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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 31-05-2016 20:30
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Tafiolmo wrote:
The Schleck Fan wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
The Schleck Fan wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
The Schleck Fan wrote:
Lol if Nibali and Kruiswijk are 81 there is no way Majka is 80.
I will make a long suggestion about the riders stats(who went to the Giro) tomorrow when my exams finish.
Not everybody on 81 or 80 is going to perform as they should due to pre-race condition and daily form. Kruijswijk is on 80 same as Majka and most of their other stats are similar, now in-game if Kruijswijk were to start the giro with great pre-race form and good daily form indicators and Majka poor pre-race form and poor daily form indicators then it's very possible that Kruijswijk could beat him after 21 stages by about 3 to 4 mins, which is what happened in real life anyway.
Now if Kruijswijk for example were to ride the Vuelta this year and not do that well, it's still not adequate to decrease him if he was good enough for 80 at the Giro earlier in the year as not enough time has gone by. Majka is now in the position where if he continues to underperform in the mtns then he would get a decrease at the next big mtn test but even then that depends on other factors like fatigue if he rides the Tour etc.
Stat form especially for bigger riders, is done over roughly a 6 month period or between GT's otherwise we would be shifting these riders up and down after every race which would be unrealistic as real life form wouldn't be taken into consideration. But maybe Majka was just very good at Vuelta against riders in poor form?
That's a point that we are aware of when doing stats and we know season fatigue plays a big part in shaping the Vuelta more than it does the other GT's. But around that time Majka was a rider that was on the verge of being 80 and I think it was a valid suggestion and he became an 80.
As we try to be as democratic as possible I'll certainly bring Majka up to the rest of the DB team whether he should be a 79/80 mtn and any others can post what they think here as well, which is probably the best way to decide him. Also if you are gonna downgrade Nibali you should downgrade Majka as well because the pre-race condition doesn't apply to Nibali according to you(general stat makers).
Now Nibali's different as he has an upgrade in RES and a REC almost the same as Quintana now to compensate. also before the final mtn stages Nibali wasn't always climbing 2 points better than Majka anyway something worth bearing in mind.
But as said a vote will come in for it anyway based on opinions here and with the team. Nibali was almost 3 and a half minutes better than Majka in the mountains despite losing almost 2 minutes to Majka in the total of Siusi MTT and Andalo where he was completely horrible. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 15:38
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 31-05-2016 20:33
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I'm not seeing him, so Matt would've removed him but will double check.
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| matt17br |
Posted on 31-05-2016 20:46
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Also if you are gonna downgrade Nibali you should downgrade Majka as well because the pre-race condition doesn't apply to Nibali according to you(general stat makers).
If Nibs is still 82 then it can be fine but with Nibali a 81 there is no way Majka should be 80.Also Kruiswijk should be 2 stats higher than Majka I think.
Nibali has always been on the edge of being an 81 instead of an 82. His Giro was maybe a bit better than his 2015 Tour, which would have got him an 80 or so if it wasn't for his previous results. His Giro, except for the last week, has been far from being exceptional or 82-deserving, again if we don't count the last week. He proved he's far too inconsistent of a rider to deserve 81, especially if we consider how he's more inconsistent in everything that is not a GT, compared to Contador, Quintana and Froome.
He has a good recovery to make him improve as soon as fatigue accumulates during grand tours anyway. PCM has got 13 stats, you should never only look at one.
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 31-05-2016 20:52
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matt17br wrote:
Also if you are gonna downgrade Nibali you should downgrade Majka as well because the pre-race condition doesn't apply to Nibali according to you(general stat makers).
If Nibs is still 82 then it can be fine but with Nibali a 81 there is no way Majka should be 80.Also Kruiswijk should be 2 stats higher than Majka I think.
Nibali has always been on the edge of being an 81 instead of an 82. His Giro was maybe a bit better than his 2015 Tour, which would have got him an 80 or so if it wasn't for his previous results. His Giro, except for the last week, has been far from being exceptional or 82-deserving, again if we don't count the last week. He proved he's far too inconsistent of a rider to deserve 81, especially if we consider how he's more inconsistent in everything that is not a GT, compared to Contador, Quintana and Froome.
He has a good recovery to make him improve as soon as fatigue accumulates during grand tours anyway. PCM has got 13 stats, you should never only look at one. In teh official release of PCM 15 Porte was winning the Giro with a low 70s recovery so secondary stats might not be that important
Also Nibali still crushed Majka even though he had 2 very bad stages. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 31-05-2016 20:58
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In teh official release of PCM 15 Porte was winning the Giro with a low 70s recovery so secondary stats might not be that important.
What?
