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Professional Cycling Reborn - Talent Scouting. Deadline passed (so hurry up!)
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 08-10-2015 09:43
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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I'd rather see the weak teams go instead of voting on other based on peoples desires for the free agency. To me it just makes a lot more sense, as well as being nice and simple
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 08-10-2015 09:50
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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I'll miss the Novo Nordisk jokes, but best to get rid of them. Same with Marc De Maar, it will be a shame if he can't steal one big race from a breakaway. Neri are just a bunch of dopers, so I would be in favour of getting rid of them as well.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Bikex |
Posted on 08-10-2015 16:38
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Team Leader
Posts: 7257
Joined: 25-08-2012
PCM$: 600.00
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First choice:
Team name: Giant
Focus nation: Netherlands
Calendar focus 2: Germany-Austria
Calendar focus 3: France
EPIC rider name: Juan Alberto Juárez
Team wish: FA
I'll sack Mathieu Sprick and Thomas Peterson |
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 11-10-2015 10:49
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
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I would say Novo, Neri and Drapac out...Neri for being dopeheads, Novo and Drapac just because they are weaker than all others in this DB...
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 11-10-2015 20:57
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Team Leader
Posts: 6795
Joined: 21-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Time for the drafting to open. In total there will be 19 rounds distributed on teams as seen in the spoiler:
Spoiler | Team name | Manager | Div | Roster Size | Max Roster | Draft rnds | | Adria Mobil | Croatia14 | PCT | 7 | 26 | 19 | | Euskadi | Atlantius | PCT | 12 | 26 | 14 | | Bardiani CSF | trekbmc | PCT | 14 | 26 | 12 | | Torku-Åžekerspor | The Schleck Fan | PCT | 14 | 26 | 12 | | Orica - GreenEdge | jandal7 | WT | 24 | 30 | 6 | | Lotto - Soudal | Marcovdw | WT | 24 | 30 | 6 | | Astana | Smowz | WT | 25 | 30 | 5 | | Lampre Merida | sutty68 | WT | 26 | 30 | 4 | | Tinkoff - Saxo | sgdanny | WT | 27 | 30 | 3 | | AG2R La Mondiale | DaveTwoBob | WT | 27 | 30 | 3 | | FDJ.fr | TheManxMissile | WT | 27 | 30 | 3 | | Movistar Team | PeterRyder | WT | 27 | 30 | 3 | | Garmin | JoeArmstrong13 | WT | 27 | 30 | 3 | | MTN-Qhubeka | Selwink | PCT | 23 | 26 | 3 | | Omega Pharma - Quick Step | Ollfardh | WT | 28 | 30 | 2 | | Europcar | SSJ2Luigi | WT | 28 | 30 | 2 | | Cannondale | mvhoogdalem | WT | 28 | 30 | 2 | | IAM Cycling | Shonak | PCT | 24 | 26 | 2 | | BMC Racing Team | brewers90 | WT | 28 | 30 | 2 | | Giant | Bikex | WT | 28 | 30 | 2 | | Topsport Vlaanderen - Baloise | Ian Butler | PCT | 25 | 26 | 1 | | SKY Procycling | jaxika | WT | 29 | 30 | 1 |
Since the first 5 rounds only include one team I'll just let Croatia14 pick the first five riders for hos team and then the full randomized draft order will be posted while he is thinking.
All should be aware that it won't be allowed to sign 30+ aged riders from outside your home country until the last 2 rounds and there will be restrictions for young riders as seen in the spoiler.
Spoiler | Round -19 | U23 only from target country | | Round -18 | U23 only from target country | | Round -17 | U23 only from target country | | Round -16 | U23 only from target country | | Round -15 | U23 only from target country | | Round -14 | U23 only from target country | | Round -13 | U23 only from target country | | Round -12 | U23 only from target country | | Round -11 | U22 only from target country | | Round -10 | U22 only from target country | | Round -9 | U22 only from target country | | Round -8 | U21 only from target country | | Round -7 | U21 only from target country | | Round -6 | U20 only from target country | | Round -5 | U20 only from target country | | Round -4 | No restrictions | | Round -3 | No restrictions | | Round -2 | No restrictions | | Round -1 | No restrictions |
Rounds are named in a negative order to make it easier for everyone to keep track of in which round your team will join the draft.
Except for the above mentioned restrictions on young and old riders all FA's and CT riders are eligible for drafting. CT teams will be given suiting replacements from FA chosen by me at the end of the drafting since they will still be racing and this needs riders on their teams.
Also note that declining ages have been randomized by an automated function in Excel. The declining ages will be between 30 and 36 years with the exception that no rider will be given a declining age lower than his current age. The declining ages will remain hidden.
The DB has been updated to include ages instead of birthdate and division-sorting on riders and is as such ready for you to make shortlists.
Link to DB: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4hxfjaniw3z....xlsx?dl=0
Also Novo Nordisk and Drapac got relegated for being the two clearly worst team. Above them the teams were much much closer. The final relegated team is Neri for being dope-heads. That means riders from those three teams are available for drafting as any other CT-riders.
