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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| crazyman2008 |
Posted on 09-06-2016 18:45
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Junior Rider
Posts: 35
Joined: 21-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
crazyman2008 wrote:
nice stats and nice database, my compliments 
I had a question about the stats of Valverde, is there a reason why his stats are kept more or less the same? or did I just overlook something
What do you mean with kept more or less the same? 
There has been an excellent explanation by Tafiolmo for many riders, but one I was missing is Valverde. A little downgrade for Nibali was performed, but I have also seen Valverde in trouble multiple times in the mountains as well.
Since it was left out of the previous discussion, I was wondering.
Don't understand me wrong (AiZaK), I know he is a great rider. two podium places during the past three grand tours, won some great stages as well as classics, but also has been dissappointing at some instances. As stated before, since an extended explanation was given for several other riders, I was wondering about Valverde.
Nothing more than a question , Like I said before, great work with the database, I enjoy it . |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 09-06-2016 19:01
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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crazyman2008 wrote:
matt17br wrote:
crazyman2008 wrote:
nice stats and nice database, my compliments
I had a question about the stats of Valverde, is there a reason why his stats are kept more or less the same? or did I just overlook something
What do you mean with kept more or less the same?
There has been an excellent explanation by Tafiolmo for many riders, but one I was missing is Valverde. A little downgrade for Nibali was performed, but I have also seen Valverde in trouble multiple times in the mountains as well.
Since it was left out of the previous discussion, I was wondering.
Don't understand me wrong (AiZaK), I know he is a great rider. two podium places during the past three grand tours, won some great stages as well as classics, but also has been dissappointing at some instances. As stated before, since an extended explanation was given for several other riders, I was wondering about Valverde.
Nothing more than a question , Like I said before, great work with the database, I enjoy it .
No problem. The matter with Valverde actually is that he only really suffers when the altitude gets higher than 2000, and he's proven that quite blatantly at this year's Giro especially, but could make examples for other GTs as well. It's true that he may feel overrated a bit, but some months ago he even had 81 mo following a good Tour.
So yeah, should he not confirm last year's performances again after the Tour - even though he said he will just be there to support Quintana - he will get a downgrade to 79. Don't forget anyway that he's pretty consistent in GTs, in a way or another he almost always manages to do very well. Worst GT that I remember of him recently was 2014's tour f.e, but at least he was better in the Vuelta.
Another reason why he wasn't downgraded is that many riders that are also on 80 are not that much better compared to him, recently, so yeah, all stats are yet to be completely changed again when Tour time comes. You could argue that he has better backups than most on 80, but it's supposed to be so, and in every GT we played, he either performed similarly to real life, or worked for Quintana anyway.
Thanks for your feedback
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| crazyman2008 |
Posted on 09-06-2016 20:33
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Junior Rider
Posts: 35
Joined: 21-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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oke, that sounds like an explanation I can live with  . Exactly what I was looking for
Thank you |
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 09-06-2016 21:16
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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The Schleck Fan wrote:
Lol if Nibali and Kruiswijk are 81 there is no way Majka is 80.
I will make a long suggestion about the riders stats(who went to the Giro) tomorrow when my exams finish. My exams already finished last week but since I am too lazy I didn't do any suggestions.Now here they come
PS I didn't look at the updated database after the Giro.So if there has been an update already after the Giro on some riders I mention then just say that there is already an upgrade.
Roglic obviously deserves a big PRL and TT upgrade.
Kruiswijk should be 80 or 81 MO
Ulissi should get an all-round upgrade after his performance at this Giro.Remember he was also 4th in Risoul where Chavez barely dropped him on the final climb(he was in the BOTD though).He was also 4th in Andalo(he was in the BOTD as well but he climbed pretty good still) so he should get a MO upgrade as well.
Scarponi definitely deserves an upgrade.
Jungels was awesome through the whole race with the exception of stage 14(maybe 13 as well(on 19 he wasn't that much behind Valverde Gr. on Agnel but started Risoul a min behind.)).He was also awesome in the ITT and Asolo so he should get an all-round upgrade
Vegard Stake Laengen desreves a TT upgrade as well.
Zaka should be 79 mountain with good back-up stats.
Valv should be downgraded in mountain.Should be 79 imo.
Majka should get downgraded to 79(I know we already have discussed this)
Brambilla should get an all-round upgrade as well.
Trentin should get an upgrade as well imo.
Küng was also very strong in both ITT and the prologue.Upgrade on both.
Amador.Upgrade in DH,FTR and PRL.I also think he should get an upgrade in ITT.
