Hello everyone,
Here we will discuss if a new manager game of cycling is possible or not, but at least help me to develop this idea!
To present myself I'm Alex, I'm a rider since 2003 (more or less) and I was pretty happy when I first see Cycling Manager! I played all PCM since the beginning. I played some for a year, and some for 1 month, and since PCM 11 it is mostly only one month cause it seems that since the game appears on console, the PC side is slowly dying. I haven't played PCM 15 any seconds but I have heard enough to know that the game isn't finish at all, and please, we are not talking here to know wheter it's good or not but if we need a new game now!
Also, I don't think a lot of people know me here but i've made some Db's (the 99 and 2003 one for example) I did an amateur Db for France on PCM 10)
First of all i'm sorry if I've made some mistakes as I'm french.
My ideas are still fresh and I haven't any knowledge as a programmer but I know enough about cycling and cycling game so here we go for my first thoughts and it needs you to grow as a real project.
So the goal of this topic is to know if a kickstarter or something like this could be a good thing? I mean, does some of you are willing to pay to have the game later? For example the game would be 30 or 40€ like a real game (cause it would be) and for those who helped to make the game it would be given or something like this? (i mean: graphists, stage makers etc, database etc) cause yes I think it should be a game developped by our community.
The idea of the kickstarter is to pay the developers of the game and make it possible.
This game won't be PCM but an all new cycling game with a more developed manager side and I think the community here should be hear cause everything is possible in a game.
On the other side, their would be no licence (to have the lower cost as possible, at least for the first game).
Finally, the goal (for me) would be to release the game in march, just before Paris-Nice for exemple because yes FIFA or NHL does not come at the half of the season!
I have few ideas here that will also depend of the community and their wishes
- The first one is the community for me it's the core the game and I want every voice to be hear, I can't promise everything will be in the game, but at least I want to hear you (I say I cause i'm alone for the moment but I hope you will be with me soon)
- It will be more a manager game than a 3D game ala FManager.
- Different kind of strategies!! Froome will always make his teamates ride, Contador less (it's just an exemple), teams would have different kind of development some with neo pro, other less.
- A lot of things need to be tweaked like in FIFA or NHL, I'd like to choose the number of falls, the number of attack which can go till the end, choosing if stats has to be hide or not.
- Random stats for riders (between each year, between month and during a Grand Tour this will evolve all the time, more for certain riders, less for others and an all new development of their stats with the training (still thinking about it and don't want to say too much) I think the scale would be 1-99 as an amateur side needs to come in the game
- Training has a huge part of the game (still need development)
- Young riders won't do Tour de France for example (like PCM 06 or 07)
- Like the Football Manager, we will need scouts cause I would like to have the amateur side of the game (new stages, new riders, maybe development team etc)
- For the stage editor I have a lot of ideas to facilitate the game but I don't want Cyanide to take my ideas
So people, tell me here if you are willing to help and maybe how much would you help. Tell me everything you think about a new game, and is it possible? If you are a game programmer or know one also tell me!
Edited by alex-sonic on 19-08-2015 15:52
Developing a game without a publisher (like Focus for PCM) won't be achievable, since you won't have the resources to release the game. Also the costs of developing the game would be very high. I don't exactly know how high, but too high to just release the game at this community. Remember you'll have to pay experienced game developers to create the engine, you need to buy licenses from the UCI and all teams to use their names/graphics in the game and you need to buy resources (DVDs, Steam subscription, etc). I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things here, but you get the point.
Also, it will take a lot of time (approx. 9-12 months) to create a game similar to PCM, which has been evolving and improving for years now.
I've been thinking about developing something similar, but there were just too many risks to be able to pull this off, without me going bankrupt in the process.
But enough with the negative (or just realistic) stuff. If you can get a publisher, the money needed and a few experienced game developers, I'd be glad to help out with graphics, DB work and ideas.
Thanks for your feedbacks the game does not need to only reach the community, but I think if the game should be release, the community is the better way to promote the game itself.
And also this is why I'm talking about it now because the game could be release in march 2016, I know it's a long long time, but it's enough to find what we need!
