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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| Anderis |
Posted on 08-08-2015 18:19
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Domestique
Posts: 471
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What about Bialoblocki's TT?  |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 08-08-2015 18:23
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Protected Rider
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Cavs still clearly an 82 sprinter, so I don't see the reason for debating him. I don't think his REC is what it was and deserves a downgrade but that's about it. No Greipel is better  |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 08-08-2015 18:39
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
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Arberg27 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Cavs still clearly an 82 sprinter, so I don't see the reason for debating him. I don't think his REC is what it was and deserves a downgrade but that's about it. No Greipel is better
In a straight sprint with good conditions and their leadout trains going as they should Cavendish is better as his superior ACC would show. If the trains are not as good and weather conditions not so great then I'd go for Greipel as he's a hard man in these situations but both are still 82 SP. |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 08-08-2015 18:56
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Cavs still clearly an 82 sprinter, so I don't see the reason for debating him. I don't think his REC is what it was and deserves a downgrade but that's about it. No Greipel is better
In a straight sprint with good conditions and their leadout trains going as they should Cavendish is better as his superior ACC would show. If the trains are not as good and weather conditions not so great then I'd go for Greipel as he's a hard man in these situations but both are still 82 SP.
Exactly, Cavs train was also pretty weakened, with Tonys abandon.
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| lakebeach |
Posted on 08-08-2015 19:19
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Protected Rider
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Paul23 wrote:
Yes, I mean those wins. Kittel was there, Cav was there. Both took part in the race.
Yeah, you are right about that. Should have written 'sprint' instead of 'sprint stage' in the first post. 
Anyways, if you compare the two riders at cqranking.com and look at the stages Cav won, you will notice that the highest position Kittel finished in one of those stages is 17th (first stage of 2014 Tirreno Adriatico). That means Cav hasn't won a sprint in which Kittel was in serious contention.
"It's very hard to work with other guys because nobody wants to work with me so it's better to drop everybody." - Peter Sagan |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 21:30
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 08-08-2015 19:20
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Greipel won the Champs-Elysées without a train from a very bad position. Cavendish get not even in the top 5
+ 3 stage wins more. No way Cavendish deserves 82.
Edited by Arberg27 on 08-08-2015 19:26
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 08-08-2015 19:22
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
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Well I'd never heard of him before but his TT is only 67. so even with a big update it's difficult to judge. Clearly he is on form and saw that he won the Polish NC TT and if the nationality bonus is added to his Tour of Poland stage TT I guess he should be mid 70s TT. |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 08-08-2015 19:23
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
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Arberg27 wrote:
Greipel won the Champs-Elysées without a train from a very bad position. Cavendish get not even in the top 5
So Greipel found the better wheel. And? Cav also worked his ass off for Tony in the first week.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 08-08-2015 19:24
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Greipel won the Champs-Elysées without a train from a very bad position. Cavendish get not even in the top 5 + 3 stage wins more. No way Cavendish deserves 82.
After 20 days of racing that also has a lot to do with the REC stat, I've said that Greipel is too low already and Cavendish too high.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 08-08-2015 20:27
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 08-08-2015 19:26
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Team Leader
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Paul23 wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Greipel won the Champs-Elysées without a train from a very bad position. Cavendish get not even in the top 5
So Greipel found the better wheel. And? Cav also worked his ass off for Tony in the first week.
Yeah all the hours he spend at the front of the pack...
There's a clear downwards trend in Cavendishs sprint. It's not only this Tour but it's 3 years.
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 08-08-2015 19:27
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Greipel won the Champs-Elysées without a train from a very bad position. Cavendish get not even in the top 5 + 3 stage wins more. No way Cavendish deserves 82.
After 20 gays of racing that also has a lot to do with the REC stat, I've said that Greipel is too low already and Cavendish too high.
Interesting typo.
Anyway anyone has an idea what to give Bialoblocki?
I have no idea at this point
Considering he's a mediocre TTist basically in CT(think he's on 68?) but then there's this
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
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| Lamba |
Posted on 08-08-2015 19:36
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Stagiare
Posts: 150
Joined: 15-07-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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There's an editor anyway, you can higher up Sagan like I'm highering up Kelderman in my own game 
Why on earth would you do that?
