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Race Routes Discussion
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| Stromeon |
Posted on 15-11-2015 12:06
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Dusen wrote:
Does anyone know when the Vuelta route for next year will be showed? 
Sometime around early January is the presentation I think. As always, some near-certain rumours will begin to filter through before that though.
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 22-11-2015 19:11
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Where can we find the profiles of the Grand tours from previous years? |
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| Wilier |
Posted on 23-11-2015 16:47
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clamel wrote:
Not sure if this is the correct thread, but I try...
I looked over the schedule for next years racing (2016) and to my surprise I saw "an old friend" returning.
Vuelta Ciclista a la Comunidad Valenciana
Put in first week of February.
Anyone know more about this race upcoming.
It has great tradition back almost 100 years, but gone some 10 years ago from the pro circuit as far as I know.
Last edition was in 2008. The initiative comes from Ángel Casero and his brother Rafa. He's convinced local politicians and found some sponsors to host the race. Budget is around 800.000 euros. They are looking to invite a handful of WT teams and to get live coverage for the race! |
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| Stromeon |
Posted on 23-11-2015 19:59
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It's quite difficult to give you a good answer to this question, as there is no one website that successfully gathers together lots of profiles from past years. I quite like https://www.bikeraceinfo.com/bicycle-r...races.html, it is particularly useful if you're trying to look for profiles in the last 15 years or so, although is a bit sketchy on the Vuelta. And when there are no profiles, it still lists the major climbs in most stages so if you really wanted to you could probably re-construct the profiles of most mountain stages using a mapping software, some knowledge and some research! It also gives some nice commentary and results, particularly on earlier GTs. Another interesting site is https://www.touratlas.nl/etappekaarten/, which gives you the stage maps for all the Tours de France, and also some (albeit rather vague) profiles for at least the mountain stages in most editions, although I haven't been able to find anything similar for the Giro or the Vuelta.
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 23-11-2015 20:00
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Stromeon wrote:
It's quite difficult to give you a good answer to this question, as there is no one website that successfully gathers together lots of profiles from past years. I quite like https://www.bikeraceinfo.com/bicycle-r...races.html, it is particularly useful if you're trying to look for profiles in the last 15 years or so, although is a bit sketchy on the Vuelta. And when there are no profiles, it still lists the major climbs in most stages so if you really wanted to you could probably re-construct the profiles of most mountain stages using a mapping software, some knowledge and some research! It also gives some nice commentary and results, particularly on earlier GTs. Another interesting site is https://www.touratlas.nl/etappekaarten/, which gives you the stage maps for all the Tours de France, and also some (albeit rather vague) profiles for at least the mountain stages in most editions, although I haven't been able to find anything similar for the Giro or the Vuelta. Thanks.The MTT to Avoriaz in 1994 Tour is sick! |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 30-11-2015 22:01
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Riis123 wrote:
I just went over the Tour de France-route which surprisingly looks like the toughest route on paper. I only did count 5-6 sprint finishes, altho all the race profiles havent been released. That's stage 2 (the stage by the sea in NL) and stage 5, 6, 7 and the penultimate stage on Champs. There are possibly 1-2 more, but those stages are in and around the Massif Central and doesnt exactly look like pure sprint stages. Looks more like breaks to me, but without the profiles its hard to predict..
Even if there are 6-7, its not a whole lot. Really good job to sorta minimize the pure sprint stage, especially from the first week and forwards..
Looks like another easy green jersey for Sagan. |
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 01-12-2015 17:47
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
I just went over the Tour de France-route which surprisingly looks like the toughest route on paper. I only did count 5-6 sprint finishes, altho all the race profiles havent been released. That's stage 2 (the stage by the sea in NL) and stage 5, 6, 7 and the penultimate stage on Champs. There are possibly 1-2 more, but those stages are in and around the Massif Central and doesnt exactly look like pure sprint stages. Looks more like breaks to me, but without the profiles its hard to predict..
Even if there are 6-7, its not a whole lot. Really good job to sorta minimize the pure sprint stage, especially from the first week and forwards..