As for the license, as I said earlier, their won't be any of them in the core game and we will have la Db de l'inconnu for exemple but then yes I know we'll have to pay for licenses!
As I said yes it's only an idea, and I know a game cost a lot unfortunately :/
And also this is why I'm talking about it now because the game could be release in march 2016, I know it's a long long time, but it's enough to find what we need!
What? No. That's not a long time. Not unless you already have a sim-engine for results going, as well as a basic system for actually being a manager.
And also this is why I'm talking about it now because the game could be release in march 2016, I know it's a long long time, but it's enough to find what we need!
What? No. That's not a long time. Not unless you already have a sim-engine for results going, as well as a basic system for actually being a manager.
I have none of these, and unfortunately for people it is long to wait till then
We had a promising attempt a while back, but they also had to realise that it wasn't gonna work out. It's just to much for a community.
We need a developer squad to come in and challenge Cyanide the cycling scene and. No one have the guts or will, to make a move though
Maybe a letter to Sega with a plea, could end up with a different cycling game. They have been very succesful with FM
EDIT: Wish you the best of luck OP
If you need advice for alle the things that could or should be different, try and have a look in the "wishlist" here on the site. It's full of great ideas Edited by Dusen on 19-08-2015 15:59
Well, having read a fair amount of gaming post mortems on Gama Sutra, I think I can offer a few bits of advice of developing a game:
- Design the game before you make the game.
- Don't underestimate the time it takes to actually make a game.
- Don't sell the game, for as much money as the established competitor.
Dusen wrote:
We had a promising attempt a while back, but they also had to realise that it wasn't gonna work out. It's just to much for a community.
We need a developer squad to come in and challenge Cyanide the cycling scene and. No one have the guts or will, to make a move though
Maybe a letter to Sega with a plea, could end up with a different cycling game. They have been very succesful with FM
EDIT: Wish you the best of luck OP
If you need advice for alle the things that could or should be different, try and have a look in the "wishlist" here on the site. It's full of great ideas
Thanks for your feedbacks!!
Yes but they did it on their past time I think, I'd like a full time team on it in fact.
And yes the problem is Cyanide knows they won't have any studio who can put them down so they play on what they already did and don't do better game, for exemple a lot of people say be a pro is a huge thing, but they only remove 8 riders to let you play with one rider, but people does not complain of it... So Cyanide will never evolve in a good way!
Not sure how I could contact SEGA but yes why not
Hello everyone,
Here we will discuss if a new manager game of cycling is possible or not, but at least help me to develop this idea!
Yes, it is possible and I will be curious about it.
My ideas are still fresh and I haven't any knowledge as a programmer but I know enough about cycling and cycling game so here we go for my first thoughts and it needs you to grow as a real project.
First big problem, you know nothing of programming a video game.
So the goal of this topic is to know if a kickstarter or something like this could be a good thing? I mean, does some of you are willing to pay to have the game later? For example the game would be 30 or 40€ like a real game (cause it would be) and for those who helped to make the game it would be given or something like this? (i mean: graphists, stage makers etc, database etc) cause yes I think it should be a game developped by our community.
The idea of the kickstarter is to pay the developers of the game and make it possible.
That's not how things work. Personally I will not pay if you just say you are going to use the money to hire programmers to create a video game that you just have an idea about it. 40€ for a new game when I can get PCM at the same price? As much bad PCM can be it is already a mature game with many years on the market. Your game would most likely be worse than PCM at least in some aspects and will also be unknown to many players and they will think if it is a good idea to buy your game instead of PCM. However, if the game cost a lower price maybe people think twice.
This game won't be PCM but an all new cycling game with a more developed manager side and I think the community here should be hear cause everything is possible in a game.
On the other side, their would be no licence (to have the lower cost as possible, at least for the first game).
Finally, the goal (for me) would be to release the game in march, just before Paris-Nice for exemple because yes FIFA or NHL does not come at the half of the season!
The idea of being more focused on management is very good, but some months ago there was another project with the same idea: create a better career mode with more focus on management and ended up to focus more on 3D Mode and we all saw how it ended. If you really want a career mode focused on management then just focus on it and don't care much about 3D Mode or Online Mode or Be a Pro and so on until you really have what you want.
