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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| Anderis |
Posted on 25-02-2016 15:33
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Domestique
Posts: 471
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
That's not used to calculate the average since PCM 13. We don't know the current formulas.
Hmmm, maybe it's not used to calculate the value of AVG of given rider, but I'm sure it's used to determine which specialisation a given rider has.
I've made a formula for stage racers as 0,9 ACC + 0,9 MO + 0,1 TT (to get a sum much bigger than 1 purposedly) and all riders in the game suddenly had a specialisation of stage racer. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 25-02-2016 15:36
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Anderis wrote:
matt17br wrote:
That's not used to calculate the average since PCM 13. We don't know the current formulas.
Hmmm, maybe it's not used to calculate the value of AVG of given rider, but I'm sure it's used to determine which specialisation a given rider has.
I've made a formula for stage racers as 0,9 ACC + 0,9 MO + 0,1 TT (to get a sum much bigger than 1 purposedly) and all riders in the game suddenly had a specialisation of stage racer.
Yeah there's no doubt about it, just that average isn't calculated like that anymore 
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 25-02-2016 15:50
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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Or Sagan's [...] 80 REC is too low.
Care to elaborate on this one...?[/quote]I think Kittel 82 REC is high.That2s why either you should up the others or down Kittel's REC
PS: Post 2000 |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 25-02-2016 15:58
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I think Kittel 82 REC is high.That2s why either you should up the others or down Kittel's REC
PS: Post 2000[/quote]
I explained REC matrix a few posts above. There are no relevant results in support of an upgrade of Sagan in REC, for instance, so I'm not sure where that is coming from.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 12:45
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Bot Agent
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 25-02-2016 16:03
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Selwink wrote:
The Schleck Fan wrote:
I think he gets spend on the mountain stages and can't perform as much as he used to on the 3rd week stages.
Or Sagan's and Greipel's 80 REC is too low.
You're aware Kittel won the stage on the Champs-Elysées both times he finished the TdF?
Because he did shit in 15 of 20 stages before, taking it easy? 
While Sagan tried in almost every stage, Greipel worked for teammates and went on breaks. Kittel just cruised on sightseeing tour. Kittel on 82 recovery is really too high, 80 would do imo...
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 25-02-2016 16:10
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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I think Kittel 82 REC is high.That2s why either you should up the others or down Kittel's REC
PS: Post 2000
I explained REC matrix a few posts above. There are no relevant results in support of an upgrade of Sagan in REC, for instance, so I'm not sure where that is coming from.
I also think that Greipel's REC should be improved.You probably didn't see my edit to that post.What I am saying is Kittel's REC shouldn't be higher than Greipel and Sagan.
Edited by Forever the Best on 25-02-2016 18:21
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 25-02-2016 16:55
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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As this is very much a community DB all serious stat suggestions concerning riders like Kittel and Greipel etc will be looked at next upgrade, especially if they don´t perform or even perform better over the next few months.
Avin If you were taiking about mtn or TT riders etc I´d agree with what you´re saying about races like Dubai and Algarve etc. The fact of the matter though is that for pure sprinters the season is actually pretty short and in many ways for them finishes with the Tour. Which means that in these early season races they tend to hit peak form very early, So if Kittel is shining now the chances are he will also be shining in the Tour. For this reason sprint stats may well be the earliest to get right at the start of the season for most.
Thomas Mtn is a constant issue here but why do you think his cobble is too high, he was probably the most in form cobble rider last season until Flanders. His performances at E3 and GW proved that with 1st and 3rd. The argument that he does most of his work on the flat can´t be translated into the game, as the game AI on cobble races treats the cobble stat as more dominant and that´s how it will read both E3 and GW which is why Thomas needs a high cobble stat.
Olifardh Increasing other stats of Greipel is a dangerous thing to do as he could easily turn into another Kristoff and Degenkolb in the game but his stats will certainly be looked at, He´s proven he can ride the cobble classics well and we´ll see how he does in a race like the MSR (I´m assuming that he´ll ride it this year)
Anderis TVG cobble noted, always hard to do cobble stats for non cobble riders when they do quite well on cobble stages, Because cobble stages in GT´s throw up all kinds of surprises.
