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What is the ffect of favourite weather/temp and disliked weather/temp?
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| Fresh D |
Posted on 01-09-2015 16:03
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Free Agent
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By viewing some known rider's profiles you can see their favourite and their disliked weather and temperature conditions.
So I'm curious to know which effect these preferences have on the stats, yellow, red and green bars and so on and if there even exists an effect?
Favourite races and goals on the other hand do not seem to have any impact on the rider's performances in these races, someone posted a few months ago, I think.
The nationality bonus is irrelevant, too, I learned the last days in my thread about it.
Thanks |
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| coolrex |
Posted on 01-09-2015 16:08
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1168
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Fresh D wrote:
By viewing some known rider's profiles you can see their favourite and their disliked weather and temperature conditions.
So I'm curious to know which effect these preferences have on the stats, yellow, red and green bars and so on and if there even exists an effect?
Favourite races and goals on the other hand do not seem to have any impact on the rider's performances in these races, someone posted a few months ago, I think.
The nationality bonus is irrelevant, too, I learned the last days in my thread about it.
Thanks
Goals depend on Favourite Races
Weather and temperature will effect daily form |
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| FreireCyanide |
Posted on 01-09-2015 23:02
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Junior Rider
Posts: 32
Joined: 02-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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coolrex is right. weather affects the daily form, what i call "day feelings" (-5 to +5).
it's not a major parameter.
favorite race has absolutely not impact on the performance, it's used by career's process (like Goals choice, or other choices that i don't have in mind atm)
nationality bonus: is a myth I think  (it had some minor effects in the past) |
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| coolrex |
Posted on 02-09-2015 06:09
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Protected Rider
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nationality bonus is removed from the database since pcm 2015.
and it had almost zero effects in pcm 2014 |
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| FreireCyanide |
Posted on 02-09-2015 08:25
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Junior Rider
Posts: 32
Joined: 02-02-2008
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hum not really. in PCM2014 it the same effect as in PCM2015 (= 0 effect), that's definitely not something we changed this year (it was maybe removed between 3 & 6 years ago but i don't remember exactly).
What you see in the DB doesn't mean it's in production or not. you can have an obsolet table still in the DB while the code is not there anymore.
+ it was not something stored in the DB anyway (you are probably talking about a row with nationaly but which was not related to this bonus we're talking here) |
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| Dusen |
Posted on 02-09-2015 09:08
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Protected Rider
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FreireCyanide wrote:
hum not really. in PCM2014 it the same effect as in PCM2015 (= 0 effect), that's definitely not something we changed this year (it was maybe removed between 3 & 6 years ago but i don't remember exactly).
What you see in the DB doesn't mean it's in production or not. you can have an obsolet table still in the DB while the code is not there anymore.
+ it was not something stored in the DB anyway (you are probably talking about a row with nationaly but which was not related to this bonus we're talking here)
So a riders prefered weather has no inpact on his daily form?  |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 02-09-2015 09:31
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
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Dusen wrote:
FreireCyanide wrote:
hum not really. in PCM2014 it the same effect as in PCM2015 (= 0 effect), that's definitely not something we changed this year (it was maybe removed between 3 & 6 years ago but i don't remember exactly).
What you see in the DB doesn't mean it's in production or not. you can have an obsolet table still in the DB while the code is not there anymore.
+ it was not something stored in the DB anyway (you are probably talking about a row with nationaly but which was not related to this bonus we're talking here)
So a riders prefered weather has no inpact on his daily form?
Nope, he was talking about nationality bonus. Weather, as Freire said in his first post, has a small effect on the daily form, nothing else.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 05:11
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| King Kunta |
Posted on 04-09-2015 14:32
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Junior Rider
Posts: 35
Joined: 18-07-2015
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The daily form seems to be very random, and rather broken.
I tried several stages where i had -3 in form, i then alt+f4 and tried the stage again, and the form was +4 .. I tried this many times, and the form was completely random every time, eventho the weather was the same in many stages :-)
You should rework this system in PCM16. Its very realistic, but you need to add some factors. A mountain rider should have a higher chance for a good daily form on a mountain stage than a sprinter should have, since their training and schedule is made for those mountain stages ..
And its really really annoying, and for me kinda destroying the game, when your riders form are totally mixed up. It acutally happens a lot my GC guy have +5 on sprint stages, and -3 on mountain stages. and a 80+ mountain guy with -3 feels like a 70-75 mountain guy, and you end up loosing a GC because the form feels so random ..