When I read ideas like this I think what people want is a PCM videogame with just a better career mode but I never read comments about a different approach to the world of cycling with maybe a more arcade, lighter and especially more fun to play videogame with a career mode at the same time more complete than the PCM career mode and not so repetitive. Basically something different from PCM series and not just a copy of it.
Personaly I think May is a great month for release a cycling game because players start watching cycling in February/March, and you show the firsts informations about the game, then in April with classic races you show gameplay videos and in May when Giro is on the road you BUM! You lauch the game and in June you have time to correct the bugs and when PCM come out you already have a more complete game (and at a lower price).
So people, tell me here if you are willing to help and maybe how much would you help. Tell me everything you think about a new game, and is it possible? If you are a game programmer or know one also tell me!
Really, the idea of a new cycling game is good. The idea of a new cycling game more focused on the career mode is great. But is just that. An idea. Sorry, but if you were rich or something Id some hope because it will be very complicated to you to ever manage to put together a team of developers to make reality your idea. But as I said at the beginning of this post I will be curious if this happens.
And yes the problem is Cyanide knows they won't have any studio who can put them down so they play on what they already did and don't do better game, for exemple a lot of people say be a pro is a huge thing, but they only remove 8 riders to let you play with one rider, but people does not complain of it... So Cyanide will never evolve in a good way!
Just go read some comments about pro mode and you will see why Cyanide don't care much about their game, which is a consequence of what you said in the first part of the sentence.
Like most people here said, its pretty much impossible to make a game with just having an idea without any knowledge.
You can try, but since you don't seem to have...
a) a proper plan
b) money
c) a great game developing background
...no studio will take you serious. They want to have a "fail-safe" plan, or money, or both.
Also from the actual status, if you should find some developers quickly, I think the release date shouldn't be 2015, nor 2016. mostly like mid-2017. Creating an engine, creating the foundation of the game will take months for a big development studio.
The guys, who already tried to create a PCM-competitor, already had an engine and some parts of the foundation, but they still were not able to pull it off.
And no, I don't want to sit here and tell you to do nothing. If you really want to try it, then try it. You can't release a game, when you don't try it, but please keep in mind, that 99% of the community will only help/support this project, if there is a clear plan, a solid foundation and a good concept. Also, thinking about the release date, before having even started yet doesn't look serious to me, quite frankly.
Now about your "ideas".
Your game would solely focus on the management part, right? Then why should all the people buy it, who love spending time in the 3D mode? For example, I wouldn't like it, when I won the german NC, but couldn't see my jersey I just earned in the 3D mode.
Overall, if you CAN put out a proper plan, have much money or a developing team at hand, I could help you with the german translation, if needed.
Edited by Paul23 on 20-08-2015 05:01
@zmiguel91
I know it's a big step when you know nothing about video game programming, this is why I'm sharing my ideas here and I don't keep it for myself! I think i am not the only one who have the idea to develop a new PCM game but not anyone has the courage to come in. And when I see most of the answers, I understand why :/ but I hope that one day, some people will raise and help.
For the price, yes this was just my first idea, and the thing is to make at least the game equal or even better than PCM for the first release otherwise it's a waste of time, but yes I understand your point of view
For the other part of your writing, you sum up what the problem is so yes it will be complicated, and I know that a new PCM game is almost impossible in the end cause even with great ideas, it costs too much and it's pretty risky!
But yes maybe the only thing is winning the lotery!
Paul23 wrote:
Like most people here said, its pretty much impossible to make a game with just having an idea without any knowledge.
You can try, but since you don't seem to have...
a) a proper plan
b) money
c) a great game developing background
...no studio will take you serious. They want to have a "fail-safe" plan, or money, or both.
Also from the actual status, if you should find some developers quickly, I think the release date shouldn't be 2015, nor 2016. mostly like mid-2017. Creating an engine, creating the foundation of the game will take months for a big development studio.
The guys, who already tried to create a PCM-competitor, already had an engine and some parts of the foundation, but they still were not able to pull it off.