Schleck Fan Selwink mentioned to you that Kittel had twice won on the CE and if anything this demonstrates why his REC should be one of the best for sprinters, as here´s a rider that will suffer and struggle to get over the mtns and into the time limit but he can still then recover to win stage 21 of the Tour, the stage that every sprinter wants to win.
Avin Comparing Greipel and Kittel workrate in the Tour might be valid, but the game AI won´t take that into consideration, so for a sprinter and his REC all we can do is see how he does by stage 21 of the Tour or GT´s in general.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 25-02-2016 17:00
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| miguejack |
Posted on 25-02-2016 18:00
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 321
Joined: 02-08-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
As this is very much a community DB all serious stat suggestions concerning riders like Kittel and Greipel etc will be looked at next upgrade, especially if they don´t perform or even perform better over the next few months.
Avin If you were taiking about mtn or TT riders etc I´d agree with what you´re saying about races like Dubai and Algarve etc. The fact of the matter though is that for pure sprinters the season is actually pretty short and in many ways for them finishes with the Tour. Which means that in these early season races they tend to hit peak form very early, So if Kittel is shining now the chances are he will also be shining in the Tour. For this reason sprint stats may well be the earliest to get right at the start of the season for most.
Thomas Mtn is a constant issue here but why do you think his cobble is too high, he was probably the most in form cobble rider last season until Flanders. His performances at E3 and GW proved that with 1st and 3rd. The argument that he does most of his work on the flat can´t be translated into the game, as the game AI on cobble races treats the cobble stat as more dominant and that´s how it will read both E3 and GW which is why Thomas needs a high cobble stat.
Olifardh Increasing other stats of Greipel is a dangerous thing to do as he could easily turn into another Kristoff and Degenkolb in the game but his stats will certainly be looked at, He´s proven he can ride the cobble classics well and we´ll see how he does in a race like the MSR (I´m assuming that he´ll ride it this year)
Anderis TVG cobble noted, always hard to do cobble stats for non cobble riders when they do quite well on cobble stages, Because cobble stages in GT´s throw up all kinds of surprises.
Schleck Fan Selwink mentioned to you that Kittel had twice won on the CE and if anything this demonstrates why his REC should be one of the best for sprinters, as here´s a rider that will suffer and struggle to get over the mtns and into the time limit but he can still then recover to win stage 21 of the Tour, the stage that every sprinter wants to win.
Avin Comparing Greipel and Kittel workrate in the Tour might be valid, but the game AI won´t take that into consideration, so for a sprinter and his REC all we can do is see how he does by stage 21 of the Tour or GT´s in general.
Tafiolmo can always calm the storm
Costa ~ Machado ~ Quintana ~ Gallopin
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| matt17br |
Posted on 25-02-2016 19:53
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Here's the db, you can take a look at it now the db has been officially released.
EDIT: Take a look at a few posts later, deleted old attachment.
Edited by matt17br on 26-02-2016 16:19
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| Fresh D |
Posted on 25-02-2016 21:29
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Free Agent
Posts: 104
Joined: 08-12-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Stats are good from what I've seen in the screenshots.
Amazing work, thank you.
One minor thing I already noticed last year:
Valverde is just too strong with MO 81 coupled with his high RES stat, 80 would be enough.
At the moment he is better than Aru in climbing (both 81MO, Aru has lower RES, END, HI and ACC) and in 3D grand tours he is the Movistar leader instead of Quintana. |
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| Fresh D |
Posted on 25-02-2016 21:42
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Free Agent
Posts: 104
Joined: 08-12-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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When I am editing a DB according to my personal taste, I always end up separating the big guys by their rec stat additionally to the MO stat.
So if you say for example, Aru is slightly better than Landa in climbing, you give both 81 and one of them a -1 lower REC stat.
