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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| miguejack |
Posted on 23-02-2016 19:49
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Neo-Pro
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Ollfardh wrote:
irdalopez wrote:
Hi!!!! newe Stats:
Roglic?
Luisle Sánchez?
Roy Jans???
Campenaerts?
Hollenstein?
De Tier?
Søren Kragh Andersen?
Jesús Herrada sp acc????
Sorry, but I think the DB guys have better things to do then to list the stats of a random bunch of riders.
Mate, are you mad? You don't need to be rude geez
Costa ~ Machado ~ Quintana ~ Gallopin
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 23-02-2016 20:52
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World Champion
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miguejack wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
irdalopez wrote:
Hi!!!! newe Stats:
Roglic?
Luisle Sánchez?
Roy Jans???
Campenaerts?
Hollenstein?
De Tier?
Søren Kragh Andersen?
Jesús Herrada sp acc????
Sorry, but I think the DB guys have better things to do then to list the stats of a random bunch of riders.
Mate, are you mad? You don't need to be rude geez
I don't feel I was rude. This is the stat discussion thread. Asking which stats a list of riders have, serves no purpose here except slowing down the people who are working on the DB.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| matt17br |
Posted on 24-02-2016 20:40
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
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Here are the top stats of the 2016 DB. You are welcome to argue about them but keep in mind that there are 13 stats in PCM and all of them count in 3D Mode, so just don't focus on the main ones only.
If we agree with any of the points made below, we'll implement the changes in a next stat/db update!
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| bob7 |
Posted on 24-02-2016 20:44
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Stagiare
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84 REC for Quintana is imo too high. He will never be tired. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 24-02-2016 20:47
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Directeur Sportif
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bob7 wrote:
84 REC for Quintana is imo too high. He will never be tired.
Not really, sadly the current REC matrix, as it was also explained by FreireCyanide some months ago, doesn't create too big differences, so if we were to give the same differences as we do in most of the other stats, it wouldn't create noticeable differences over a 3 weeks span, so we have to emphasize those gaps in our matrix. Hence why Quintana's REC is 6 points higer than Froome's, for instance. Keep in mind that the REC difference is instead far more noticeable among sprinters.
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| bob7 |
Posted on 24-02-2016 20:50
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Stagiare
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matt17br wrote:
bob7 wrote:
84 REC for Quintana is imo too high. He will never be tired.
Not really, sadly the current REC matrix, as it was also explained by FreireCyanide some months ago, doesn't create too big differences, so if we were to give the same differences as we do in most of the other stats, it wouldn't create noticeable differences over a 3 weeks span, so we have to emphasize those gaps in our matrix. Hence why Quintana's REC is 6 points higer than Froome's, for instance. Keep in mind that the REC difference is instead far more noticeable among sprinters.
I get it. Thanks for the explanation. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 14:48
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| Naxela |
Posted on 24-02-2016 20:54
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Stagiare
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Still don't think Landa deserve 81 too be honest. 
bob7 wrote:
84 REC for Quintana is imo too high. He will never be tired.
What do you mean? He is definitely the best recovery rider out of the climbers, he never had a bad day in three weeks races that i have seen, Froome might deserve to be upgraded a point or two imo.
New York Knicks - Bardiani CFS - AG2R - Millwall FC - Le Havre AC
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 24-02-2016 20:54
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World Champion
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Great stats, as usual! I'd up or down one on occasion by personal preference.
The only part where I have bigger corcerns is the sprinters. Is Kittel really that much above the rest if we look at his last season? I would keep Greipel and Cav closer to be honest. And I'm also against Greipel's hill going to 71, he never makes it over the Poggio for example.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 24-02-2016 21:05
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Directeur Sportif
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Ollfardh wrote:
Great stats, as usual! I'd up or down one on occasion by personal preference.
The only part where I have bigger corcerns is the sprinters. Is Kittel really that much above the rest if we look at his last season? I would keep Greipel and Cav closer to be honest. And I'm also against Greipel's hill going to 71, he never makes it over the Poggio for example.
To the Kittel question: I´m with you there I´m not sure he´s better than Greipel (at Algarve half of the peloton (including Kittel, excluding Greipel) took a shortcut which took Greipel out of position with 2 to go, it was amazing he stil finished second...on the next one he crashed...
To the Greipel´s hill stat discussion: upgrade is deserved due to f.e. his Eneco Tour performance, therefore the endurance got down for the Milan - San Remo issue
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| Kiserlovski01 |
Posted on 24-02-2016 21:15
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Croatia14 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
Great stats, as usual! I'd up or down one on occasion by personal preference.
The only part where I have bigger corcerns is the sprinters. Is Kittel really that much above the rest if we look at his last season? I would keep Greipel and Cav closer to be honest. And I'm also against Greipel's hill going to 71, he never makes it over the Poggio for example.
To the Greipel´s hill stat discussion: upgrade is deserved due to f.e. his Eneco Tour performance, therefore the endurance got down for the Milan - San Remo issue
Add to that his superb ride at last year's RVV, where he finished in 15th(!). |
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| Ascend |
Posted on 24-02-2016 21:34
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Amateur
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Degenkolb should be 79, no way he is as fast as Bouhanni + faster than Sagan and Viviani
Edited by Ascend on 24-02-2016 21:41
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 24-02-2016 21:47
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Kiryienka's TT stat seems a bit high to me. I'm aware that he's the current world champion, but in the last two years, apart from that race, he has a 0-4 ITT record against Tony Martin and a 1-3 record against Cancellara (the one win being a 2014 Bayern-Rundfahrt ITT). And I know that results from two years ago are not much of an argument for a current stat discussion, but I don't think that Kiryienka has consistently shown a level that justifies that stat (add to that his two ITT results so far this year). Especially if you consider PCM and what you can do with weaker riders against much stronger but exhausted AI riders late season.
