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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 10-04-2016 18:44
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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What do you think about Cobblets stats after Roubaix???
Hayman 78/79?
Erviti 76/77?
Come on!! Tell more suggestions for the next update!! |
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| irdalopez |
Posted on 10-04-2016 18:53
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Under 23
Posts: 75
Joined: 06-04-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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AiZaK wrote:
What do you think about Cobblets stats after Roubaix???
Hayman 78/79?
Erviti 76/77?
Come on!! Tell more suggestions for the next update!!
I think
Hayman 78
Erviti 75 |
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| emre99 |
Posted on 10-04-2016 18:55
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3332
Joined: 19-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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hayman 77, big upgrade on STA while erviti is 75 and upgrade on STA
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| Omloop |
Posted on 10-04-2016 18:57
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Domestique
Posts: 433
Joined: 08-01-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Here are some of my thoughts. Keep in mind that these are just the cobble stats.
Cancellara - 82
Vanmarcke - 82
Sagan - 81
GVA - 81
Boonen - 80
Degenkolb - 80
Stannard - 79
Terpstra - 79
Stybar - 79
Kristoff - 79
Boom - 79
EBH - 78
Rowe - 78
De Backer -78
Benoot - 78
Vandenbergh - 78
Thomas - 78
Roelandts - 77
Hayman - 77
Stuyven - 76
Trentin - 76
Oss - 76
Demare - 76
Haussler - 76
Erviti - 76
Kwiatek - 76
Debuschere - 76
Lampaert - 75
Saramontis - 75
Gatto - 75
Naesen - 75
Van Baarle - 75 |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 10-04-2016 19:23
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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^^ Sagan was the best and you overrate Etixx - Quick Step.
Little about Sagan:
#2 - E3 Harelbeke
#1 - Gent-Wevelgem
#1 - Ronde Van Vlaanderen
#11 - Paris-Roubaix (because of crash)
None was stronger on cobble in any of the races.
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Sagan - 81
Cancellara - 81
GVA - 80
Vanmarcke - 80
Boonen - 79
Stannard - 79
Degenkolb - 79
Kristoff - 79
Boom - 79
EBH - 78
Terpstra - 78
Stybar - 78
Rowe - 78
De Backer -78
Benoot - 78
Thomas - 77
Roelandts - 77
Vandenbergh - 77
Hayman - 77
Kwiatkowski - 77
Stuyven - 76
Trentin - 76
Oss - 76
Demare - 76
Haussler - 76
Erviti - 76
Debuschere - 76
Lampaert - 75
Saramontis - 75
Gatto - 75
Naesen - 75
Van Baarle - 75
Edited by Arberg27 on 10-04-2016 20:13
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 10-04-2016 19:41
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Omloop wrote:
Here are some of my thoughts. Keep in mind that these are just the cobble stats.
Cancellara - 82
Vanmarcke - 82
Sagan - 81
GVA - 81
Boonen - 80
Degenkolb - 80
Stannard - 79
Terpstra - 79
Stybar - 79
Kristoff - 79
Boom - 79
EBH - 78
Rowe - 78
De Backer -78
Benoot - 78
Vandenbergh - 78
Thomas - 78
Roelandts - 77
Hayman - 77
Stuyven - 76
Trentin - 76
Oss - 76
Demare - 76
Haussler - 76
Erviti - 76
Kwiatek - 76
Debuschere - 76
Lampaert - 75
Saramontis - 75
Gatto - 75
Naesen - 75
Van Baarle - 75
Very good, I only would change Kwiatkowski 77 |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 09:16
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| Polo_7 |
Posted on 10-04-2016 19:43
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Amateur
Posts: 14
Joined: 14-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Maybe Cav deserves a little update, a strong top-30 in his first finish, maybe a 73 or 74. |
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| AndreasEng |
Posted on 10-04-2016 19:46
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Free Agent
Posts: 108
Joined: 25-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Omloop wrote:
Here are some of my thoughts. Keep in mind that these are just the cobble stats.