Looks like another easy green jersey for Sagan.
he's talking about the 2015 TdF though which was another easy green jersey for Sagan and I was going to be rude by mosting a "prediction" basically telling what happend this year.
Spoiler I'm gonna go on a rude bet and predict that Dennis will win the prologue with 3 dutch riders in the top 9, with Cancellara taking yellow on stage 2 but loses the next stage due to him crashing out. Dumoulin also retires. Tony Martin then takes the yellow but in stage 6 won by Stybar he breaks his collerbone. Froome then takes the yellow jersey and keeps it until the end. Quintana and Valverde make up the podium. the rest of the GC guys are Nibali, Contador, Gesink and Mollema. Van Garderen is also having a good race until he gets sick and retires after the 2nd rest day
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| Stromeon |
Posted on 17-12-2015 11:26
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Interesting news starting to filter through about the route for next year's Vuelta. A MTF on the Col d'Aubisque is all but confirmed, and rumours are indicating quite an exciting multi-mountain stage, rather similar to the Aubisque stage of the 2007 Tour, that should look something like what I've drawn on cronoescalada below:
Burdincurutcheta is one of a group of awesome climbs in the French Basque Country, nestled in with Arnostéguy, Bagargui and Errozate and the like, incredibly steep climbs that the Tour has barely ever visited. Soudet is visited from the west, descending down the road to Pierre-Saint-Martin climbed in the Tour this year. This, like the Andorra stage last year, would not only be the queen stage, but be almost entirely outside of Spain again 
Rumours also indicating a return of the Alto de Aitana, for the first time since 2009. Familiar faces in the more recent past also set to make a return are Mirador de Ézaro, La Camperona, Alto de Naranco and Lagos de Covadonga (yet again).
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 17-12-2015 21:00
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Stromeon wrote:
Interesting news starting to filter through about the route for next year's Vuelta. A MTF on the Col d'Aubisque is all but confirmed, and rumours are indicating quite an exciting multi-mountain stage, rather similar to the Aubisque stage of the 2007 Tour, that should look something like what I've drawn on cronoescalada below:
Burdincurutcheta is one of a group of awesome climbs in the French Basque Country, nestled in with Arnostéguy, Bagargui and Errozate and the like, incredibly steep climbs that the Tour has barely ever visited. Soudet is visited from the west, descending down the road to Pierre-Saint-Martin climbed in the Tour this year. This, like the Andorra stage last year, would not only be the queen stage, but be almost entirely outside of Spain again
Rumours also indicating a return of the Alto de Aitana, for the first time since 2009. Familiar faces in the more recent past also set to make a return are Mirador de Ézaro, La Camperona, Alto de Naranco and Lagos de Covadonga (yet again).
Stromeon you're like an expert guide to mtn climbs both known and obscure, keep on posting. |
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| Stromeon |
Posted on 20-12-2015 23:51
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Stromeon wrote:
Interesting news starting to filter through about the route for next year's Vuelta. A MTF on the Col d'Aubisque is all but confirmed, and rumours are indicating quite an exciting multi-mountain stage, rather similar to the Aubisque stage of the 2007 Tour, that should look something like what I've drawn on cronoescalada below:
Burdincurutcheta is one of a group of awesome climbs in the French Basque Country, nestled in with Arnostéguy, Bagargui and Errozate and the like, incredibly steep climbs that the Tour has barely ever visited. Soudet is visited from the west, descending down the road to Pierre-Saint-Martin climbed in the Tour this year. This, like the Andorra stage last year, would not only be the queen stage, but be almost entirely outside of Spain again
Rumours also indicating a return of the Alto de Aitana, for the first time since 2009. Familiar faces in the more recent past also set to make a return are Mirador de Ézaro, La Camperona, Alto de Naranco and Lagos de Covadonga (yet again).
Stromeon you're like an expert guide to mtn climbs both known and obscure, keep on posting.
