|
News in June
|
| Shonak |
Posted on 04-06-2016 09:44
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15579
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
|
Those guys are trained, but they are not professionals so you shouldn't compare their effort to professional cyclists.
But I don't know so I'm speculating here. I'd reckon they ride up Mont Ventoux a couple of times over some days and don't just measure the time up Ventoux since they would want to get as much data as possible and need to push the athletes to make possible differences more obvious. Since they are trained they are probably used to doing training camps in Mallorca etc.
I havn't read if it's just Mont Ventoux or if they do some racing over other mountains, flat parts. Logic of cycling would normally say you don't just ride a climb. I don't think they'll stage race much tho; maybe peloton ride at good pace and then full speed Mont Ventoux? They could ofc try different setups and routines in the testing phase now, to get different data.
EDIT I sent the scientist a twitter message, maybe he'll reply. 
Edited by Shonak on 04-06-2016 09:48
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
|
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 04-06-2016 09:48
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5885
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Also EPO isn't used in isolation, other PED's such as HGH, Testosterone, Cortisone, Blood Bags and so on are used in conjunction with EPO. And if we want to see a case study then we have the 90's and early 2000's, climbing times went through the roof with no other explanation than EPO
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| Shonak |
Posted on 04-06-2016 09:59
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15579
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
|
I've found a science paper of Cohen where he has already stated similiar in 2012 and which is probably the groundwork for the experiment now. Since I don't think most of you have access to it or bother to search it, I've attached it in the post.
I havn't read it yet but probably will do so tonight when I get some free time on hands.
P.S.: Maybe guy is paid by Armstrong to do reserach so he gets back his 7 TdFs in the long run. 
Shonak attached the following file:
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
|
| |
|
|
| Squire |
Posted on 04-06-2016 10:01
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1320
Joined: 24-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
I'd hardly call it "high quality research". The main benefit of EPO and PEDs in general for cyclists is recovery. Isolated performances doesn't mean that much. The riders themselves have said that you can be somewhat competitive in one-day races without PEDs.
And with 50 selected "trained" bike riders you're prone to a plethora of random things that can skew the data. However, it'll still be interesting to see the results.
|
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 04-06-2016 10:09
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5885
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Shonak wrote:
I've found a science paper of Cohen where he has already stated similiar in 2012 and which is probably the groundwork for the experiment now. Since I don't think most of you have access to it or bother to search it, I've attached it in the post.
I havn't read it yet but probably will do so tonight when I get some free time on hands.
P.S.: Maybe guy is paid by Armstrong to do reserach so he gets back his 7 TdFs in the long run.
After you read that study have a read of this https://www.outsideonline.com/1912226/...rnal-study
"So where did the study go wrong? It goes back to basic exercise physiology and the science of how races are won, Joyner says. The researchers don’t understand the relationship between VO2 max—your body’s maximum ability to consume oxygen, or your “performance ceiling”—and other metrics like lactate threshold, a key predictor of endurance performance, Joyner says.
(In the context of cycling, a five-minute-long pursuit would best correspond to a VO2 max effort, while a 60-minute time trial would closely match your lactate threshold.)
After reviewing the existing literature on EPO, the researchers found that a doping regimen can lead to between a 7 and 9.7 percent increase in VO2 max, with an “increase in performance estimated by a time-to-exhaustion test of ... 9.4 percent (versus 1.5 percent in placebo-treated subjects) and 16.6 percent in trained subjects.”
Here’s how: EPO is a naturally-produced hormone that regulates red blood cell production. Red blood cells happen to carry oxygen, the delivery of which is a limiting factor in endurance performance. More EPO means more red blood cells which means a faster you.
The researchers actually pointed all of this out, but they weren’t convinced that EPO would have an effect on race-day performance because “cyclists only work a small amount of time at their peak intensities,” they wrote.