Cancellara - 82
Vanmarcke - 82
Sagan - 81
GVA - 81
Boonen - 80
Degenkolb - 80
Stannard - 79
Terpstra - 79
Stybar - 79
Kristoff - 79
Boom - 79
EBH - 78
Rowe - 78
De Backer -78
Benoot - 78
Vandenbergh - 78
Thomas - 78
Roelandts - 77
Hayman - 77
Stuyven - 76
Trentin - 76
Oss - 76
Demare - 76
Haussler - 76
Erviti - 76
Kwiatek - 76
Debuschere - 76
Lampaert - 75
Saramontis - 75
Gatto - 75
Naesen - 75
Van Baarle - 75
Dont think Sagan and Van Avermaet should be on same stat and shouldnt Tony Martin be up there after today? |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 10-04-2016 19:53
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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AndreasEng wrote:
Omloop wrote:
Here are some of my thoughts. Keep in mind that these are just the cobble stats.
Cancellara - 82
Vanmarcke - 82
Sagan - 81
GVA - 81
Boonen - 80
Degenkolb - 80
Stannard - 79
Terpstra - 79
Stybar - 79
Kristoff - 79
Boom - 79
EBH - 78
Rowe - 78
De Backer -78
Benoot - 78
Vandenbergh - 78
Thomas - 78
Roelandts - 77
Hayman - 77
Stuyven - 76
Trentin - 76
Oss - 76
Demare - 76
Haussler - 76
Erviti - 76
Kwiatek - 76
Debuschere - 76
Lampaert - 75
Saramontis - 75
Gatto - 75
Naesen - 75
Van Baarle - 75
Dont think Sagan and Van Avermaet should be on same stat and shouldnt Tony Martin be up there after today?
Why not, they rode quite similar up to GVA's crash? And Tony Martin really struggled on the cobbles, despite being a beast on normal roads.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| alex199412 |
Posted on 10-04-2016 19:58
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Junior Rider
Posts: 39
Joined: 27-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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my suggestions:
Cancellara Gva sagan Vanmarcke 81
Boonen degenkolb teprstra 80
Kristoff Stybar 79,5 (depending on how much past results will be weighted)
Boom Stannard 79
hayman, thomas vandenbergh EBH 78
and of course van Baarle erviti and saramotins around 75/76 ish |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 10-04-2016 20:10
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
AndreasEng wrote:
Omloop wrote:
Here are some of my thoughts. Keep in mind that these are just the cobble stats.
Cancellara - 82
Vanmarcke - 82
Sagan - 81
GVA - 81
Boonen - 80
Degenkolb - 80
Stannard - 79
Terpstra - 79
Stybar - 79
Kristoff - 79
Boom - 79
EBH - 78
Rowe - 78
De Backer -78
Benoot - 78
Vandenbergh - 78
Thomas - 78
Roelandts - 77
Hayman - 77
Stuyven - 76
Trentin - 76
Oss - 76
Demare - 76
Haussler - 76
Erviti - 76
Kwiatek - 76
Debuschere - 76
Lampaert - 75
Saramontis - 75
Gatto - 75
Naesen - 75
Van Baarle - 75
Dont think Sagan and Van Avermaet should be on same stat and shouldnt Tony Martin be up there after today?
Why not, they rode quite similar up to GVA's crash? And Tony Martin really struggled on the cobbles, despite being a beast on normal roads.
Tony didn't really struggle on the cobbles. He worked his ass off today, while he was the only one to hold the peloton away. 76 COB should be fine for him. It also seems, that he got his nutrition wrong.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 10-04-2016 23:17
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Well I've been working quite a bit over the last few hours on not just the Roubaix stats but also comparing them now to the Flanders ones as well. For the simple reason riders with a decent hill stat can go well at Flanders when combined with their cobble (like Sagan) so some riders are better for the belgian cobbled classics.
Whereas those with a smaller hill stat but with a strong cobble will go better at Roubaix (like Boonen or Stannard) so I made some trade-offs with rider types here for the cobble stats, which involved mostly adjusted hill and some STA for these riders, as flat for a lot seemed pretty accurate in comparison.