Kelderman is already a gamewrecker...
In my v0.8 be a pro as stage rider with 81 mountain and hill with 68 acc and 76 RES and REC (only 70/71 STA), Kelderman has 85 mountain and everyone else 82 or worse. I think Quintana might have 84, but he's not at all as dominating as Kelderman in every fhkin race that contains a climb of 3 cm or more.
Recently, it's been feeling like my rider was on flat tires while the rest just smashed everything on hills. There's no way to compete with the acceleration and physicals, not to mention fighter stat. :S
Also, how do you edit the progressionline (as the patch notes says you've done) and can you maybe tell a bit about what exactly have changed?
My thoughts; When I make a type of rider, it's because I will be playing that type. So naturally, I'm not too unhappy when their key attributes improve (like TT, Mountain and REC on a stage rider), but when training a thing, obviously those are important to me too. So as a stage rider training puncher (for example) I'd really LOVE to exclude stats like cobbles (and sprinter, but I think there's one little green arrow there in training) as they mean nothing to me. Having flat increase is alright, mountain due to rider type, hill due to training, TTR and PRL due to type, ACC due to training, STA+++, RES++ and REC+++ due to training and type.
And then there's the baroudeur stat. I simulated a stage rider for two full seasons and it got me about the same amount of fighter "randomly" as when I played the game and attacked to earn it...
For the sake of testing, I've also simulated 2 seasons worth of races on a Baroudeur training climber. He pretty much never learned to climb (wanted to make a better version of Thomas Voeckler), even though he was level 15-16 or so at the start of season 3.
In short; I'd really like if it was possible to influence more what you wanted to focus on, on your rider. Also if it's possible to influence what stats you do (not) want to increase in primarily. I'm alright with some kind of random, but in my two most recent test start the first level up as stage rider training puncher gave +3 mountain, +2 hill, +1 ACC, +1 DHI, +2 STA, +1 RES, +2 REC while another 100% similar rider, result in first race and stats gave a more mixed +1/+2 across the board.
Edit: Sorry if this seems like some sort of a rant, but I'm primarily just annoyed about how random my own rider seems to be when some AI riders always seem to be the same, extremely dominant selves. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 08-08-2015 20:27
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Jesleyh wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Greipel won the Champs-Elysées without a train from a very bad position. Cavendish get not even in the top 5 + 3 stage wins more. No way Cavendish deserves 82.
After 20 gays of racing that also has a lot to do with the REC stat, I've said that Greipel is too low already and Cavendish too high.
Interesting typo.
Anyway anyone has an idea what to give Bialoblocki?
I have no idea at this point
Considering he's a mediocre TTist basically in CT(think he's on 68?) but then there's this
Yes it was a fun typo. |
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 08-08-2015 20:48
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World Champion
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Lamba wrote:
There's an editor anyway, you can higher up Sagan like I'm highering up Kelderman in my own game
Why on earth would you do that?
Jes is huge-mega-ultra-super-big-obsessive-slightly-creepy Wilco fan with stalker-like tendencies, to put it mildly.
On this guy's point though, Quintana never wins another GT ever in be a pro. I can do it 1st season when I control him, but yeah. This was v08 mind, haven't finished installing v1 yet
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| Lamba |
Posted on 08-08-2015 20:57
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Stagiare
Posts: 150
Joined: 15-07-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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jandal7 wrote:
Lamba wrote:
There's an editor anyway, you can higher up Sagan like I'm highering up Kelderman in my own game
Why on earth would you do that?
Jes is huge-mega-ultra-super-big-obsessive-slightly-creepy Wilco fan with stalker-like tendencies, to put it mildly.
On this guy's point though, Quintana never wins another GT ever in be a pro. I can do it 1st season when I control him, but yeah. This was v08 mind, haven't finished installing v1 yet
I get error on error on error when trying to download (and/or install) the new update. I've already downloaded the 1.1 fix, but I'm dreading when the 1.0 works and then the 1.1 will fhk up everything...