The same thing I am doing with the sprint stats SP and ACC to have a tighter sprint field altogether. Now Kittel is +5 points above Modolo and that's too much I think for example.
Someone mentioned that the stat differences between the higher stats are bigger than between the lower stats. Is that true?
Did you guys try to do a DB with 80 as highest stat? So that the best guy(s) in each discipline get 80.
I changed my personal DB last year that way and it works really good. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 25-02-2016 23:16
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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These are good points about Valverde and with his hill stat could seem OP, I agree he could work on 80mtn as well. From what I understand Cyanide are making some changes to the climbing stats in general and how they work for 2016 versión of the game. If that´s the case Valverde as he is now would be even more powerful than he is, so he´s another rider that needs to be looked at. I´ve even had him riding better in GT's than he actually does. If 80.5 existed as a stat, I´d probably given him that.
As for the 80 max in stats, the PCM Daily DB tries to respect the matrix of 83 max in main stats that Jesley and others helped to set up. Of course some riders don´t deserve to be put at 83 max, but all the DB is designed to function with this matrix, Changing this to 80 would involve restructuring the whole DB and 3000 plus riders !!!
The lower stats have been increased to 57 min if that answers your question, meaning that the differences at the lower end of the matrix are very little.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 25-02-2016 23:22
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 26-02-2016 06:30
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Valverde was stronger in mountains than Nibali and Contador in Tour, the best in the Ardennes classics and had a fantastic year. 81 Mou, 82 Hill and very good backup stats, fits perfectly, he deserves this! |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 26-02-2016 07:19
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Valverde was stronger in mountains than Nibali and Contador in Tour, the best in the Ardennes classics and had a fantastic year. 81 Mou, 82 Hill and very good backup stats, fits perfectly, he deserves this!
+1 |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 26-02-2016 07:40
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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The lower stats have been increased to 57 min if that answers your question, meaning that the differences at the lower end of the matrix are very little.
No I think fresh meant to ask whether it's true or not that there are higher differences between for instance (82 and 81) and (75 and 74) in 3D mode. Well, yeah that's very true, you'll notice that the 1 point difference between those 2 is bigger in those higher stats.
About the 80 db, if you ask me that's simply impossible to do without fucking up cyanides matrix. You'll have to adjust all the various xmls fixing development and so on, as well as changing and fixing all the 3100 rider's stats Tafiolmo mentioned. It could be that it even works decently after all, but the game isn't supposed to work like that if you know what i mean. I think simulation and all the other aspects of the game would have many problems with it.
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 26-02-2016 15:15
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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For next update Gilbert I think better +1 in Sprint (72)
Because there are many riders like Gerrans, Kwiatkowski, Albasini,... they are more than 71/72.
Gilbert is like that roders |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 26-02-2016 15:18
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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AiZaK wrote:
For next update Gilbert I think better +1 in Sprint (72)
Because there are many riders like Gerrans, Kwiatkowski, Albasini,... they are more than 71/72.
Gilbert is like that roders
Gilbert has got an acceleration/flat combo that will make his actual sprint seem higher than that, much higher actually. But you can't compare him to people like Albasini and Gerrans, his sprint should be lower than that  Also Kwiatkowski is on 72, which is not more than 71/72 is it?
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 26-02-2016 16:14
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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NOTICE
As most probably know there has been a problem with the installer which has naturally led to a delay in the new DB. Luckily though this has enabled us to fix a few stat errors and to also incorpórate some suggestions here to keep you guys happy.
Kittel will have the 82 sprint that most want, Greipel lower hill and better STA and TVG better cobble.
So as you can see, we do listen.
Matt's Edit: Attached DB
Edited by Tafiolmo on 26-02-2016 16:23
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 26-02-2016 17:14
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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'Its unfair, please give my favourite rider better stats'!! |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 26-02-2016 17:15
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Riis123 wrote:
'Its unfair, please give my favourite rider better stats'!!
Hard to rate Valverde higher than that
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