Round 2 of drafting will begin when Adria Mobil have selected their first new riders.
Edited by Atlantius on 12-10-2015 09:15
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 11-10-2015 21:36
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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Is drafting an obligation? I have 25 riders and am comfortable with that number  |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 11-10-2015 21:42
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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So teams that are relatively empty can pretty much draft their entire team before the fuller teams get a chance?
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 06:21
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| IP: None |
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 11-10-2015 21:43
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World Champion
Posts: 11395
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
So teams that are relatively empty can pretty much draft their entire team before the fuller teams get a chance?
This.
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
2x  x2
2x  x2 |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 11-10-2015 23:03
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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I disagree with the way the draft will be run, to an extent. To me it would make more sense to have everyone drafting at the same time until they are finished and then just continue with whoever else has space towards the end. That said if the draft restrictions are as i understand them, Adria then can only sign Slovenian riders for the first 15 rounds (and i have a suspician Slovenia doesn't have 15 U23 riders), then it works because those teams can't just stack the biggest talents. Although in that system Euskadi and Bardini do very well, as does pretty much any team from it's own area like Orica or Astana whilst teams from popular areas like France or Belgium get kinda f*cked comparitively speaking.
I'm also slightly confused by target country. Is this your teams registered nation (eg FDJ=France, Euskadi=Spain, Torku=Turkey, Sky=GB, BMC=Swiss etc) or is this your Focus nation(s) (eg Giant=Netherlands,Germany,Austria,France etc)?
All that said it makes very little difference to me and FDJ. As in EPIC i'm going for that 100% thing so i was only gonna go for U23 riders from France.
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| jaxika |
Posted on 12-10-2015 07:00
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3148
Joined: 16-07-2008
PCM$: 9200.00
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jandal7 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
So teams that are relatively empty can pretty much draft their entire team before the fuller teams get a chance?
This.
This was stated early in the first page, so everyone know this when joined to the game  |
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| jaxika |
Posted on 12-10-2015 08:34
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3148
Joined: 16-07-2008
PCM$: 9200.00
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Atlantius wrote:
In deed this is not the EPIC DB, so you're back with a WT-Lampre
Also for the record I just want to point out that you don't have to sack riders- You're welcome to, I'm just a bit surprised how many want to get rid of riders looking at who's available in FA.
The DB is btw updated continually to feflect new FA's. Now it also has some overall rankings for the riders as well.
And this.
Atlantius warned everybody abozt sacking and drafting in this post. |
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 12-10-2015 08:42
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Team Leader
Posts: 6795
Joined: 21-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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jaxika wrote:
jandal7 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
So teams that are relatively empty can pretty much draft their entire team before the fuller teams get a chance?
This.
This was stated early in the first page, so everyone know this when joined to the game
This
The intention of the draft is not to strengthen the big teams but to level the playing field a bit. In fact when sorting by average many of the best riders in the draft were sacked by WT riders so it's not like you'll be able to build a team that can destroy everything in the draft. Murislo Fischer on paper the 10th best rider available when ignoring restrictions...
TheManxMissile wrote:
I disagree with the way the draft will be run, to an extent. To me it would make more sense to have everyone drafting at the same time until they are finished and then just continue with whoever else has space towards the end.
I want the small teams to have first pick of the best left-over riders as they generally have the worst rosters. A way to level out the playinig field a bit.
That said if the draft restrictions are as i understand them, Adria then can only sign Slovenian riders for the first 15 rounds (and i have a suspician Slovenia doesn't have 15 U23 riders), then it works because those teams can't just stack the biggest talents. Although in that system Euskadi and Bardini do very well, as does pretty much any team from it's own area like Orica or Astana whilst teams from popular areas like France or Belgium get kinda f*cked comparitively speaking.
The nationality restriction only apply to young and old riders. Riders aged 24-29 are free game. I think I will add a regionality restriction until the rounds where most teams join in as it wasn't the origianl idea to give on team as big an advantage as it has. Perhaps I should haven't allowed sackings for CT but that is too late now.
I'm also slightly confused by target country. Is this your teams registered nation (eg FDJ=France, Euskadi=Spain, Torku=Turkey, Sky=GB, BMC=Swiss etc) or is this your Focus nation(s) (eg Giant=Netherlands,Germany,Austria,France etc)?
Focus nation as in the nation put as focus nation in the sign-up.
I will impose a few bigger restrictions until round -6 though. Details will follow when round 2 begins.
Ian Butler wrote:
Is drafting an obligation? I have 25 riders and am comfortable with that number
No. You do not have to draft anyone if you don't want to. Also any team is free to say that they don't want to draft anyone in a specific round. They may even reenter the draft in later rounds.