I don't want this feature to get deleted from the game, not at all. I think its very realistic, you can have a good day and a offday, thats how life is. But the system just seems waaaaaaay too random, and i hope someone can clarify and explain the factors of the daily form a little bit better, how much impact does the weather have, what effects the daily form? Can you do anything in the stages to increase the form (like winning a sprint, getting in a breakaway etc)
Sometimes it just feels like you play the lottory, and it can be very very frustrating. Such random factors in a game, can really ruin the game experiance, and i really hope you guys from Cyanide make a more advanced system in PCM16 .. |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 04-09-2015 14:44
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World Champion
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Just to make this clear: "We" do not have anytihng to do with Cyanide, we are just people who play the game just like you 
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| King Kunta |
Posted on 04-09-2015 14:54
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Junior Rider
Posts: 35
Joined: 18-07-2015
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Ollfardh wrote:
Just to make this clear: "We" do not have anytihng to do with Cyanide, we are just people who play the game just like you
Ehm ...
FreireCyanide is from Cyanide and have actually replied on alot of different question on this forum, so he might see my question. He have infact already replied in this thread to a question from another user :-)
Believe or not, but gamedevelepors acutally read forums. |
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| FreireCyanide |
Posted on 15-09-2015 14:04
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Junior Rider
Posts: 32
Joined: 02-02-2008
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King Kunta wrote:
The daily form seems to be very random, and rather broken.
I tried several stages where i had -3 in form, i then alt+f4 and tried the stage again, and the form was +4 .. I tried this many times, and the form was completely random every time, eventho the weather was the same in many stages :-)
You should rework this system in PCM16. Its very realistic, but you need to add some factors. A mountain rider should have a higher chance for a good daily form on a mountain stage than a sprinter should have, since their training and schedule is made for those mountain stages ..
And its really really annoying, and for me kinda destroying the game, when your riders form are totally mixed up. It acutally happens a lot my GC guy have +5 on sprint stages, and -3 on mountain stages. and a 80+ mountain guy with -3 feels like a 70-75 mountain guy, and you end up loosing a GC because the form feels so random ..
I don't want this feature to get deleted from the game, not at all. I think its very realistic, you can have a good day and a offday, thats how life is. But the system just seems waaaaaaay too random, and i hope someone can clarify and explain the factors of the daily form a little bit better, how much impact does the weather have, what effects the daily form? Can you do anything in the stages to increase the form (like winning a sprint, getting in a breakaway etc)
Sometimes it just feels like you play the lottory, and it can be very very frustrating. Such random factors in a game, can really ruin the game experiance, and i really hope you guys from Cyanide make a more advanced system in PCM16 ..
Yes it's true random is probably too important in the equation.
It's not completely random but that is a major part of the daily form (and it was the intention when we designed it). Other factors (in PCM15) are weather & freshness but there are not main parameters, just a slight shift for the random...
Can't agree more on the fact we should change the way it's computed.
However I don't feel confident we should do it like "a sprinter should have more chance to a good day on a flat stage and a climber a good day on a mountain stage", it could be redundant with the characteristics.
First I think it would be interesting that the daily form depend (for stage races) more about the REC carac in 2nd and 3rd week. Could be nice to see GC-suckers like Gallopin, Spilak, Kwiatko & guys like that starting to get more and more bad days after the first 10-12 stages...
Secondly in career the daily form should maybe be linked to the "fatigue" parameter. Going into the Vuelta with a high fatigue (meaning you already had several fitness peaks without enough recovery periods) should decrease a bit your attributes (as it's now in the game) but also bash you on your chances of daily form. So Aru would start the Vuelta with a low fatigue, and have not so much "-5/-4-/-3" days but Quintana after a tough Tour would have lots of chance to get those bad daily form...maybe he could have some chance and not get it on the first mountain stages, but one day or another the bad day would come for him.
And talking about the daily form, would you like the parameter to be known at the start of the stage (rather than discovering it little by little during the stage) ?
Maybe it could be nice if we would see (like in the TT) just at the start the value of the daily form => you could do your team strategy depending on all the values and don't cry on the last climb because you discover that the rider you were working for is on a "-5" day |
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| togo95 |
Posted on 15-09-2015 14:36
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Domestique
Posts: 442
Joined: 06-01-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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FreireCyanide wrote:
Yes it's true random is probably too important in the equation.
