance matrix was much lower compared to other stats in order to avoid overpowered riders, and it was exactly the same in cyanide dbs mind you.
Why is Quintana is so close to Froome in most stats? (imo he shouldn't)
Yes but the real question is why he shouldn't?
Why most GC/Climbers have similar stamina,resistance and fighter?
...it's hard to find an answer to this, just like above, why shouldn't they? Plus it's not really true they have similar fighter. The likes of Contador and Nibali have about 80, others such as Kelderman and Zubeldia are much lower.
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| asoutar |
Posted on 03-08-2016 17:31
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Junior Rider
Posts: 40
Joined: 23-08-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ok don't really get first one but I am sure it works. I can't be bothered to talk about Froome/Quintana.
I just feel that some of these stats make so little difference that there should be more variation. Nibali has one more stamina stat even though he has lesser stats than froome and has performed much better in classics. I have never seen Froome in a breakaway (I know the Fighter stat has literally no impact). Porte+Aru etc have same resistance as sagan and cancellara i thought it was the ability to pull or hold of peleton on flat/hilly stages. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 03-08-2016 22:46
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I just feel that some of these stats make so little difference that there should be more variation. Nibali has one more stamina stat even though he has lesser stats than froome and has performed much better in classics.
This is a good call, the difference has now gone up to 3. REC stats differences have also been widened since as you may know it makes less impact than it should in our opinion, and well it has been confirmed by a few tests Cyanide posted here.
I have never seen Froome in a breakaway (I know the Fighter stat has literally no impact).
It has very few impact but Froome is probably the most attacking rider among the GC ones, just behind Contador and Nibali, which is reflected by the stats. During this tour - and not only here - he often was the first to make a move, which is rare when you are in the yellow jersey as well.
Porte+Aru etc have same resistance as sagan and cancellara i thought it was the ability to pull or hold of peleton on flat/hilly stages.
It still is but resistance is about the red bar, period. The ability of holding off a peloton is a consequence of that. Climbers need higher res stats because they need to use up a lot more red bar than a flat specialist, so in this case they need it not to get dropped from the likes of Froome.
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| Rammus |
Posted on 05-08-2016 23:11
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Stagiare
Posts: 223
Joined: 08-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Not entirely sure TVG is a better climber than Bardet, Chaves, Valverde, Mollema etc
Especially with his higher TT & Flat he's going to be ahead in GC everytime.
Same with Pinot actually who has higher mountain/flat/recovery/TT than Bardet/Chaves who have both finished higher in GT's and much more recently. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 05-08-2016 23:57
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Tejay is 68 rec, which is basically the worst among the 78+ riders. He'll suck big time in 3rd weeks - and generally in GTs, but he's decent in smaller tours.
Pinot has had one unlucky Tour, but over this season's span he's been at least on par with Bardet if not better.
Valverde is not a worse climber in game than TVG. His best hill in game and superior backups will make him feel like at least 80 if not more, and same goes for the likes of Martin, Purito, Alaphilippe etc.
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| Anderis |
Posted on 06-08-2016 00:19
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Domestique
Posts: 471
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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I would rather have Howes on 74 HI and 76-77 ST than what he is now.
He is hardly getting any results in small races. His 3 strongest races are LBL, AGR and Worlds, all could be achieved down to good stamina. I feel lowering his HI and increasing STA will make him performing in more realistic way in the game. With 75 HI you would expect him to have plenty of results in small races and he doesn't do that in real life.
Van Baarle definetely needs REC upgrade. He is only at 65 while he is usually very good in 3rd week. Last year he was among the first 30-40 riders to cross the Col de Chaussy when the stage 19 of TdF exploded early, despite being no climber at all.
In 2016 he finished respectable (again, he is no climber) 65th on Mont Blanc stage, then went into the breakaway on stage 20, hung onto the break for longer than some better climbers despite being one of the few who were doing any pulls early (for Rolland, while rest, apart from Sagan just sit up). And while other lead-out men were saving themselves in the mountains, Van Baarle despite his efforts from previous day did an impressive lead-out for Navardauskas in Paris. He was in the front with just 400 meters to go. After him, it was only one lead-out man from Katusha and the sprinters. And Van Baarle doesn't do lead-out often, because he doesn't have any great sprinter in his team, and he probably doesn't have the speed most of the lead-out men who work within 500 meters to go have, so it was even more impressive and an indication that he handles the 3-weeks effort very well.
If it was me I would also upgrade Bettiol by at least 1 point in FL and HI (he is only 70 HI, right?), but I understand he is young, so maybe he would be progressing to quickly in career. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 06-08-2016 16:06
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Anderis wrote:
I would rather have Howes on 74 HI and 76-77 ST than what he is now.
He is hardly getting any results in small races. His 3 strongest races are LBL, AGR and Worlds, all could be achieved down to good stamina. I feel lowering his HI and increasing STA will make him performing in more realistic way in the game. With 75 HI you would expect him to have plenty of results in small races and he doesn't do that in real life.
Van Baarle definetely needs REC upgrade. He is only at 65 while he is usually very good in 3rd week. Last year he was among the first 30-40 riders to cross the Col de Chaussy when the stage 19 of TdF exploded early, despite being no climber at all.
In 2016 he finished respectable (again, he is no climber) 65th on Mont Blanc stage, then went into the breakaway on stage 20, hung onto the break for longer than some better climbers despite being one of the few who were doing any pulls early (for Rolland, while rest, apart from Sagan just sit up). And while other lead-out men were saving themselves in the mountains, Van Baarle despite his efforts from previous day did an impressive lead-out for Navardauskas in Paris. He was in the front with just 400 meters to go. After him, it was only one lead-out man from Katusha and the sprinters. And Van Baarle doesn't do lead-out often, because he doesn't have any great sprinter in his team, and he probably doesn't have the speed most of the lead-out men who work within 500 meters to go have, so it was even more impressive and an indication that he handles the 3-weeks effort very well.
If it was me I would also upgrade Bettiol by at least 1 point in FL and HI (he is only 70 HI, right?), but I understand he is young, so maybe he would be progressing to quickly in career.
I don't agree with the logic behind Howes for the simple reason if he had lower hill and higher STA he'd struggle to do as well as he has done in bigger races like the LBL. 74 hill in big hilly classics doesn't really do much as there are so many other riders with similar climbing stats. Also giving him a boost in STA wouldn't make much difference as nearly all the riders that finish near him in these big races not only have higher hill stats but also usually higher STA as well, so in practice you'd would actually be weakening him. Even though he does poorly in smaller races there is not much we can do to fix this without making him weaker for the bigger ones as well.
Good mention though with Van Baarle and have given him a good boost in rec and Bettiol who I also agree with has got those extra points.
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 06-08-2016 19:51
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World Champion
Posts: 10891
Joined: 19-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Get Nibali to -50 downhill. Little twat.
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| ziga007 |
Posted on 06-08-2016 19:54
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 388
Joined: 24-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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And Majka 50 for FTR ?
Alberto Contador
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