We are very aware of the small recovery differences, which is why, as you might have noticed, we have Quintana something like 17 points higher than Porte in recovery and Nibali 16 or so. Froome, which struggles a bit in 3rd weeks normally, is 7 points lower than Quintana in V2.
Also Nibali still crushed Majka even though he had 2 very bad stages
Nibali has 81 mountain and every signle stat higher than Majka except Acceleration. Enough said. We haven't decided if Majka will be 79 or 80 yet so useless to argue about it.
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| matt17br |
Posted on 31-05-2016 21:14
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Wtf are you doing lordbenji? Do we really need to abuse the rating system with the result of not expressing an opinion at all?
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 31-05-2016 21:39
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Majka 79 IMO |
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| AndreasEng |
Posted on 01-06-2016 11:04
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By you guys logic of downgrading Majka, shouldnt Landa get 78? He was bad in the Vuelta, and not good in the part of the giro he was in. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 01-06-2016 11:11
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He was bad in the Vuelta? Seriously? 
I'd go watch that if I were you 
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| Selwink |
Posted on 01-06-2016 11:12
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He was bad in the Vuelta
and not good in the part of the giro he was in.
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| AndreasEng |
Posted on 01-06-2016 12:54
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Selwink wrote:
He was bad in the Vuelta
and not good in the part of the giro he was in.
What about the uphil finishes where he ended 22. 113. and 17. behind all the favorites? His victory was from an attack far out where they didnt chase him because he already lost 14 min.
He was beat by the top climbers on all stages other than the one win he got.
Edited by AndreasEng on 01-06-2016 13:01
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| matt17br |
Posted on 01-06-2016 13:01
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Are you maybe forgetting he was Aru's domestique, especially after his first week. No need to argue over that, anyway. We haven't even decided Majka's mountain and we're already arguing just for the sake of it.
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| AndreasEng |
Posted on 01-06-2016 13:07
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matt17br wrote:
Are you maybe forgetting he was Aru's domestique, especially after his first week. No need to argue over that, anyway. We haven't even decided Majka's mountain and we're already arguing just for the sake of it.
Rewatch the finishes, he was not any help to Aru in stage 7 and 9 for example, not a worthy of 81 if you only judge from latest races. |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 01-06-2016 13:18
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Landa is an 80 for me, needs to show more consistency for 81.
Anyway, Baptiste Planckaert got ignored on the previous page
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Anderis |
Posted on 01-06-2016 13:20
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Dunno if Majka should be 79 MO or 80 MO, I kinda feel the former would be more suitable, but what I'm sure is that he shouldn't have 76 acceleration. He usually has some troubles when the pace goes suddenly up. You could see very clearly during the Giro, he was usually one of the last top riders to react on accelerations. And he always has been like that IIRC. |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 01-06-2016 13:25
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No one has been able to follow Mikel Landa, when he was allowed to attack and not commanded to wait on Aru. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 01-06-2016 13:30
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Anderis wrote:
Dunno if Majka should be 79 MO or 80 MO, I kinda feel the former would be more suitable, but what I'm sure is that he shouldn't have 76 acceleration. He usually has some troubles when the pace goes suddenly up. You could see very clearly during the Giro, he was usually one of the last top riders to react on accelerations. And he always has been like that IIRC.
Which is why he got downgraded to 73
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 01-06-2016 13:31
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Ollfardh wrote:
Anyway, Baptiste Planckaert got ignored on the previous page ;)
Feel free to suggest stats for him, concering that they have to fit in the continental stats roster :) I agree with you that he might be the strongest sprinter from european CT teams, but that is reflected in his current stats.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 01-06-2016 13:55
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Croatia14 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
Anyway, Baptiste Planckaert got ignored on the previous page
Feel free to suggest stats for him, concering that they have to fit in the continental stats roster I agree with you that he might be the strongest sprinter from european CT teams, but that is reflected in his current stats.
In my opinion, he deserves a 74 sprint with 73 acc and 73 flat, decent back up stats endurance cobble and hill all in the low 70's because he's one of those sprinters that can handle the harder stuff as well like Theuns or Debusschere. I know that makes him kinda strong in the CT, but this guy is definitely PCT material.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 01-06-2016 13:59
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Anderis wrote:
Dunno if Majka should be 79 MO or 80 MO, I kinda feel the former would be more suitable, but what I'm sure is that he shouldn't have 76 acceleration. He usually has some troubles when the pace goes suddenly up. You could see very clearly during the Giro, he was usually one of the last top riders to react on accelerations. And he always has been like that IIRC.
Agree with both points: 79 MO and lower ACC. Majka is a diesel. I don't know what his REC is like, but that could be given a knock up considering he is very stable and hardly fades in the end like others. A worse Quintana, basically. |
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