Haha thank you! I get a lot of my information from CN Forums; there are some real experts on cycling climbs there who know far more than I do.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 24-12-2015 23:55
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Stromeon wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Stromeon wrote:
Interesting news starting to filter through about the route for next year's Vuelta. A MTF on the Col d'Aubisque is all but confirmed, and rumours are indicating quite an exciting multi-mountain stage, rather similar to the Aubisque stage of the 2007 Tour, that should look something like what I've drawn on cronoescalada below:
Burdincurutcheta is one of a group of awesome climbs in the French Basque Country, nestled in with Arnostéguy, Bagargui and Errozate and the like, incredibly steep climbs that the Tour has barely ever visited. Soudet is visited from the west, descending down the road to Pierre-Saint-Martin climbed in the Tour this year. This, like the Andorra stage last year, would not only be the queen stage, but be almost entirely outside of Spain again
Rumours also indicating a return of the Alto de Aitana, for the first time since 2009. Familiar faces in the more recent past also set to make a return are Mirador de Ézaro, La Camperona, Alto de Naranco and Lagos de Covadonga (yet again).
Stromeon you're like an expert guide to mtn climbs both known and obscure, keep on posting.
Haha thank you! I get a lot of my information from CN Forums; there are some real experts on cycling climbs there who know far more than I do.
Especially one member stands out, wouldnt you agree?  I will be seriously surprised if a regular member knows 25% of the stuff which is written by him or she (or an alien from outer space, wouldnt be stunned), its quite frankly quite dumb.
P-N and T-A are all released. P-N is a super nice, T-A is pretty mediocre, but overall some good stages in both races early on in the season which obviously always is nice. |
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 15-04-2016 15:03
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Thinking about the TDF 2016 route there are some bad things.In stage 9 they could have went to Gallina from La Seu'd Urgell and then climbed Comella and Beixalis after finishing at Andorra la Vella making it a brilliant Gallina-Comella-Beixalis combo as cyclingnews forum's member Libertine Seguros posted it in the race design thread in his/her Vuelta
Then the 8.5 km of flat between Anglefort and Culoz in the end can prevent the attacks in stage 15.
Stage 18 and 19 seems very wrong.
I would have made the stage which includes Mont Bisanne finishing in Megeve.We can have a great stage instead of wasting Mont Bisanne.
Then I would have made a MTT of Le Bettex.Those two stages can be shifted.
Then the stage 20 should have Joux Plane-Joux Verte or Joux Plane-Avoriaz combo.I prefer the first option.
Edited by Forever the Best on 15-04-2016 15:10
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| emre99 |
Posted on 15-04-2016 15:17
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The Schleck Fan wrote:
Thinking about the TDF 2016 route there are some bad things.In stage 9 they could have went to Gallina from La Seu'd Urgell and then climbed Comella and Beixalis after finishing at Andorra la Vella making it a brilliant Gallina-Comella-Beixalis combo as cyclingnews forum's member Libertine Seguros posted it in the race design thread.
Then the 8.5 km of flat between Anglefort and Culoz in the end can prevent the attacks in stage 15.
Stage 18 and 19 seems very wrong.
I would have made the stage which includes Mont Bisanne finishing in Megeve.We can have a great stage instead of wasting Mont Bisanne.
Then I would have made a MTT of Le Bettex.Those two stages can be shifted.
Then the stage 20 should have Joux Plane-Joux Verte or Joux Plane-Avoriaz combo.I prefer the first option.
Stage 9: Looks okay, if you want also add a HC before the last climb, that won't be good.
Stage 15: Culoz has never yet welcomed the Tour de France.
Stage 18/19: Agree, a MTT would be better
Stage 20: I'd go for a summit finish.
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 15-04-2016 15:23
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emre99 wrote:
The Schleck Fan wrote:
Thinking about the TDF 2016 route there are some bad things.In stage 9 they could have went to Gallina from La Seu'd Urgell and then climbed Comella and Beixalis after finishing at Andorra la Vella making it a brilliant Gallina-Comella-Beixalis combo as cyclingnews forum's member Libertine Seguros posted it in the race design thread.
Then the 8.5 km of flat between Anglefort and Culoz in the end can prevent the attacks in stage 15.
Stage 18 and 19 seems very wrong.