That was mistake number one, Joyner says. Even if most racing happens well below VO2 max territory, the racing that matters—mountain-top finishes and time trials—happen much closer to VO2 max. Mistake number two: Ignoring that boosting your VO2 max can lead to other benefits, such as a jump in your lactate threshold. “They don’t realize that your lactate threshold is a percentage of your VO2 max,” he says. “If your LT [lactate threshold] normally is 80 percent of VO2 max, and your VO2 max goes up, it’s 80 percent of a higher number. Your performance improves.”
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| Shonak |
Posted on 04-06-2016 10:14
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15579
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
|
Thanks strydz, will do.
I too think that 48 (split 24 vs 24) is a rather small sample, however it is not quantatitive research but an experiment, so it's not representative anyway. Maybe the numbers margin will be wide enough to neglect the small sample. For what it's worth, it's good that there's some research going on here.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
|
| |
|
|
| Alakagom |
Posted on 04-06-2016 10:50
|
World Champion
Posts: 10452
Joined: 19-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
To be fair, to get 24 on EPO is pretty good imho. There is some sort of stigma attached to EPO since when it was starting to get popular, people completely misused it and it led to deaths.. similar like Ephedrine. Both safe substances but there's some stigma attached from 90s to them.
Anyway results could be fun reading, but EPO doesn't warrant much use in just one stage.
As another note, following many scientific studies I'm genuinely surprised how many of the studies turn out to be complete shit, and you can even tell before reading much, I'm not saying this one is, just more of a general view
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 07-12-2025 16:51
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 05-06-2016 09:42
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15176
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
After Tinkoff leaving at cycling.
As much I did not like that guy , he still has few good points , but still I am not sure that it will work at cycling.
Main goal is to prevent team collapses after few years..to avoid situation when another 40% pro teams are in the edge to collapse and looking last minute sponsors.
Situation is :
Now pro team will run their team with their own money. Like very expensive personal hobby. They will get salary also ..from money that they himself have arranged to team. Big tour are sometime generous that they invite them , let them ride on their show/tour. It gives mostly outcome for sponsors who had given money.
This part works fine. I would never know what Fassa Bortolo brand is without a cycling I still enjoy Gerolsteiner water bottle more then others at hotel.
What Tinkoff wants:
F1 model ..where big races and organisation will share their money with teams.
Will it be enough? Cycling has not running big money as F1 or football..it would give for every pro team 1 maybe 2 million. It is something ..but it also might cause salary small boost ..riders will have better training condition (hotels, training places). Nothing bad there.
But this wont stop main problem..teams still will go one after another bankruptcy.
Cycling..teams..riders would need more security for future. At football they can sign 6 year deals. At cycling 2 years is max they can offer. Good bless the sponsors who has keep this great sport alive a long time already. |
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 05-06-2016 10:51
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5885
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Guido Mukk wrote:
After Tinkoff leaving at cycling.
As much I did not like that guy , he still has few good points , but still I am not sure that it will work at cycling.
Main goal is to prevent team collapses after few years..to avoid situation when another 40% pro teams are in the edge to collapse and looking last minute sponsors.
Situation is :
Now pro team will run their team with their own money. Like very expensive personal hobby. They will get salary also ..from money that they himself have arranged to team. Big tour are sometime generous that they invite them , let them ride on their show/tour. It gives mostly outcome for sponsors who had given money.
This part works fine. I would never know what Fassa Bortolo brand is without a cycling I still enjoy Gerolsteiner water bottle more then others at hotel.
What Tinkoff wants:
F1 model ..where big races and organisation will share their money with teams.
Will it be enough? Cycling has not running big money as F1 or football..it would give for every pro team 1 maybe 2 million. It is something ..but it also might cause salary small boost ..riders will have better training condition (hotels, training places). Nothing bad there.
But this wont stop main problem..teams still will go one after another bankruptcy.
Cycling..teams..riders would need more security for future. At football they can sign 6 year deals. At cycling 2 years is max they can offer. Good bless the sponsors who has keep this great sport alive a long time already.
The F1 model isn't a great one, they sell races to the highest bidder which is why they have money to share with teams, it's easy to sell the races as they are in one place where cycling is held over a long course, can't sell tickets to cycling events like F1 or Football so no gate receipts, the races are owned by different groups and not the UCI while F1 owns it's races, where does the money come from for any cash injection for the teams? And even if they could raise the cash like 1 or 2 million I can't see how that would improve anything for the riders, it would go to buy big name riders while the average Dom wouldn't see any benefit.