Edited by Atlantius on 12-10-2015 08:51
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 12-10-2015 09:39
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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I just hope there are the restrictions ensure there will be some talents left for the WT. I mean, so many teams have Benelux as 2nd or 3rd focus that together with Topsport and Lotto they can clear out Belgium before I have a chance to draft
Edited by Ollfardh on 12-10-2015 09:49
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 12-10-2015 09:46
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Team Leader
Posts: 6795
Joined: 21-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Using Excels function to produce random numbers and sorting by lowest this became the draft order:
It runs as a serpentine so the highest placed in the list gets first pick in uneven rounds and the last gets first pick in even rounds. Order and participants for each rounds can be seen in the above picture.
For the following rounds there will be further restrictions apart from the already mentioned age restrictions, which for youg riders are:Spoiler | Young Riders | | Round -19 | U23 only from target country | | Round -18 | U23 only from target country | | Round -17 | U23 only from target country | | Round -16 | U23 only from target country | | Round -15 | U23 only from target country | | Round -14 | U23 only from target country | | Round -13 | U23 only from target country | | Round -12 | U23 only from target country | | Round -11 | U22 only from target country | | Round -10 | U22 only from target country | | Round -9 | U22 only from target country | | Round -8 | U21 only from target country | | Round -7 | U21 only from target country | | Round -6 | U20 only from target country | | Round -5 | U20 only from target country | | Round -4 | No restrictions | | Round -3 | No restrictions | | Round -2 | No restrictions | | Round -1 | No restrictions |
Riders 30 years or older can only be signed from your target country until the final 2 rounds where everyone is available.
For Rounds 14+13 there may only be signed riders from target country with a max age of 25 years.
For Rounds 12-6 you may only sign riders from the region of your target country. The team affected can see the countries in ther region in the spoiler:Spoiler | Adria | Torku | Euskadi | Bardiani | Orica | Lotto | | SLO | SLO | ESP | ITA | AUS | BEL | | TUR | TUR | | | NZL | | | CRO | CRO | | | | | | SER | SER | | | | | | BUL | BUL | | | | | | GRE | GRE | | | | | | ISR | ISR | | | | | | ALB | ALB | | | | | | MKD | MKD | | | | | | CYP | CYP | | | | |
In round one Adria Mobil drafted: Pibernik, Tvetcov, Rabottini, Ponzi, Eric Young.
I'm updating the DB to reflect this within 10 minutes max.
Please send in Rounds 14-12 managers of Adria, Euskadi, Bardiani and Torku. No deadline but fast respones will be much appreciated.
If anyone knows they will be gone for a longer period of time feel free to send in an extensive draft list for me to use.
Lists are to be sent to me via PM in the following style:
Rider 1
Rider 2
Rider 3
Rider 4
...
If your list isn't long enough due to ineligible riders or riders getting drafted by other teams before your turn you just don't get any rider in that draft round.
The lists may be one round at a time or several rounds at a time. Riders have to be eligible to all rounds covered by the list.
Edited by Atlantius on 12-10-2015 09:56
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 12-10-2015 09:55
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
PCM$: 700.00
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I'm a little bit confused on this, at this point for Bardiani is it 3 Italian riders, all under 23 or is it something else?
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 12-10-2015 10:02
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Team Leader
Posts: 6795
Joined: 21-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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trekbmc wrote:
I'm a little bit confused on this, at this point for Bardiani is it 3 Italian riders, all under 23 or is it something else?
Sorry if I have been unclear.
For these rounds you may only sign Italians. Since you are not part of the first two rounds there is no age restriction and since you're region only covers Italy there is no special U23 consideration. That still affects teams like Adria and Torku, whose regions cover more countries, but can only sign U23's from their focus nation.
You just have to produce a list of Italians.
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 12-10-2015 10:04
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
PCM$: 700.00
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Cool, thanks
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 12-10-2015 10:15
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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I have more questions about fairness
Simply put, it's not mathematically fair. Because of the way the Draft is ordered teams at the lower end are at a disadvantage compared to those at the top (if that makes sense). For mathematical fairness a serpentine needs certain critera, number one of which is a consistent and even number of rounds.
Sky get #9 in R-1 whilst Topsport get #18 in R-1. Topsport, as well as being a worse team anyway, are disadvantaged against Sky because they don't have a reversal round.
Any team that has an odd number of rounds (Sky, TSV, Movistar, Garmin, MTN, Tinkoff, IAM, ALM and FDJ) the same as other teams can end up less well off. Movistar end up better off than FDJ over three rounds, and a decent amount better off at that. Movistar end up better off than any other team that also does three rounds. Conversely FDJ end up worse off than any team that does three rounds.
Plus it's not actually mathematically fair on teams that do the same number of even rounds. Cannondale are better off than BMC (albeit only just). Torku are better off than Bardini. Orica are better off than Tinkoff.
TL;DR Under no mathematics is the draft fair using a serpentine system, and under that set-up i don't think it can be made mathematically fair at all.
(i've spent way too much time discussing Drafts on Daily over the years  )
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 12-10-2015 10:22
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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Cycling isn't fair.
The end |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 12-10-2015 10:23
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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I think i may also be quite confused by the various restrictions and stuff as well... It's hard to know what you don't know
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
