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Objectives / Form
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| katulen |
Posted on 19-06-2016 12:09
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Free Agent
Posts: 137
Joined: 16-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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So..
I guess im not the only one struggling with the new system of how objectives/fitness/form works in '16.
As i know, the game decide what 5 captains you have - this cannot be changed.
You have the possibillity to manually change the fitness/form of the captains, but not the domestique riders. (EDIT: When i made a career with Etixx i had 8 captains)
Even if you relocate your domestiques to a different leaders, you would expect them to copy their captains schedule/objectives/form, however this is not done. The helpers form is just stuck and cannot be changed - or ?
I like the idea, however, it doesnt work proper.
ADD: I just messed a bit around with the domestique and why it didnt wanna apply the same form as captains.
After relocating helper A from Captain 1, to 2, nothing happens with helper A's fitness. But if you close the save, and load up the save - the change has been done.
However this is not working with all of the riders, only some..
Arghhh so buggy...
Edited by katulen on 19-06-2016 13:10
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| Dusen |
Posted on 19-06-2016 12:27
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1173
Joined: 30-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Any way that some presure can be put on the developers to fix this broken feature (or stripped down aspect of the game if you like) before they leave the game be in a month or two. |
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| katulen |
Posted on 19-06-2016 12:37
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Free Agent
Posts: 137
Joined: 16-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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This is SUCH a huge aspect of the game, which in my opinion is VERY broken as it is right now. I have really no control over the fitness/form of my riders. And the features how they made them, doesn't even work proper :/ |
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 19-06-2016 12:49
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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now that the beta is over and the ndas no longer apply can i ask the beta testers if they tried to tell cyanide this system is awful?
what did cyanide say? |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 01:20
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| Lachi |
Posted on 19-06-2016 12:51
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Any feedback from the beta testers would be appreciated. Did you experience this problem also? Did you report it? Is it a real problem or only a display bug? |
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| Mateo4 |
Posted on 19-06-2016 17:27
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Free Agent
Posts: 108
Joined: 14-03-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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I actually think, that it's a nice idea, but they would have to at least a) make the domestique's fitness change according to a leader's, b) let you choose your leaders, c) make La Vuelta eligible |
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 19-06-2016 17:34
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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vuelta is eligible. but theres a bug it doesnt show up on the list unless its a default objective. you cant pick it yourself |
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| TschuuX |
Posted on 19-06-2016 17:49
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Amateur
Posts: 7
Joined: 10-09-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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It´s ok for me that a new game have some flaws and minor bugs for exaple crashen in staxe XY with rider XY while hes injured and so on. This is impossible to find in a beta test.
BUT when there is such a obvious bug in the MAIN FEATURE of this game mode im absolutely furrious how such a bug cant be discovered into the beta phase. I mean i saw this new screen and my first intention was to test this stuff out. After 5 minutes i could find out that a) the sistem is bugged b) the system shoud be reworked in order to pleas the ppl. |
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| Faca |
Posted on 19-06-2016 17:54
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Under 23
Posts: 52
Joined: 19-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Haha this system is so bad designed! Let me give you an example for why this doesn't work at all: I chose to play with Fortuneo - in reality their big goal is obviously Tour de France, but since they need a wildcard for that it isn't possible to select from the dropdown. Furthermore the game has chosen 5 leaders for me. No sepulveda, No Chris Anker Sørensen, Not B. Feillu - but instead Hutarovich, Tronet, Hivert, Vallee and Vachon. Wtf is this!
Let the player select who is team leaders and select from all races, even those you need an invite from. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 19-06-2016 19:19
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Thatguyeveryonehates wrote:
now that the beta is over and the ndas no longer apply can i ask the beta testers if they tried to tell cyanide this system is awful?
what did cyanide say?
Career was not an area of focus, something they asked us to test detailedly, so I honestly didn't check it at all and rather focused on single race AI and GUI and procyclist mode, that was asked of us to test and send feedback for (we couldn't test steam workshop before release day before you ask, because it was literally implemented then, and we only tested multiplayer mode in January, while it didn't work at all until, again, release day.
To be fair, we didn't even have the chance to properly report bugs via a bugs tracker as we used to in all the past betas. All the feedback we sent on the forum was never ever replied to by Cyanide directly even though they also used to in the past years. So yeah, while no feedback was given to them, they also never warned us of the changes so we could look at it knowingly.