Ciccone should get an upgrade as well.He ahd a great Giro. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 09-06-2016 21:19
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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The other reason that Valverde was kept at 80 mtn was that it would be hard to put him to 79 when say for example Majka was to be kept on 80. Valverde is one of those riders highly unlikely to ever win another GT anyway for the simple reason that he always has a bad couple of days in GT's often combined with his problems at higher altitude as matt said and his knack of using up energy for minimal gains on other stages.
He's really a 79 mtn imo and his high hill the best in the game overpowers him and makes him feel like a point higher sometimes. BUT we thought that with PCM16 about to come out and with some possible changes in the climbing stat matrix for the new game, that would be the time to adjust Valverde rather than in the May update.
I'm also currently playing the community Giro with the same startlist as irl with the principal aim of testing the realism of all the stats, only on stage 4 so far so the big mountains are still to come.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 09-06-2016 21:31
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Posted on 22-11-2024 11:19
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 09-06-2016 21:29
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Schleck Fan: Nearly all of those recs were already changed in the May update after the Giro with the exception of Majka and Valverde which have been recently discussed. I'm surprised though that you suggested 79 for Zakarin as his climbing has been one of the best so far this year as shown at Romandie. Zakarin's problem is poor bike handling and his crashes shattered his confidence at the Giro. If anything his main stats should be high with back up stats like REC still lowish as he wasn't able to complete the Giro due to his last crash, because he's still unproven over 3 weeks, but as for going up mtns he's sure an 80 rider at least imo.
Ewanwilson: Kennaugh is super low because as far as I know he never rides cobbles or if he has like in 2015 Tour he finished really low down. If he has done well in a stage I've missed then please mention it. If Kennaugh though does decide to ride cobbles I'm sure he would ride much better than his stat as irl Sky riders have a tendency to perform to a high standard in most terrain anyway.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 09-06-2016 21:35
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 09-06-2016 21:35
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Schleck Fan: Nearly all of those recs were already changed in the May update after the Giro with the exception of Majka and Valverde which have been recently discussed. I'm surprised though that you suggested 79 for Zakarin as his climbing has been one of the best so far this year as shown at Romandie. Zakarin's problem is poor bike handling and his crashes shattered his confidence at the Giro. If anything his main stats should be high with back up stats like REC still lowish as he wasn't able to complete the Giro due to his last crash, because he's still unproven over 3 weeks, but as for going up mtns he's sure 80 plus rider imo.
Ewanwilson: Kennaugh is super low because as far as I know he never rides cobbles or if he has like in 2015 Tour he finished really low down. If he has done well in a stage I've missed then please mention it. If Kennaugh though does to decide to ride cobbles I'm sure he would ride much better than his stat irl as Sky riders have a tendency to perform to a high standard in most terrain anyway. After a 2nd thought,yeah 80 seems much more logical.(What is even more strange is that I proposed 79 while I am a Zaka fan)Also his REC should be upgraded as he lasted for 18 stages and was on the Valv group at Agnel. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 09-06-2016 21:35
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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@TSF, thanks, but it's not like we didn't watch the Giro
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 09-06-2016 21:37
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
The other reason that Valverde was kept at 80 mtn was that it would be hard to put him to 79 when say for example Majka was to be kept on 80. Valverde is one of those riders highly unlikely to ever win another GT anyway for the simple reason that he always has a bad couple of days in GT's often combined with his problems at higher altitude as matt said and his knack of using up energy for minimal gains on other stages.
He's really a 79 mtn imo and his high hill the best in the game overpowers him and makes him feel like a point higher sometimes. BUT we thought that with PCM16 about to come out and with some possible changes in the climbing stat matrix for the new game, that would be the time to adjust Valverde rather than in the May update.
I'm also currently playing the community Giro with the same startlist as irl with the principal aim of testing the realism of all the stats, only on stage 4 so far so the big mountains are still to come. I think Majka is 79 as well and with Valv's back up stats he should beat Majka. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 09-06-2016 21:43
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Yes he did last till stage 19 so more or less finished the race well and his 73 rec could've been higher in hindsight. I guess if I was doing it today I might go nearer 75 for him, but as often said Rec in game has minimal differences anyway unless its really big differences. So when we have PCM16 we'll try and make sure that the riders that have bad days can have them more often which will mean bigger differences in the stat and after the Tour would be the time to work on that and taking the Giro into consideration again as well.
As said before I'm playing the Giro and Zakarin is in pink on stage 4 after pinching it from Dumoulin so his race form is pretty great and I'll watch his rec in week three and see how a 73 does, as long as he doesn't crash of course before then.
Well if Valverde was on say 79 mtn he would probably match or beat Majka on 80 anyway but given the fact that Valverde's on 80 anyway that should make him stronger than Majka and of course Movistar has superior climbing doms than Tinkoff to shield him as well.
