|
Giro d'Italia 2016 - Week 1 (6th - 15th May)
|
| Paul23 |
Posted on 08-05-2016 01:35
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
|
Tbh, I quite like sprint-stages as much as I like mountain stages. A great GT(for me) has 5-7 flat or semi-flat stages 2 ITTs(maybe 3 with a prologue) 5 hilly stages and 5 real tough mountain stages. So every cyclist can have some nice stages. Also maybe add a special stage(f.e. in france: cobbles, in italy: "strade bianche" and in spain: whatever the fuck spain has)
I like to enjoy different stages and most importantly, different winners. Although I have certain riders, who I would like to see win more than 1 stage.
|
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 08-05-2016 05:48
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Yeah I have no problem with sprint stages as they are a slow build up to an exciting finish and a part of a proper Grand Tour, these to NL stages are flat and predictable in a way but they have also helped attract a quality sprint field which has helped with what I'd say is one of the more balanced GT routes and fields I have seen in a long time.
Also who knows if the wind had gotten up yesterday we might have been having a different conversation about yesterday stage
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 08-05-2016 10:49
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Fair enough.
I knew it would get a log of flag. When you are suggesting something new in the world of cycling, more than not, people don't agree. Its a traditionalist world. But I think it would make the product better.
Thankfully, we have gotten over the times where we started with 9 flat days. Now the first weeks consists of hilly sprints, hilly stages, lower mountain ranges, cobbles and all that good stuff. But in my opinion, we need to take it a step further. The last 10 kilometres of a flat stage is exciting, but what comes beforehand is generally as boring and predictable as Al Gore making every white man out to be a racist. Sometimes, you are lucking and get echelons - thats almost the best racing you can get.
But my problem isn't necessarily that. 7 pure sprint stages is too many for my taste, but what I really have a problem with is the fact that you start out with 2 of those on a weekend. I mean, the weekend is by far the biggest window to attract new viewers and get exposure, but that window is completely wasted when you are designing the route like this. I can't find one good reason to tell my mate why he should be watching it apart from me playing a a significant amount of money on the outcome.
Hopefully, gradually, the GT's will tilt even more to favour the more completely sprinters. The sprinters like Sagan, Matthews etc. who can overcome spectacles on a hilly day. Pure sprint stages, as I see it, is the bane of cycling. It isn't interesting to the masses. |
| |
|
|
| Waghlon |
Posted on 08-05-2016 11:29
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7694
Joined: 18-08-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Riis123 wrote:
When you are suggesting something new in the world of cycling, more than not, people don't agree. Its a traditionalist world.
I dont think you get to play the "new ideas"-card, when you want to throw out an entire aspect of cycling.
Long and flat stages that end with mass sprints have their place in a sport, where not every day has to include three hours of televised spectacle.
I agree that they shouldn't be placed in weekends, because weekends are when people have the time to actually watch the sport. But on regular weekdays, most adults only have time to come home and watch the last hour of a race. A simple narrative consisting of a breakaway being caught followed by an explosion finish from well known sprinters, works well for TV, if you can only hope to have the viewers for 60 to 90 minutes.
In the end, cycling is dependent on TV. If you "train" TV-viewers only to enjoy that cycling MUST be a spectacle every day, you risk them refusing to watch the race on days that don't look obviously exciting. It's the same with football: It's a 90 minute game that occasionally it ends in a scoreless draw, but people still watch it.
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
 |
| |
|
|
| Stromeon |
Posted on 08-05-2016 11:56
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
Joined: 06-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Paul23 wrote:
Tbh, I quite like sprint-stages as much as I like mountain stages.
Really?
Sure, the last 5km of a sprint stage can be quite exciting as you watch the leadout trains jostling for position and riders swarming all over the place, with the possibility of a huge crash always lurking round the corner. But for me it pales in comparison with the prolonged drama of a proper mountain stage, with riders scattered all over the road, the break suffering their way up the climbs trying to hang on, the leaders staring into each others' eyes in a psychological battle of strength, the explosion as one rider decides to make a break for it and throw the group into chaos, the tension of time-gaps - will he make it across, won't he, the thrilling hair-raising descents, the flag-waving, bellowing fans thronging the road (apart from the stupid drunk ones of course) and the dramatic scenery lending itself to the epic nature of the spectacle.
For me the main problem here is having these flat stages on a weekend, not the existence of flat stages full stop in a Grand Tour. I am only going to be able to catch the Giro live on the weekends and possibly on Friday afternoons if I scoot home quick enough, and I'm sure there are lots of people in my position. Thankfully, the Giro (unlike the Tour which is terrible at this) is usually good at scheduling the big stages on weekends - so this year we have the strade bianche stage and the ITT on the second weekend, the Corvara Dolomites stage and the MTT on the third weekend, and the French tappone on the fourth Saturday, with Cividale del Friuli and Risoul on Friday afternoons, which is the next best thing. However, for the first weekend we have two very flat sprint stages, which are never going to end in anything but a bunch finish. I appreciate the idea behind foreign starts in GTs, and they seem to be for the most part successful, with huge crowds lining the roads and a great deal of publicity generated for the race and indeed the sport in that country, but if it means wasting two weekend days it's just not really worth it. A few sprint stages isn't a bad idea at all on the weekday though if I just want to come home and watch a last kms package or so - although a flat stage with a bump near the end is invariably better than a pure flat stage, which is something I try to ensure in most flat stages when I'm designing my own GTs, for example.