Oh well.
Regarding stats; In 0,5/0,8 (not sure really) it seemed like TTR was more or less a useless stat as you could often win more on the mountains, even if you had 20 in TTR and only mountain as useful stat. So win the game, play as a climber, ye? >_< |
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| totto |
Posted on 08-08-2015 21:20
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Junior Rider
Posts: 26
Joined: 18-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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He's currently at 67 in the DB. He probably needs a huge upgrade yes! |
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| Jones27 |
Posted on 08-08-2015 21:32
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Stagiare
Posts: 200
Joined: 02-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I´ve been thinking about one generally with the stats. In my carrer in 2015 there was 42 riders with 78 average or more, in 2018 there was 57. in 2015 there was 13 u23 riders with 75 average or more but in 2018 there was 63 Would it be an idear to chance the start stats, so they are matching the future a little more, and simply increase stats generally?
And in my carrer Cavendish, Nibali and Fuglsang hasn´t lost any stats even though they are 33. |
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| totto |
Posted on 08-08-2015 22:49
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Junior Rider
Posts: 26
Joined: 18-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Anyway anyone has an idea what to give Bialoblocki?
I have no idea at this point
Considering he's a mediocre TTist basically in CT(think he's on 68?) but then there's this
No idea what to give him, but obviously more than current 67... |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 08-08-2015 22:55
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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totto wrote:
Anyway anyone has an idea what to give Bialoblocki?
I have no idea at this point
Considering he's a mediocre TTist basically in CT(think he's on 68?) but then there's this He is also the polish TT champion I heard.
No idea what to give him, but obviously more than current 67...
75-76 and a similar prologue possibly. |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 08-08-2015 23:05
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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@Lamba
Oh shit. Sorry for having you to go through all that. It was an obvious joke and pointing out my fanboyness(Both Avin and I are known as big fanboys on the forum so it was meant as a joke).
Kelderman got a downgrade to 77MO in the latest DB, by the way. Yes, done by me.
(Doesn't mean it wouldn't be ok to give him an upgrade in the .cdb I personally play with ofc )
In my v0.8 be a pro as stage rider with 81 mountain and hill with 68 acc and 76 RES and REC (only 70/71 STA), Kelderman has 85 mountain and everyone else 82 or worse. I think Quintana might have 84, but he's not at all as dominating as Kelderman in every fhkin race that contains a climb of 3 cm or more.
Just going to clear up a bit here. Stat progression get (sort of) randomized by Cyanide. We can only influence which riders have the most chance on developing to good stats. Kelderman has a decent chance but not really more than other similar riders(similar age and quality).
@totto
He is, but that is not an impressive feat if you ask me. Sure he beat some decent names(No Kwiat though ofc) but like I said(about Würtz) form and motivation are very important in NC ITTs so not something I would draw many conclusions out.
Don't expect a 76TT-ish for Biablocki though. The lack of other results(making this seem like an one-off ish TT) and the fact that he's rumoured to been helped a lot(mainly drafting-related) won't help his stats well. Just like Würtz, the fact that he simply does not do that well in his Continental level ITTs means we can't get to high on him because he'd dominate the CT calendar which would simply be very unrealistic.
I´ve been thinking about one generally with the stats. In my carrer in 2015 there was 42 riders with 78 average or more, in 2018 there was 57. in 2015 there was 13 u23 riders with 75 average or more but in 2018 there was 63Sad Would it be an idear to chance the start stats, so they are matching the future a little more, and simply increase stats generally?
And in my carrer Cavendish, Nibali and Fuglsang hasn´t lost any stats even though they are 33.
Is this with the V1.0? The V1.0(and after) includes Kentaurus' XML files, basically making the development better.
However, Cyanide is still the ones that made the system and we can't change everything, most of it is hardcoded. However I'm pretty sure Kent's XML files made this aspect of the game a lot better.
And actually what you described is not terrible, looking at the numbers. I think Cyanide did a worse job with their XMLs, to be fair.
@Tafiolmo
WHAT?
I regard you a good statmaker but you simply cannot do that
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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