I would have made the stage which includes Mont Bisanne finishing in Megeve.We can have a great stage instead of wasting Mont Bisanne.
Then I would have made a MTT of Le Bettex.Those two stages can be shifted.
Then the stage 20 should have Joux Plane-Joux Verte or Joux Plane-Avoriaz combo.I prefer the first option.
Stage 9: Looks okay, if you want also add a HC before the last climb, that won't be good.
Stage 15: Culoz has never yet welcomed the Tour de France.
Stage 18/19: Agree, a MTT would be better
Stage 20: I'd go for a summit finish. In stage 9 Arcalis is the final climb so there are gonna be barely any action.Also the last 70 km of the profile I posted should be used.Which means Bonaigua and Canto.Then at km 115 in the TDF profile they should join the route I posted in my first post.Then we can have 60 km of attacks.
Part 1:(until km 115)
Part 2:(from La Seu d'Urgell)
Stage 18 is a MTT in the official route.But the combination of 18 and 19 looks bad.What I'm saying is Le Bettex should be a MTT and the Megeve stage should have Mont Bisanne main climb instead of wasting that climb before a MTF on Le Bettex.Also Le Bettex MTT and Mont Bisanne stage can be shifted as well.
This is stage 18 officially:
Edited by Forever the Best on 15-04-2016 15:29
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 15-04-2016 16:43
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Posts: 3803
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emre99 wrote:
The Schleck Fan wrote:
Thinking about the TDF 2016 route there are some bad things.In stage 9 they could have went to Gallina from La Seu'd Urgell and then climbed Comella and Beixalis after finishing at Andorra la Vella making it a brilliant Gallina-Comella-Beixalis combo as cyclingnews forum's member Libertine Seguros posted it in the race design thread.
Then the 8.5 km of flat between Anglefort and Culoz in the end can prevent the attacks in stage 15.
Stage 18 and 19 seems very wrong.
I would have made the stage which includes Mont Bisanne finishing in Megeve.We can have a great stage instead of wasting Mont Bisanne.
Then I would have made a MTT of Le Bettex.Those two stages can be shifted.
Then the stage 20 should have Joux Plane-Joux Verte or Joux Plane-Avoriaz combo.I prefer the first option.
Stage 9: Looks okay, if you want also add a HC before the last climb, that won't be good.
Or are you talking about the profile I posted?Because that's not the official stage.Unfortunately they made a bad stage with Arcalis as MTF and it will be a boredom until the final. |
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| emre99 |
Posted on 15-04-2016 16:54
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The Schleck Fan wrote:
emre99 wrote:
The Schleck Fan wrote:
Thinking about the TDF 2016 route there are some bad things.In stage 9 they could have went to Gallina from La Seu'd Urgell and then climbed Comella and Beixalis after finishing at Andorra la Vella making it a brilliant Gallina-Comella-Beixalis combo as cyclingnews forum's member Libertine Seguros posted it in the race design thread.
Then the 8.5 km of flat between Anglefort and Culoz in the end can prevent the attacks in stage 15.
Stage 18 and 19 seems very wrong.
I would have made the stage which includes Mont Bisanne finishing in Megeve.We can have a great stage instead of wasting Mont Bisanne.
Then I would have made a MTT of Le Bettex.Those two stages can be shifted.
Then the stage 20 should have Joux Plane-Joux Verte or Joux Plane-Avoriaz combo.I prefer the first option.
Stage 9: Looks okay, if you want also add a HC before the last climb, that won't be good.
Or are you talking about the profile I posted?Because that's not the official stage.Unfortunately they made a bad stage with Arcalis as MTF and it will be a boredom until the final.
https://www.letour...age-9.html
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 15-04-2016 17:05
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emre99 wrote:
The Schleck Fan wrote:
emre99 wrote:
The Schleck Fan wrote:
Thinking about the TDF 2016 route there are some bad things.In stage 9 they could have went to Gallina from La Seu'd Urgell and then climbed Comella and Beixalis after finishing at Andorra la Vella making it a brilliant Gallina-Comella-Beixalis combo as cyclingnews forum's member Libertine Seguros posted it in the race design thread.
