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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 09-08-2015 12:24
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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wouty006 wrote:
I always wondered: why does cancelarra always have such a great descent stat? I've never seen him do a crazy descent like sagan/nibali
He does them from mostly hills rather than mountains. |
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| Omloop |
Posted on 09-08-2015 12:41
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Domestique
Posts: 433
Joined: 08-01-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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wouty006 wrote:
I always wondered: why does cancelarra always have such a great descent stat? I've never seen him do a crazy descent like sagan/nibali
Well thats because Cancellara ain't often in the situasjon where he needs a fast decent. If you want to know why he has such a good DH stat you should search it up on YouTube. |
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| geisterhome |
Posted on 09-08-2015 21:18
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Stagiare
Posts: 188
Joined: 24-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Omloop wrote:
wouty006 wrote:
I always wondered: why does cancelarra always have such a great descent stat? I've never seen him do a crazy descent like sagan/nibali
Well thats because Cancellara ain't often in the situasjon where he needs a fast decent. If you want to know why he has such a good DH stat you should search it up on YouTube.
He is great descender!
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| deek12345 |
Posted on 09-08-2015 21:21
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2761
Joined: 13-06-2009
PCM$: 360.00
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check out 09 tour for cances decending skill |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 10-08-2015 07:55
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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lakebeach wrote:
Cav is far, far from who he once was, and only one sprint point lower than Kittel and the same acceleration is too high. He has been beaten by riders like Wouter Wippert, Elia Viviani, Fabian Cancellara and Fernando Gaviria  in sprint this year, not to mention Peter Sagan. Furthermore, Cavendish has never won a sprint stage that Kittel has contested. Cavendish's stats are too high compared Kittel imo.
This, Cavendish is the most overrated rider in the database.
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| Ivan787 |
Posted on 10-08-2015 08:50
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Amateur
Posts: 8
Joined: 15-07-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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I confess that I don't understand the approach here.
In my opinion it seems that Tdf is the only race in a year and all consideration are made without considering fitness and player form.
I think that stats should consider the entire year and probably also the 1-2 past years because the condition can affect very much a performance.
During Vuelta 2014 Aru wins two stage on mountain ahead Froome and Contador, so Aru should have better MO than Froome? Obviously not. In San Luis Quintana perform worst than Diaz....
And finally we don't make the mistake of not considering backup stat like recovery (a rider with low REC probably never wins a GT, also if he has slighly better MO ant TT), and resistance for cobble or attack. Good difference in resistance could lead to high difference in performance. |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 10-08-2015 18:11
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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There's just no way that froome is only 77rec when contador got 80rec even thibault Pinot got higher rec what a joke  |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 21:46
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| IP: None |
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| MartijnVDD |
Posted on 10-08-2015 18:18
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 801
Joined: 26-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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fidjim2013 wrote:
There's just no way that froome is only 77rec when contador got 80rec even thibault Pinot got higher rec what a joke
I don't know man. Froome only gained time in the first two weeks and faded in the last while Pinot won the last stage (Champs-Élysées not included) after having been in the early break in numerous stages.
I myself find it hard to judge Contador just by the most recent TdF. He did win a very tough Giro. |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 10-08-2015 18:23
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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MartijnVDD wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
There's just no way that froome is only 77rec when contador got 80rec even thibault Pinot got higher rec what a joke
I don't know man. Froome only gained time in the first two weeks and faded in the last while Pinot won the last stage (Champs-Élysées not included) after having been in the early break in numerous stages.
I myself find it hard to judge Contador just by the most recent TdF. He did win a very tough Giro.
It doesn't make sense because Bardet was also string during the 3rd week and his rec is lower than Pinot. Contador imo doesn't deserve 80 the guy is just getting older and long are gone the days when he was one of the best for rec |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 10-08-2015 18:36
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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fidjim2013 wrote:
There's just no way that froome is only 77rec when contador got 80rec even thibault Pinot got higher rec what a joke
The REC stat for Froome is right and it's probably his achilles heel. Froome wins these races in the second week where he crushes his opponents and then holds on, its well known that he fades in the final week but it usually doesn't matter as he has victory already assured.
Contador on the other hand is GT animal and can ride all three weeks the same level more or less. In this Giro he worked his team too hard early on, then got injured and then faced an onslaught from Astana, if all this hadn't happened I'm certain he would've ridden as well in the final week.