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| tellico |
Posted on 19-06-2016 19:45
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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And this is tangible proof of what i siad before the release pcm2015: they focus on the idiotic pro cyclist mode which is nothing more than a castrated career, as a result of this there will be neither a good career mode nor a good pro cyclist mode.
It is really unbelievable how big bugs final product contains and how little fans opinions means to them.
Unfortunately, it will take until they have real competition. |
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| Lamba |
Posted on 19-06-2016 20:18
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Stagiare
Posts: 150
Joined: 15-07-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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tellico wrote:
And this is tangible proof of what i siad before the release pcm2015: they focus on the idiotic pro cyclist mode which is nothing more than a castrated career, as a result of this there will be neither a good career mode nor a good pro cyclist mode.
It is really unbelievable how big bugs final product contains and how little fans opinions means to them.
Unfortunately, it will take until they have real competition.
Imo, they could make a few steps to make the game REALLY good and with lots of replayabilitiy. People would still want to buy the next edition for new teams like FIFA and such, but still. Mind you, that I've only played PCM 2015 and 2016 (and tried it, but didn't understand anything, in 2006 or so)
1) Career mode;
* Keep it as it was in 2015. Let the tinkers do all the fine tuning and plan every season down to the last comma.
* Add an option for more casual players (like myself) to simply choose captains, add key helpers to those captains and then suggest a schedule you can change in.
* Add an option to simply choose the X number of riders you're interested in and then the game designs everything for you. Like almost a mix of pro cyclist and career, if you only really care about managning during the games and don't really care about 24 of your 28 riders.
2) Pro Cyclist mode; I'm a huge fan of game modes like this, both here, in FIFA, Madden and all the likes. It's a nice element, but it's not well enough made in all aspects.
* Remove the exp system as it is now and give less exp from training, add a little exp for completing races and then add the option to earn exp during races. A bit like Madden drive goals, if anyone know that.
Say I'm a stage rider, but in the start of my career. I'll not be the captain, more likely some kind of free element, baroudeur or helper. Most likely helper. If my role is helper, the game should give me goals like "protect captain X% of the stage" or "fetch water X times during the stage" or "X exp per time you obey a command from your captain". I'm not entirely sure how it'd work, it would indeed require a bit better AI than the current, but it's not entirely far off.
* Remove the level up system. While randomness adds flavor to the races, it's a real nuisance to progressing. A friend and I played our two riders almost simultanerously and had almost similar results. Even when we where both level 13, my rider was 2 better in AVG than his was, and I hadn't even trained stage rider, only baroudeur and puncher. I simply got more skill points when I leveled up. Instead, either make it so you earn exp and pay X amount of exp to buy a skill up (increasingly expensive the higher you get) or make it so you get X number of skill points to distribute per level up. Add a tutorial/helper (like the current system almost) to help newer players understand what attributes are good for and why a stage rider shouldn't waste points in sprinting for example.
* Change how the predetermined roles work. When I choose my rider is a stage rider, it's because it's what I want him to be. It doesn't mean he is one. That should be up to me to decide. Following up on the previous point, I'd suggest that the game determines your type from the skills you have. That also means removing - or vastly increasing, at least - the skill caps. If you only have X number of points to distribute or have to earn massive amounts of exp to get very high in all skills, it's highly unlikely that players will become majorly superior compared to now anyways. It'll just feel more controlled.
Anyways; point of this is. What if I want to make my rider a Sagan'ish type? Should I be "rewarded" for choosing to make a rider that is 76-78 in everything, instead of 82+ in a handful of abilities? My entire point here is that player customization often isn't bad for making people keep playing and trying a lot of things. So long as they find a way to limit exp (or high amount of exp needed to reach the levels we see now), we won't see any super unrealistic monsters anyways.
3) Multiplayer modes
* Add a multiplayer/multirider mode that allows the players complete control. Like I mentioned in the career department. What if my main interest in this game is riding like the Yates brothers? Or the Schleck brothers?
I spoke with a mate about how cool it would be if he could make a career game, where I could then join as a pro cyclist. He would be the sports director and control everything - but my rider (and eventual other riders).