Then the 8.5 km of flat between Anglefort and Culoz in the end can prevent the attacks in stage 15.
Stage 18 and 19 seems very wrong.
I would have made the stage which includes Mont Bisanne finishing in Megeve.We can have a great stage instead of wasting Mont Bisanne.
Then I would have made a MTT of Le Bettex.Those two stages can be shifted.
Then the stage 20 should have Joux Plane-Joux Verte or Joux Plane-Avoriaz combo.I prefer the first option.
Stage 9: Looks okay, if you want also add a HC before the last climb, that won't be good.
Or are you talking about the profile I posted?Because that's not the official stage.Unfortunately they made a bad stage with Arcalis as MTF and it will be a boredom until the final.
https://www.letour...age-9.html But I get rid of Arcalis the final and add Gallina.Instead of only 5-10 km of action with the Gallina-Comella-Beixalis combo we can have 60 km of action.And it is a downhill finish at Andorra la Vella. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 15-04-2016 17:06
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For finishing on Arcalis, its a very good stage. The finale is intense and much different to 2009 - Sky can use those climbs to split the peloton completely. We dont need another DH-fnish since they are finishing at Lac de Payolle in stage 7 and also downhill in stage 8. A MTF on Arcalis with Comella and Beixalis is super fine IMO.
The stage to Culoz could have been better, but you can't again everything. The Tour is super mountain-heavy and we have 4 descent finishes already so its fine to include a little flat, altho it probably will hamper the action. But it creates opportunities for others.
The problem is the fact that the ITT isn't flat and I still miss a proper queen stage, apart from that, its a very good route. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 15-04-2016 17:08
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The Schleck Fan wrote:
emre99 wrote:
The Schleck Fan wrote:
emre99 wrote:
The Schleck Fan wrote:
Thinking about the TDF 2016 route there are some bad things.In stage 9 they could have went to Gallina from La Seu'd Urgell and then climbed Comella and Beixalis after finishing at Andorra la Vella making it a brilliant Gallina-Comella-Beixalis combo as cyclingnews forum's member Libertine Seguros posted it in the race design thread.
Then the 8.5 km of flat between Anglefort and Culoz in the end can prevent the attacks in stage 15.
Stage 18 and 19 seems very wrong.
I would have made the stage which includes Mont Bisanne finishing in Megeve.We can have a great stage instead of wasting Mont Bisanne.
Then I would have made a MTT of Le Bettex.Those two stages can be shifted.
Then the stage 20 should have Joux Plane-Joux Verte or Joux Plane-Avoriaz combo.I prefer the first option.
Stage 9: Looks okay, if you want also add a HC before the last climb, that won't be good.
Or are you talking about the profile I posted?Because that's not the official stage.Unfortunately they made a bad stage with Arcalis as MTF and it will be a boredom until the final.
https://www.letour...age-9.html But I get rid of Arcalis the final and add Gallina.Instead of only 5-10 km of action with the Gallina-Comella-Beixalis combo we can have 60 km of action.And it is a downhill finish at Andorra la Vella.
It doesn't work like that. It could very well end up being a borefest, its high-risk, high-reward, but finishing the Pyrenees without a MTF isn't optimal with 3 descent finishes in a row. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 15-04-2016 17:24
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Schleck-Fan: Also remember that the stage makers on CN has a biiiiig fetish with the hard climb-easy climb theory. Sometimes, it creates memorable racing (Mortirolo Aprica is the PERFECT example, but also think Finestre-Sestriere and Giau-Valparaolo from this year's route, even Brixen-Andalo and Lombarde+Sant Anna from 2016 also), but you have to have incentives to go from afar. you can't just throw 3 downhill finales in without a decent ITT in the first mountain chain. People will wait for the ITT, Ventoux and the Alps.
Im by no means a opponent of the theory, the best routes include a few of those stages or more (can you ever remember when Mortiolo-Aprica is boring), but you just can't throw these combos in mindlessly and expect people to race from 60 km out day in-day out. It needs to be balanced out. |
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