It's not completely random but that is a major part of the daily form (and it was the intention when we designed it). Other factors (in PCM15) are weather & freshness but there are not main parameters, just a slight shift for the random...
Can't agree more on the fact we should change the way it's computed.
However I don't feel confident we should do it like "a sprinter should have more chance to a good day on a flat stage and a climber a good day on a mountain stage", it could be redundant with the characteristics.
First I think it would be interesting that the daily form depend (for stage races) more about the REC carac in 2nd and 3rd week. Could be nice to see GC-suckers like Gallopin, Spilak, Kwiatko & guys like that starting to get more and more bad days after the first 10-12 stages...
Secondly in career the daily form should maybe be linked to the "fatigue" parameter. Going into the Vuelta with a high fatigue (meaning you already had several fitness peaks without enough recovery periods) should decrease a bit your attributes (as it's now in the game) but also bash you on your chances of daily form. So Aru would start the Vuelta with a low fatigue, and have not so much "-5/-4-/-3" days but Quintana after a tough Tour would have lots of chance to get those bad daily form...maybe he could have some chance and not get it on the first mountain stages, but one day or another the bad day would come for him.
And talking about the daily form, would you like the parameter to be known at the start of the stage (rather than discovering it little by little during the stage) ?
Maybe it could be nice if we would see (like in the TT) just at the start the value of the daily form => you could do your team strategy depending on all the values and don't cry on the last climb because you discover that the rider you were working for is on a "-5" day
I like that the daily form is mostly random, because most, if not all, other features affecting rider's effort depend on their attributes, which are not hidden so give you a very good idea of what might happen in the race. However, the daily form being truly random represents the unpredictability which is important, because if the game is too predictable, it becomes boring very fast.
That's why I wouldn't like to know the daily form at the start of the stage either. It is good as it is now I think. Of course, if you put rider in a breakaway to learn he has -5, that sucks, but it makes the cases when such riders has +5 that much better. Maybe you could get the first idea by having the arrow right from the start of the stage, since riders sometimes suspect they will have a bad day (due to illness or whatever), but the remaining indicators are uncovered at a good time I believe. |
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| Evilste |
Posted on 15-09-2015 15:36
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Amateur
Posts: 5
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I like that there is a random element to daily form but think that the random element is too dominant and should only account for say +/- 2, for example a formula calculates your day form as +2, then the randomization varies that between 0 and +4.
I also like the daily form being revealed during the stage as you test your legs, but I would like the way it is revealed to be more accurate, I find it very annoying when I have an up arrow that turns into a -2 a few minutes later.
I would also like the daily form to be more linked to overall racing condition so if you start a race undercooked your daily form should be more likely to be poor in the first week and if you have bad recovery you would be more likely to have bad daily form in the final week. This would also mean that if you get your preparation right and hit your fitness peak at just the right time then your climber would have a greater chance of having great daily form just as the race moves into the alps. |
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| togo95 |
Posted on 15-09-2015 16:10
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Domestique
Posts: 442
Joined: 06-01-2011
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But what would be the point of the daily form if it was just to magnify the difference between good form/bad form or good recovery/bad recovery. These factors already influence cyclists performance and if there is need for them to have a higher influence on the performance this can be tweaked within the game. I don't see any reason why these should influence your performance indirectly through daily form when they already do so directly. |
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| FreireCyanide |
Posted on 15-09-2015 16:57
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Junior Rider
Posts: 32
Joined: 02-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Indeed it's in theory better not to multiply the effects of a single parameter (= better to avoid replication) but in certain particular cases it has some interests.
Even if the recovery's characteristic already play a role (in freshness decrease), it could be interesting to get an influence of it in the daily form mechanism:
let's say for instance you could design it this way : during the first stages the REC's characteristic has nearly no influence (or only for very weak values of REC), and the more stages you have in the legs the higher REC you need to avoid bad days.
So you could be good in the first and second week but in the 3rd week it would be hard not to get a real bad day.
If you only have the original effect (from the characteristic), then it's a linear effect with no surprises.
So here with such an effect you could make happens a true bad day for a non GT specialist (or for a rider who accumulated too much race days) and it could be more realistic and fun. |
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| Unclemax |
Posted on 15-09-2015 18:45
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Amateur
Posts: 19
Joined: 06-08-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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King Kunta wrote:
The daily form seems to be very random, and rather broken.
