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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 01-03-2016 22:30
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I think it's been mentioned several times over the last year that it's very hard to give good cobble stats for GT riders. Firstly if a GT contender wants to win a GT that has a cobble stage he's going to train specifically for it and his team will take care of him as well, especially if the team has cobbled specialists. Also because most of these cobbled specialist are more than likely going to be in the service a GT contender they'll be riding for him rather than themselves, which means a more compact group is likely to stay together over the stage.
I find these mid to late 60s stats actually work quite well for the GT riders in game. For example riders like Contender usually just hold on and for riders like Rodriguez it's even more of a struggle. One thing that is very realistic though from the game AI in the last two Tours I've played that are based on the last two real life routes with their cobbled stages. Is how the game AI on both occasions either had Thomas or Stannard protecting Froome which enabled him to finish well on the stage.
As for Pinot DH, as Matt said that's something that could be tweaked as he's probably better than his stats show, but still the worst from the GT contenders. DH is not a simple stat to do, because you simply have to be focusing on that particular aspect when watching a race.
As for Vanmarcke etc we all know he can ride as an 81 cobble rider, but he had a poor campaign in 2015 which makes it really hard to keep him at 81.. Stats are not solely based on just a couple of results but often over a period of time and that's how I judged Vanmarcke (in this case it was the cobbled campaign of 2015) had he been injured or had he crashed it would've been different. The guy punctures a hell of a lot, but that can't be used to defend his poor showing in 2015.
Also as said on another post, there's no need to debate over whether riders like Vanmarcke or GVA deserve their stats because the 2016 cobble classic are almost on us and everything will be revealed.
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| togo95 |
Posted on 02-03-2016 00:30
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Domestique
Posts: 442
Joined: 06-01-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Marek Čanecký from Amplatz would need upgrade of FTR to about 70 I think, he really goes in breaks on many occasions and vast majority of his results are from breaks. His climbing is also a bit better, he won mountain classifications several times. Tbh though he doesn't participate in many races with real mountains, was 11th once on a MTF in Okolo Slovenska. However, I would guess MO at 62-63 and HILL at 64-65 would be closer to reality.
František Šišr from Klein Constantia is a punchy sprinter, but his stats don't resemble that. He already won one bunch sprint in his first race this year. Other notable results: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
He is a similar rider to Erik Baška, both in terms of ability and specialisation. I would suggest Potential -> 5 (that's up to debate really, maybe 4 is enough), FL -> 66, SPR -> 68-69, ACC -> 69, HIL -> 66 and backup slighly up as well.
Tomáš Koudela is a pretty handy climber I reckon. His best result is from the hardest race climbing wise that he's done. I would upgrade his MO to about 65.
Edited by togo95 on 02-03-2016 01:17
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 02-03-2016 08:02
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
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togo95 wrote:
Marek Čanecký from Amplatz would need upgrade of FTR to about 70 I think, he really goes in breaks on many occasions and vast majority of his results are from breaks. His climbing is also a bit better, he won mountain classifications several times. Tbh though he doesn't participate in many races with real mountains, was 11th once on a MTF in Okolo Slovenska. However, I would guess MO at 62-63 and HILL at 64-65 would be closer to reality.
František Šišr from Klein Constantia is a punchy sprinter, but his stats don't resemble that. He already won one bunch sprint in his first race this year. Other notable results: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
He is a similar rider to Erik Baška, both in terms of ability and specialisation. I would suggest Potential -> 5 (that's up to debate really, maybe 4 is enough), FL -> 66, SPR -> 68-69, ACC -> 69, HIL -> 66 and backup slighly up as well.
Tomáš Koudela is a pretty handy climber I reckon. His best result is from the hardest race climbing wise that he's done. I would upgrade his MO to about 65.
to Sisr: He´s on our upgrade list already, with similar stats that you mentioned :)
to Koudela: he´s flying kind of under the radar by not being in a great team and with having no profile on many races he´s doing, great shout
to Canecky: good shout as well, we thought about him, and now your suggestion will play the major role on the stat basement of him
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 02-03-2016 08:05
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
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to the Pinot discussion: don´t forget that he took his first result of the year by a downhill attack (GP Marseillaise)
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 02-03-2016 08:28
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Why do RodrÃguez low REC?
He losing time in the first two weeks in the mountains (like Quintana and Hesjedal) but in the third week is he better (like Quintana and Hesjedal). We saw this again Vuelta last year, where he not only follow Aru in the first two weeks (like Quintana can not keep up with Froome and Hesjedal nor could follow Landa) but in the third week, he was a little better than Aru (like Quintana was better than Froome in third week and Hesjedal was closer to Landa in the third week)
Edited by Arberg27 on 02-03-2016 08:34
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| togo95 |
Posted on 02-03-2016 12:10
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Domestique
Posts: 442
Joined: 06-01-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Abel Kenyeres doesn't seem to be developing that well, if nothing else, at least his potential should be lowered imo.
Roman Broniš should definitely be downgraded, he's not competitive anymore.