In the end riders like Hayman and Erviti are going to have lesser main stats than they might deserve but stronger backup stats which could see them getting into breakaways etc. The problem is it's almost impossible to recreate these riders as they really should be.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 10-04-2016 23:41
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 11-04-2016 08:00
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Btw. Å tybar was ill whole last week and got romped by the dog crash at San Remo, which also influenced his classics season, so i would draw toio much conclusions from his not so great placements.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 11-04-2016 14:57
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Btw. Å tybar was ill whole last week and got romped by the dog crash at San Remo, which also influenced his classics season, so i would draw toio much conclusions from his not so great placements.
Thanks for that post as I was ready to drop Stybar a few cobble points and along with some other info I recently got, he'll at least stay 80 cobble.
@Omloop a pretty good list there and not too far away from some of the cobble stats done, even though this year a top end of 81 is only being used, as nobody is totally dominant to be 82. Cancellara should've shown that he was capable of being that but things just didn't work out for him.
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 11-04-2016 15:14
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Sprinter
Posts: 1765
Joined: 27-08-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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What about Sinkeldam and van Baarle cobbling? Also Wynants deserves 76 or something.
Van Baarle - 77
Sinkeldam - 75 atleast
Wynants - 76 (also he is bad at hill but good at cobbles so take that in consideration) |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 11-04-2016 15:25
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Van Baarle's 77 would put him on par with EBH, Roelandts, Lampaert and Thomas. His results have been good, but at the moment he is as low as 75 with better backups than average.
Sinkeldam is indeed a 75, while Wynants a 75 because despite his great PR, his results haven't been too good throughout the years. Just to give a comparison, Hayman has been put to 76, and so has Saramotins and Haussler.
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| Jorge14 |
Posted on 12-04-2016 08:14
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Stagiare
Posts: 184
Joined: 15-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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And about Marcel Sieberg(75) and Luke Durbridge 74? |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 12-04-2016 09:14
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Well I've been working quite a bit over the last few hours on not just the Roubaix stats but also comparing them now to the Flanders ones as well. For the simple reason riders with a decent hill stat can go well at Flanders when combined with their cobble (like Sagan) so some riders are better for the belgian cobbled classics.
Whereas those with a smaller hill stat but with a strong cobble will go better at Roubaix (like Boonen or Stannard) so I made some trade-offs with rider types here for the cobble stats, which involved mostly adjusted hill and some STA for these riders, as flat for a lot seemed pretty accurate in comparison.
In the end riders like Hayman and Erviti are going to have lesser main stats than they might deserve but stronger backup stats which could see them getting into breakaways etc. The problem is it's almost impossible to recreate these riders as they really should be.
While I agree Boonen doesn't deserve a 70something hill stat anymore, I think there's a better way to split up flanders cobbles/roubaix cobbles. If we make some flanders cobbled hills less cobbly, which I believe is possible by lowering the cobble difficulty of a few of the Flanders hills, the hill stat will be more important. As I said before, the Paterberg has sections up to 20%. At that point you don't feel the cobbles anymore, you only feel the hill.
I think this should favour riders like Sagan and Kwiatek, while the best "pure"cobblers like Vanmarcke and Boonen will do better in Roubaix.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| matt17br |
Posted on 12-04-2016 10:59
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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It'S not that easy however 
The paterberg,in most variants in the db, is set as either 1 or 2 stars, so the cobbles almost dont affect the riders performances, or if they do, the high gradients have a much bigger impact anyway.
After all, the gameplay of rvv is not that different from rl, and imo the game can differentiate types of cobblers well enough, so its not that bad if you ask me.
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| Fresh D |
Posted on 13-04-2016 19:24
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Free Agent
Posts: 104
Joined: 08-12-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Could you please upload two separate db's the next time you make a stat update?
Namely one without doped or otherwise retired riders and one with all riders that rode the important 2016 races, because Gavazzi and Demoitie f.e. are now out of the DB and wreck my beloved startlists.
That would be great.
Erviti should be made worldbeater in the coming update btw  |
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