Yes, the Netherlands is a flat country, but they could have made yesterday's stage more interesting if they had replaced the city circuit with a repeated circuit of the Berg en Dal, with the last ascent coming with about 15km to go, offering at least the opportunity for an attack. And it's not like this is a new thing: two years ago we had the exact same problem in Northern Ireland, with two flat stages on the first weekend. At least the Tour has managed to make its foreign départs more interesting, in 2015, 2014 and 2012 (sort of) for example.
|
| |
|
|
| Selwink |
Posted on 08-05-2016 13:50
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8856
Joined: 17-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Nasty crash of AG2R, seems like Péraud DNFs
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 21:10
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 08-05-2016 14:28
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Waghlon wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
When you are suggesting something new in the world of cycling, more than not, people don't agree. Its a traditionalist world.
I dont think you get to play the "new ideas"-card, when you want to throw out an entire aspect of cycling.
Did you read the post? I said I would very much like to reduce PURE bunch sprints to 3-4, not remove the aspect all together.
Similar to what Stromeon said, basically. Completely agree with his narrative but unfortunately, not many share that apparently.
Edited by Riis123 on 08-05-2016 14:31
|
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 08-05-2016 14:30
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Now we have eschelons, doubt it will cause havoc but it's nice to see them trying
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 08-05-2016 14:32
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
ou dear here we go echelons. Any news about ..who has missed it? |
| |
|
|
| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 08-05-2016 14:33
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Trek raiders like Hesjedal spent to much time behind yesterday..lets hope he did not did that mistake again today |
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 08-05-2016 14:37
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Guido Mukk wrote:
Trek raiders like Hesjedal spent to much time behind yesterday..lets hope he did not did that mistake again today
He has been up the front most of the day with teammates, oh and nobody big missed the split
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 08-05-2016 14:38
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Wind isn't really strong enough to catch many out but at least Lotto are making them work for it
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 08-05-2016 14:42
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Well looks like Demare and FDJ did miss the last split in the peloton
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| Waghlon |
Posted on 08-05-2016 14:50
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7694
Joined: 18-08-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Riis123 wrote:
Did you read the post? I said I would very much like to reduce PURE bunch sprints to 3-4, not remove the aspect all together.
In TDF, we have already seen reduced numbers of pure bunch sprints. And the Vuelta and Giro has never had a similiar emphasis on having pure bunch sprints.
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
|
| |
|
|
| fjhoekie |
Posted on 08-05-2016 14:53
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4476
Joined: 25-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Tjallingii <3
Manager of Team Popo4Ever p/b Morshynska in the PCM.Daily Man-Game |
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 08-05-2016 14:58
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Waghlon wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
Did you read the post? I said I would very much like to reduce PURE bunch sprints to 3-4, not remove the aspect all together.
In TDF, we have already seen reduced numbers of pure bunch sprints. And the Vuelta and Giro has never had a similiar emphasis on having pure bunch sprints.
Ahem, whats your point? I even noted in my post that we luckily are over the 9 days of flat and have been including small hills, cobbles etc. Again, did you read it? Seems like you didn't and just want to disagree.
There are 7 pure bunch sprints. I think 3-4 is better. Really nothing more to it, Waggy.  |
| |
|
|
| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 08-05-2016 15:10
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Riis123 wrote:
There are 7 pure bunch sprints. I think 3-4 is better. Really nothing more to it, Waggy.
name tdf 2015 7 pure sprint stages..
Giro has been race where Gc guys also hunting points jersey. I prefer when sprinters wearing and fighting for that jesrey
Edited by Guido Mukk on 08-05-2016 15:20
|
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 08-05-2016 15:25
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Riis123 wrote:
Waghlon wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
Did you read the post? I said I would very much like to reduce PURE bunch sprints to 3-4, not remove the aspect all together.
In TDF, we have already seen reduced numbers of pure bunch sprints. And the Vuelta and Giro has never had a similiar emphasis on having pure bunch sprints.
Ahem, whats your point? I even noted in my post that we luckily are over the 9 days of flat and have been including small hills, cobbles etc. Again, did you read it? Seems like you didn't and just want to disagree.
There are 7 pure bunch sprints. I think 3-4 is better. Really nothing more to it, Waggy.
Why do you keep saying that there are 7 pure sprint stages in this years Giro? There are 4 pure bunch sprint stages with the other 3 I'm assuming you class as pure sprint stages really aren't that, they all have opportunities for breakaway/attackers to get away or if raced hard to drop the out and out sprinters
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
|
| Luxemburger |
Posted on 08-05-2016 15:31
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1215
Joined: 22-07-2014
PCM$: 200.00
|
Strydz wrote:
Well looks like Demare and FDJ did miss the last split in the peloton
He's back meanwhile.
Amador was also back, did somebody see him back in the peloton? |
| |
|
|
| Strydz |
Posted on 08-05-2016 15:33
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5894
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 1625.00
|
Guido Mukk wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
There are 7 pure bunch sprints. I think 3-4 is better. Really nothing more to it, Waggy.
name tdf 2015 7 pure sprint stages..
Giro has been race where Gc guys also hunting points jersey. I prefer when sprinters wearing and fighting for that jesrey
Well when we had Zomegan planning those rediculously brutal Giro's the sprinters never had a chance to take home the points jersey, since he was sacked after the 2011 Giro and the routes have been less brutal a sprinter has taken home the points jersey 3 out of the last 4 editions
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
| |
|