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| miguejack |
Posted on 02-03-2016 12:22
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 321
Joined: 02-08-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Croatia14 wrote:
to the Pinot discussion: don´t forget that he took his first result of the year by a downhill attack (GP Marseillaise)
+1
Costa ~ Machado ~ Quintana ~ Gallopin
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| miguejack |
Posted on 02-03-2016 12:22
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 321
Joined: 02-08-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Why do RodrÃguez low REC?
He losing time in the first two weeks in the mountains (like Quintana and Hesjedal) but in the third week is he better (like Quintana and Hesjedal). We saw this again Vuelta last year, where he not only follow Aru in the first two weeks (like Quintana can not keep up with Froome and Hesjedal nor could follow Landa) but in the third week, he was a little better than Aru (like Quintana was better than Froome in third week and Hesjedal was closer to Landa in the third week)
+1-ish
Costa ~ Machado ~ Quintana ~ Gallopin
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 02-03-2016 12:25
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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Wow, feels like i hvn't seen a "+1" post in forever! I'm getting all nostalgic
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| miguejack |
Posted on 02-03-2016 12:33
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 321
Joined: 02-08-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Hehe. Feels like I'm the only one doing it ...
Costa ~ Machado ~ Quintana ~ Gallopin
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 27-11-2024 02:04
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 02-03-2016 12:39
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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You are, everyone else uses the ratings widget to either give a Like or a Nice Idea
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| matt17br |
Posted on 02-03-2016 12:41
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I'm not saying that is wrong but look at how he was descending 
Minute 16.30 on.
okay okay he hang on to it though 
Edited by Croatia14 on 02-03-2016 16:43
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 02-03-2016 12:49
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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TheManxMissile wrote:
You are, everyone else uses the ratings widget to either give a Like or a Nice Idea
+1 !
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| matt17br |
Posted on 02-03-2016 12:53
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Why do RodrÃguez low REC?
He losing time in the first two weeks in the mountains (like Quintana and Hesjedal) but in the third week is he better (like Quintana and Hesjedal). We saw this again Vuelta last year, where he not only follow Aru in the first two weeks (like Quintana can not keep up with Froome and Hesjedal nor could follow Landa) but in the third week, he was a little better than Aru (like Quintana was better than Froome in third week and Hesjedal was closer to Landa in the third week)
Because 2015 Vuelta was the only single time where that happened. Look at the rest of his GT results of the last few years, and even think about 2012's Vuelta where he lost the GC during the 3rd week. He really doesn't stand out as much as you think during the 3rd week... And you call 77 rec low? That's one point higher than Valverde, 1 lower than Pinot and Froome.
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| togo95 |
Posted on 02-03-2016 13:03
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Domestique
Posts: 442
Joined: 06-01-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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77 is quite high REC indeed, but he was also strong in the last week of 2013 TdF.
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 02-03-2016 13:19
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
Why do RodrÃguez low REC?
He losing time in the first two weeks in the mountains (like Quintana and Hesjedal) but in the third week is he better (like Quintana and Hesjedal). We saw this again Vuelta last year, where he not only follow Aru in the first two weeks (like Quintana can not keep up with Froome and Hesjedal nor could follow Landa) but in the third week, he was a little better than Aru (like Quintana was better than Froome in third week and Hesjedal was closer to Landa in the third week)
Because 2015 Vuelta was the only single time where that happened. Look at the rest of his GT results of the last few years, and even think about 2012's Vuelta where he lost the GC during the 3rd week. He really doesn't stand out as much as you think during the 3rd week... And you call 77 rec low? That's one point higher than Valverde, 1 lower than Pinot and Froome.
Tour de France 2013 ?
2012? So Wiggins 82 mountain? Do not use anything from 2012 in a 2016 DB, thank. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 02-03-2016 13:20
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Tour de France 2013 ?
2012? So Wiggins 82 mountain? Do not use anything from 2012 in a 2016 DB, thank.
So tell me, what REC should Purito be on? The same as Chris Froome, TDF winner, or even higher, so the same as Aru, who won the Vuelta on the 3rd week?
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| Selwink |
Posted on 02-03-2016 13:20
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8856
Joined: 17-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Oh god here we go again 
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 02-03-2016 13:26
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Tour de France 2013 ?
2012? So Wiggins 82 mountain? Do not use anything from 2012 in a 2016 DB, thank.
So tell me, what REC should Purito be on? The same as Chris Froome, TDF winner, or even higher, so the same as Aru, who won the Vuelta on the 3rd week?
RodrÃguez 80 REC.
Yes, Froome has much more in mountain stats.
Difference of RodrÃguez and Aru was time trial on stage 17. |
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| miguejack |
Posted on 02-03-2016 13:57
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 321
Joined: 02-08-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Purito in 78?
Edit: I think Purito's REC at 78 is ok
Edited by miguejack on 02-03-2016 17:56
Costa ~ Machado ~ Quintana ~ Gallopin
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