THAT would be cool, and unless their online servers are a problem, I can't see how terribly bad of an idea that is. Of course it would limit the play speed to reduce lag, but imagine a bunch of friends getting together, picking riders and then riding one rider each person and one person as the sports director on top of a rider? That could be incredibly entertaining, and much of the engire would be made for other purposes already, so it's not like A LOT would need to be created for itto work.
* Simply make a Pro Cyclist multiplayer mode.
Pros: Say I play with 4 other people.
* Everyone can sim to their own races without really paying much attention to the other races being run, as they're no interest to them. Only thing is server has to simulate it all (or wait for riders to finish races).
* Everyone can compete at who can become the best in their respective field (say it's 2 stage riders, 1 puncher and 2 climbers) or people can attempt at all getting on the same team and take that team to glory.
Cons:
* Game would be slow with more people, due to possibly racing a lot of different races.
* Someone would likely have to act as the server. I doubt Cyanide can put up some major serverpark for us to enjoy.
I think that's all for now. I felt like throwing off a rant, but it became this instead.  |
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| Christer |
Posted on 19-06-2016 21:29
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1414
Joined: 30-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
Thatguyeveryonehates wrote:
now that the beta is over and the ndas no longer apply can i ask the beta testers if they tried to tell cyanide this system is awful?
what did cyanide say?
Career was not an area of focus, something they asked us to test detailedly, so I honestly didn't check it at all and rather focused on single race AI and GUI and procyclist mode, that was asked of us to test and send feedback for (we couldn't test steam workshop before release day before you ask, because it was literally implemented then, and we only tested multiplayer mode in January, while it didn't work at all until, again, release day.
To be fair, we didn't even have the chance to properly report bugs via a bugs tracker as we used to in all the past betas. All the feedback we sent on the forum was never ever replied to by Cyanide directly even though they also used to in the past years. So yeah, while no feedback was given to them, they also never warned us of the changes so we could look at it knowingly.
To expand somewhat: the training thing was brought up in the beta. I questioned it, since I ended up with 0 leaders in my custom team. I didn't submit it to the bug tracker due to not being ble to follow up on the issue. I asked other testers to check for confirmation and reporting it. Not sure if that happened. But yeah, cyanide was surprisingly quiet in the forums. At least compared to the mp beta. (Which sorted out some big issues with connecting, BTW.  ) I haven't had the possibility to check thet final release build myself. I think that some issues with stage crashes has to do with the change in how mountain and hilly stages are defined now. Now, the game uses state based on % effort on the climb. High effort means hills while lower means mountain tat is used. My guess is that the crashing stages are "old" stages. This could also explain the delay in releasing the stage editor.
Not home yet. Any weirdness is due to phone.
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| tellico |
Posted on 19-06-2016 21:49
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Christer wrote:
High effort means hills while lower means mountain tat is used.
You mean high effort = mountain stat, low effort = hills stat...? |
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| Christer |
Posted on 19-06-2016 22:01
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1414
Joined: 30-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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No. Not as far as I can remember. Irl hills generally tend to be short but hihg intensity while mountains are longer efforts on lower intensity. So Hill being high effort % (not incline / climbing %) makes sense.
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| cio93 |
Posted on 19-06-2016 22:04
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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Wait, so Gilbert on dot 84 will outclimb Contador on dot 84 on Alpe d'Huez?
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 19-06-2016 22:17
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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that cant be right
somebody test liege bastogne liege gilbert and van garderen. does van garderen win because gilbert is more tired from riding the small climbs at average pace in the first 200kms? |
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| Christer |
Posted on 19-06-2016 22:27
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1414
Joined: 30-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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You guys seem to misunderstand me somewhat. Gilbert won't out climb contador because the energy bars would run out at that level of effort on a long mountain climb. However he should outperform contador in the spring classics. TvG could outperform Gilbert in lbl in a controlled environment but it shouldn't happen (often) during normal play.
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 19-06-2016 22:31
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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we understand you perfectly and we assumed gilbert would run out of energy quick.
but weve played pcm for years so we also assumed cyanide screwed up
so i ran a mountain test. running a lbl test next |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 19-06-2016 22:37
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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Well my point wasn't that Gilbert might finish first in a direct duel, but that Gilbert on dot 84 would have a faster base speed than Contador. on a mountain. Because that is what you made it sound like.
And even if that didn't change the stage result, it would still not be how cycling works.
Edited by cio93 on 19-06-2016 22:37
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