I tried several stages where i had -3 in form, i then alt+f4 and tried the stage again, and the form was +4 .. I tried this many times, and the form was completely random every time, eventho the weather was the same in many stages :-)
You should rework this system in PCM16. Its very realistic, but you need to add some factors. A mountain rider should have a higher chance for a good daily form on a mountain stage than a sprinter should have, since their training and schedule is made for those mountain stages ..
And its really really annoying, and for me kinda destroying the game, when your riders form are totally mixed up. It acutally happens a lot my GC guy have +5 on sprint stages, and -3 on mountain stages. and a 80+ mountain guy with -3 feels like a 70-75 mountain guy, and you end up loosing a GC because the form feels so random ..
I don't want this feature to get deleted from the game, not at all. I think its very realistic, you can have a good day and a offday, thats how life is. But the system just seems waaaaaaay too random, and i hope someone can clarify and explain the factors of the daily form a little bit better, how much impact does the weather have, what effects the daily form? Can you do anything in the stages to increase the form (like winning a sprint, getting in a breakaway etc)
Sometimes it just feels like you play the lottory, and it can be very very frustrating. Such random factors in a game, can really ruin the game experiance, and i really hope you guys from Cyanide make a more advanced system in PCM16 ..
Yes, in career mode, you can go to exploration stages of the 3 GT's.
You'll always have +3 or more. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 15-09-2015 22:20
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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@Freire Cyanide
I also think the random factor of daily form should be kept revealed until about halfway through the race as well, but agree with togo that it's quite bad that before the daily form is revealed you can have an up arrow indicating that the daily form will be good, but then a few minutes later you end up with a - number that indicates your form is bad.
I think the targeted races should have an impact as well in the rider's profile (and allow us to edit it as well) because if a rider's preferred race is the Tour de France or the Liege-Bastogne-Liege there should be more chance that he will be on better form for these races, as he would've trained for these races and this should also work in single race mode.
Pity about nationality bonus as riders do try harder in their own country most of the time. |
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| togo95 |
Posted on 15-09-2015 22:43
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Domestique
Posts: 442
Joined: 06-01-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Pity about nationality bonus as riders do try harder in their own country most of the time.
Maybe it's just me but I have a feeling riders do perform better on their home soil. Could be that there is a slight advantage for home riders, just the column in DB with the nationality bonus is not used for this purpose. I base this only on the results I have seen, so could very well be bs. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 15-09-2015 22:52
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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togo95 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Pity about nationality bonus as riders do try harder in their own country most of the time.
Maybe it's just me but I have a feeling riders do perform better on their home soil. Could be that there is a slight advantage for home riders, just the column in DB with the nationality bonus is not used for this purpose. I base this only on the results I have seen, so could very well be bs.
Sometimes I do notice this as well, but I think it could be random though as a lot of riders that you think should do well in races in their own country, don't do well at all. For example Pierre Rolland seems to race crap in every French race I've seen him in. |
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| Abaddon |
Posted on 16-09-2015 12:50
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Amateur
Posts: 14
Joined: 03-09-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Daily form is definitely good idea, but it could use some tweaking. From my experience it has a bit to much of influence on riders performance and its way to random.
1. You can easily go from -5 to +3 next day, just to have -3 day after again. And +3/4again next day. It doesn't really happen in real life.
2. Extremes, like +/- 4/5 have to much influence on your performance. If you get +5 on MT with the rider who has 77 MO, you can easily beat all opponents (even ones with MO over 80) and gain minutes in GC. Same goes with -5, where you can lose the race just on 1 stage. It would be fine, but only if such occurrence would be rare, like really rare. But now it can happen several times during Grand Tour. It also makes the game easier, as it look like AI cannot handle "bad days" very well. AI rides these stages same as all other and doesn't try to minimize loses. Therefore even on hard level its not that hard to finish GT on the podium with average rider.
3. Baseline should be value of 0 with variation to -/+ 1. And these 3 values should apply for majority of stages. -/+ 2 and higher should only apply if certain circumstances are met (rider's freshness, form, weather, recovery etc would be in play) + a bit of randomness.
4. Also really bad day form could be a sign of illness or some hidden injury (although I'm not sure if that's not already in place).
5. Also crash during the stage should have influence on daily form, If you +5 and crash, you are most likely not +5 anymore as you would feel soreness and pain (but not after every crash of course). |
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