Personally if Contador has 80 REC and Froome 77 REC it looks about right to me.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 10-08-2015 22:39
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| MartijnVDD |
Posted on 10-08-2015 19:25
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 801
Joined: 26-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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fidjim2013 wrote:
MartijnVDD wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
There's just no way that froome is only 77rec when contador got 80rec even thibault Pinot got higher rec what a joke
I don't know man. Froome only gained time in the first two weeks and faded in the last while Pinot won the last stage (Champs-Élysées not included) after having been in the early break in numerous stages.
I myself find it hard to judge Contador just by the most recent TdF. He did win a very tough Giro.
It doesn't make sense because Bardet was also string during the 3rd week and his rec is lower than Pinot. Contador imo doesn't deserve 80 the guy is just getting older and long are gone the days when he was one of the best for rec
Pinot overtook Bardet in the third week of the TdF 2014. |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 10-08-2015 22:19
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
There's just no way that froome is only 77rec when contador got 80rec even thibault Pinot got higher rec what a joke
The REC stat for Froome is right and it's probably his Achilles heel. Froome wins these races in the second week where he crushes his opponents and then holds on, its well known that he fades in the final week but it usually doesn't matter as he has victory already assured.
Contador on the other hand is GT animal and can ride all three weeks the same level more or less. In this Giro he worked his team too hard early on, then got injured and then faced an onslaught from Astana, if all this hadn't happened I'm certain he would've ridden as well in the final week.
Personally if Contador has 80 REC and Froome 77 REC it looks about right to me.
Rec isn't about the grand tours only what about the week long stages ? |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 10-08-2015 22:44
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Rec isn't about the grand tours only what about the week long stages ?
Good question, but as far as I'm aware it's only really for the grand tours, because riders like Spilak and Porte with very low REC often win week long tours. Because most riders can recover reasonably well over 7-9 day period.
It's also like the STA stat which I think only really kicks in after 230km, making the long classics suitable for the really strong riders. |
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| Morganho |
Posted on 10-08-2015 23:36
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Junior Rider
Posts: 25
Joined: 05-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Some thoughts, interested in seeing everyone's opinion on these:
Dan Martin is overrated in MO. I think 76 would be perfect.
Boaro desperately needs a MO upgrade,
Nocentini doesn't deserve 77 HI anymore.
Miguel Angel Lopez should get a small bump
Nelson Oliveira deserves a HI upgrade after a great CSS.
I think Poels' REC needs a bump and Konig's MO and REC should be lowered a bit.
I don't think Michael Rogers should be 77 MO, 76 probably. |
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 11-08-2015 00:01
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World Champion
Posts: 11392
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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For young riders, at this stage of the season shouldn't it be potential and not stats up/downgrade if anything? Because for example the above Mig Lopez suggestion, he progresses to this level anyway... just a thought 
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
2x  x2
2x  x2 |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 11-08-2015 04:04
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Did anyone got a crash while playing pro cyclist mode season 2 where it says simulating Pico Veleta - Alhambra ? |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 11-08-2015 05:55
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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Morganho wrote:
Dan Martin is overrated in MO. I think 76 would be perfect.
Okay, try getting 7th in the Vuelta behind only Contador, Froome, Valverde, Rodriguez, Aru and Sanchez with 76 mtn.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 11-08-2015 07:15
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7694
Joined: 18-08-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
It's also like the STA stat which I think only really kicks in after 230km, making the long classics suitable for the really strong riders.
STA is not about long classics. It's a general stat. Low STA-riders can survive 230+ kilometers, if the race is run slowly. But if you got a 120 kilometer sprint, everyone will need STA if they want to win.
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 11-08-2015 07:44
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Morganho wrote:
Some thoughts, interested in seeing everyone's opinion on these:
Dan Martin is overrated in MO. I think 76 would be perfect.
Boaro desperately needs a MO upgrade,
Nocentini doesn't deserve 77 HI anymore.
Miguel Angel Lopez should get a small bump
Nelson Oliveira deserves a HI upgrade after a great CSS.
I think Poels' REC needs a bump and Konig's MO and REC should be lowered a bit.
I don't think Michael Rogers should be 77 MO, 76 probably.
In my opinion Dan Martin with 77 its ok
Michael Rogers 76 woud be perfect
Nocentini 76 in Hills better |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 11-08-2015 08:27
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
lakebeach wrote:
Cav is far, far from who he once was, and only one sprint point lower than Kittel and the same acceleration is too high. He has been beaten by riders like Wouter Wippert, Elia Viviani, Fabian Cancellara and Fernando Gaviria in sprint this year, not to mention Peter Sagan. Furthermore, Cavendish has never won a sprint stage that Kittel has contested. Cavendish's stats are too high compared Kittel imo.
This, Cavendish is the most overrated rider in the database. True  |
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