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 11-06-2016 16:23
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Fantastic Alaphilippe!!! Maybe he needs a little push in mountain??? 75 may be fine?? |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 11-06-2016 18:18
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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AiZaK wrote:
Fantastic Alaphilippe!!! Maybe he needs a little push in mountain??? 75 may be fine??
I put him to 75 after yesterday.
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| Jorge14 |
Posted on 12-06-2016 15:25
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Stagiare
Posts: 184
Joined: 15-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Kenneth Vanbilsen i think needs to be downgraded, the only good results he have are on Topsport team, since he moves to Cofidis he doesnt show the potentital that he have, what do you think?
Also Ivan Centrone could be udpated, nice Skoda Tour for him |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 12-06-2016 16:01
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Jorge14 wrote:
Kenneth Vanbilsen i think needs to be downgraded, the only good results he have are on Topsport team, since he moves to Cofidis he doesnt show the potentital that he have, what do you think?
Also Ivan Centrone could be udpated, nice Skoda Tour for him
I'll have a look at Vanbilsen but the reason he might be higher than what he deserves in terms of results, is largely down to the fact that he forms part of Bouhanni's leadout train and the best sprinters in the game usually need one to get the results that reflect real life.
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| Jorge14 |
Posted on 12-06-2016 16:36
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Stagiare
Posts: 184
Joined: 15-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Jorge14 wrote:
Kenneth Vanbilsen i think needs to be downgraded, the only good results he have are on Topsport team, since he moves to Cofidis he doesnt show the potentital that he have, what do you think?
Also Ivan Centrone could be udpated, nice Skoda Tour for him
I'll have a look at Vanbilsen but the reason he might be higher than what he deserves in terms of results, is largely down to the fact that he forms part of Bouhanni's leadout train and the best sprinters in the game usually need one to get the results that reflect real life.
You are right because Soupe is a little overrated too(in my career he win too much races)but if he get downgrade he can be part of the leadout too. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 12-06-2016 16:45
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Jorge14 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Jorge14 wrote:
Kenneth Vanbilsen i think needs to be downgraded, the only good results he have are on Topsport team, since he moves to Cofidis he doesnt show the potentital that he have, what do you think?
Also Ivan Centrone could be udpated, nice Skoda Tour for him
I'll have a look at Vanbilsen but the reason he might be higher than what he deserves in terms of results, is largely down to the fact that he forms part of Bouhanni's leadout train and the best sprinters in the game usually need one to get the results that reflect real life.
You are right because Soupe is a little overrated too(in my career he win too much races)but if he get downgrade he can be part of the leadout too.
Nearly all the flat riders in Bouhanni's train have slightly better stats than they might deserve as well. because in the past I often found that Bouhanni wasn't getting into position to win as many sprints as he does irl, since boosting his train in flat, sprint and acc at the start of 2016 I find it reflects real life far better.
The downside might be in career though where these riders might go better than they should throughout the season.
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| marcoplv95 |
Posted on 12-06-2016 17:02
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Stagiare
Posts: 210
Joined: 18-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Hagen 73MON, 78SPR and Bardet 80MON? |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 12-06-2016 17:20
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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EBH is a problem rider to do, I think 72-73 mtn is something that he has already moved back and forth between anyway and either would work. His sprint imo is no better than 77 and with his high overall stats in general he's always a strong points jersey contender anyway.
Bardet usually does well at Dauphine and is a defo 79 mtn that peaks in this race, to go higher he needs to have a really good Tour, so better to wait till then.
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| Jorge14 |
Posted on 12-06-2016 17:25
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Stagiare
Posts: 184
Joined: 15-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Thanks Tafiolmo but only Cofidis have this high stats to do the leadout train or more teams are a little bit overrated too? |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 12-06-2016 18:01
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Jorge14 wrote:
Thanks Tafiolmo but only Cofidis have this high stats to do the leadout train or more teams are a little bit overrated too?
Well I made sure that in terms of climbing mtn stages, that the best three teams in the game would be these three in this order:
Sky-Astana-Movistar which meant I gave at the start of the year slightly higher stats to these teams and also now when their lesser riders climb well they may get an extra point than if they were in another team, as these teams especially can dominate on mtn stages and are the best three irl as well on mtn stages.
FDJ we gave a boost a little while back as well in some stats like TT as the whole team does seem more professional and complete this season.
Cofidis is the only sprint team I did if for as the other teams already had the correct stats to leadout their riders properly, even though I do feel that Kittel should possibly be 83 sprint as his leadout (unless Gaviria is in the train) is slightly inferior to that of both Lotto and DD.
All the others teams in the game tend to ride like irl so no need to change.
If anybody wants to suggest any team ideas feel free, as most people when they think of stats think of individual riders rather than the whole team.
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