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| miguejack |
Posted on 24-02-2016 21:52
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Ollfardh wrote:
Great stats, as usual! I'd up or down one on occasion by personal preference.
This to be honest
Costa ~ Machado ~ Quintana ~ Gallopin
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| matt17br |
Posted on 24-02-2016 22:09
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Directeur Sportif
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cunego59 wrote:
Kiryienka's TT stat seems a bit high to me. I'm aware that he's the current world champion, but in the last two years, apart from that race, he has a 0-4 ITT record against Tony Martin and a 1-3 record against Cancellara (the one win being a 2014 Bayern-Rundfahrt ITT). And I know that results from two years ago are not much of an argument for a current stat discussion, but I don't think that Kiryienka has consistently shown a level that justifies that stat (add to that his two ITT results so far this year). Especially if you consider PCM and what you can do with weaker riders against much stronger but exhausted AI riders late season.
We have considered this and in our opinion that is reflected by Kiryienkas lower PRL stat (which affects TTs until the 18th km). In fact, if you look at his results you'll notice he's mostly good at very long TTs and relatively worse at <20 km long time trials. Then again, PCM is very random in tts, so hard to get those stats right.
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| sammyt93 |
Posted on 24-02-2016 22:16
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Classics Specialist
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I think Stijn Vandenbergh should be 79 Cobble,if not 80.
I imagine 79 would be fine but considering how weak his Sprint and Acc stats are he might need to be 80.
I suggest this because he has quite a few top 5's in key cobbled races over the last few years and I imagine it will be hard for him to follow the leaders and lose the sprint like he does in real life on 78 Cobble.
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| jnz_1989 |
Posted on 24-02-2016 22:57
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What's the logic behind Contador's 82 on mountain? When he's at his best he is as good as Quintana or Froome. He has better secundary stats but still. Just trying to understand. Don't want to be rude.. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 24-02-2016 23:16
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Naxela Nah Landa is a great 81 mtn rider, By increasing Froome a few points in REC actually defeats the whole of point of the REC stat, because as Matt stated to have any noticeable differences you need to créate as much of a gap as possible.
Olifardh Greipel´s problem in MSR is as Croatia suggested STA and not his hill.
Croatia Putting Kittel at 83 was a last minute gut decisión, because I believe that he´ll return to the form of 2014 this year and show that he´s the best sprinter once again and believe that he´ll beat Greipel more often than not. If this is not the case, then I´ll look at him for the next upgrade, but to be honest he looks great this season.
Ascend Degenkolb is indeed nearer 79, but the problem is that it puts him too far below Kristoff, who is his big rival for most stats and races. Statting Kristoff in a sprint is straightforward as he sprints equally well in both stages and classics. Degenkolb though saves his best for classics and the stat matrix makes it very hard to recreate accurate sprint stats for Degenstache. Sadly we can´t see how well Degenstache will go anyway becuase of his terrible crash.
Cunego 2015 was a crazy year in TT and threw up weird results but one thing for certain was that Kiryenka was like a rock and the best TT rider. When I did all the TT and Pro testing when I was doing these stats, Kiryenka turned out to be the most realistic big TT rider to how they ride in real life. He´s geared up to perform over long TT´s where his combo of TT and RES will shine. When on form he can win the big races but overall he´s still behind Martin and Dumoulin.
Sammy Remember Stijn VDB is a domestique and not a leader, sure in any other team he would be a leader and I´d put him stat wise on the same level as Stannard for the cobble classics. To even think about increasing his cobble stat over riders like Stannard, Thomas and Boom would not be a good idea and would OP Etixx even more in these races.
JNZ Contador kind of ruined his awesome reputation by trying to do Giro and Tour doublé, also had Landa been Astana leader at Giro 2015 it would´ve been much tougher for him to win. personally despite winning Giro in 2015 I think he looked weaker than in 2014. Also I see him no stronger than Nibali when it comes to climbing at the moment. remember when doing stats it´s not just a question of purely looking at results but also gut feeling on riders and also how they´ll perform over the coming months (like I stated with Kittel above) Admittedly Contador is hard as he has an amazing track record but 82 felt right at the time.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 25-02-2016 02:24
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| jnz_1989 |
Posted on 24-02-2016 23:26
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@tafiolmo
Thanks for your answer. Makes sense and as I said it was only to understand |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 25-02-2016 06:24
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Nibali 81 mountain and 78 hill.
Contador 81 mountain.
Landa 82 mountain.
Froome 75 flat, 79 hill and 76 acc.
Edited by Arberg27 on 25-02-2016 06:41
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 25-02-2016 06:35
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Protected Rider
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jnz_1989 wrote:
What's the logic behind Contador's 82 on mountain? When he's at his best he is as good as Quintana or Froome. He has better secundary stats but still. Just trying to understand. Don't want to be rude.. Hahahaha Joke? Or you have not seen the Tour de France since 2009? |
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