And no, I don't want to sit here and tell you to do nothing. If you really want to try it, then try it. You can't release a game, when you don't try it, but please keep in mind, that 99% of the community will only help/support this project, if there is a clear plan, a solid foundation and a good concept. Also, thinking about the release date, before having even started yet doesn't look serious to me, quite frankly.
Now about your "ideas".
Your game would solely focus on the management part, right? Then why should all the people buy it, who love spending time in the 3D mode? For example, I wouldn't like it, when I won the german NC, but couldn't see my jersey I just earned in the 3D mode.
Overall, if you CAN put out a proper plan, have much money or a developing team at hand, I could help you with the german translation, if needed.
Thanks for feedback.
Yes for the release date, it's only a project so i'm surely pretty optimistic in the end, but that's not the problem I think, but yes, maybe it will only be 2017, maybe 2016, maybe never, this topic is just to throw some ideas and seeing if some people would be enough motivated to make it happen.
And no there will be a 3D game part too, I mean, the carreer mode for me on PCM is a joke, you can't do nothing, so yes there will be a 3D part too, I don't want to make a FM game! But for exemple Be a pro is for me a waste of time and does not show what cycling really is!
alex-sonic wrote:
the thing is to make at least the game equal or even better than PCM for the first release otherwise it's a waste of time
Yes, but that won't happen with the first release. Cyanide have a 15 year headstart
I would even say, when you can put out a game, thats running well without major bugs you can consider the mission successful. Then you can build from that year after year.
Paul23 wrote:
Like most people here said, its pretty much impossible to make a game with just having an idea without any knowledge.
You can try, but since you don't seem to have...
a) a proper plan
b) money
c) a great game developing background
...no studio will take you serious. They want to have a "fail-safe" plan, or money, or both.
Also from the actual status, if you should find some developers quickly, I think the release date shouldn't be 2015, nor 2016. mostly like mid-2017. Creating an engine, creating the foundation of the game will take months for a big development studio.
The guys, who already tried to create a PCM-competitor, already had an engine and some parts of the foundation, but they still were not able to pull it off.
And no, I don't want to sit here and tell you to do nothing. If you really want to try it, then try it. You can't release a game, when you don't try it, but please keep in mind, that 99% of the community will only help/support this project, if there is a clear plan, a solid foundation and a good concept. Also, thinking about the release date, before having even started yet doesn't look serious to me, quite frankly.
Now about your "ideas".
Your game would solely focus on the management part, right? Then why should all the people buy it, who love spending time in the 3D mode? For example, I wouldn't like it, when I won the german NC, but couldn't see my jersey I just earned in the 3D mode.
Overall, if you CAN put out a proper plan, have much money or a developing team at hand, I could help you with the german translation, if needed.
Thanks for feedback.
Yes for the release date, it's only a project so i'm surely pretty optimistic in the end, but that's not the problem I think, but yes, maybe it will only be 2017, maybe 2016, maybe never, this topic is just to throw some ideas and seeing if some people would be enough motivated to make it happen.
And no there will be a 3D game part too, I mean, the carreer mode for me on PCM is a joke, you can't do nothing, so yes there will be a 3D part too, I don't want to make a FM game! But for exemple Be a pro is for me a waste of time and does not show what cycling really is!
Be A Pro needs to be sorted out, thats right, or at least needs to be made way, way better(like in the TdF version for the consoles).
coolrex wrote:
Just don't pay the UCI make a fake database with the fake sponsors and stuff, because we will make the database ourself already so that will cost less money , weird that cyanide hasn't done this yet.
Fun fact: Most PCM-players don't visit the forums or download databases.
If you don't have those licenses, you aren't going to attract those people.
This sort of project was also started on some of the FIFA Forums, they wanted to create a full football game with only womens, but they failed due to some jerks who were joking about it and the fact of that it was taking too long. and that EA Games also had chosen to counter it with 10 national womens teams in fifa 16
the game does not need to only reach the community, but I think if the game should be release, the community is the better way to promote the game itself.
, weird that cyanide hasn't done this yet.