I don't disagree that the cycling structure is broken but I don't think more money is what will fix it
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| Spilak23 |
Posted on 05-06-2016 11:04
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7217
Joined: 22-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
olegtinkov
#cycling Let me be more accurate: I believe not only BMC and Katusha, but also Orica, Dimention Data and perhaps Lampre are in the risk if cycling financial model won't be changed. We'll ending up with 2 layers - Goverment budget teams such as Astana, FDJ, Lotto's and bike producer's team from the other side. There are exceptions such as Movistar or Etixx, but for how long their talented managers will convincing rich sponsors to support ? I don't know..
I see the only model that works: -ASO and some hedge-fund create new vehicle -This structure buys RCS and create TOP professional league of 12/14 teams, dropping off impotent UCI.
- ASO signs strong contract with pay-per-view TV Co. and covers only top and monument races. - ASO pays €€€ to the top chosen teams on annual basis - Salary cap for the team is a must! - Peloton in that league should be reduced to 150 riders Max, 14 teams(12+2 wild cards) X9
- UCI should take care of juniors and small teams and races to develop riders for elite business project.
Here is my idea, that's pretty obvious, I don't pretend on the rocket science!
See you soon at Dauphine, GO @acontadoroficial
|
| |
|
|
| Shonak |
Posted on 05-06-2016 11:23
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15579
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
|
He posted all that on instagram in front of his private jet 
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
|
| |
|
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 05-06-2016 12:07
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3785
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
What a bullshit article.This guy clearly has no idea about cycling.Nibali put the pressure on the climb,attacked on the descent and Kruis crashed while trying to follow Nibs.
Also if Orica/Sky/Garmin/BMC would have done that he wouldn't have said anything.His hate of Nibali is disgusting. |
| |
|
|
| Shonak |
Posted on 05-06-2016 13:27
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15579
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
|
Wtf
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
|
| |
|
|
| Selwink |
Posted on 05-06-2016 17:11
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8702
Joined: 17-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Tragic news 
https://www.tuttob...3&tp=n
|
| |
|
|
| Miguel98 |
Posted on 05-06-2016 17:26
|
World Champion
Posts: 10231
Joined: 23-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
I don't believe this. One of the most promising riders in the peloton, who had an incredible future ahead of him... Just last week I was discussing with a friend of mine about him... |
| |
|
|
| tsmoha |
Posted on 05-06-2016 17:31
|
Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11786
Joined: 19-07-2010
PCM$: 300.00
|
Oh my.... That makes me sad indeed. Followed him since his stint in Australia/NRS.. What kind of horrible news.
|
| |
|
|
| Miguel98 |
Posted on 05-06-2016 18:12
|
World Champion
Posts: 10231
Joined: 23-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
So... it seems that Keaga is not death, but he is in critical condition in the hospital according to Dylan.
https://www.facebook.com/wayne.girdle...5027121641 |
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 05-06-2016 18:19
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5885
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
What horrible news, I actually met Keegan out on a ride up in the Dandenongs one day and had a brief chat to him, seemed like a really nice guy who loved cycling. Extremely sad to hear about this.
Here is a nice video of Keegan going for the fastest time up one of the most popular climbs in the Dandenongs
https://cyclingtips.com/2015/03/watch-...e-1-in-20/
Edit; Thanks for posting that Miguel98, hopefully he survives
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| aidanvn13 |
Posted on 05-06-2016 19:18
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 2784
Joined: 06-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Been speaking to his team mate all the while. He is in hospital and is very critical, but stable.
|
| |
|
|
| Miguel98 |
Posted on 05-06-2016 19:29
|
World Champion
Posts: 10231
Joined: 23-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
aidanvn13 wrote:
Been speaking to his team mate all the while. He is in hospital and is very critical, but stable.
Hope he makes it aidan... All the strenght to his team and family. |
| |
|
