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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 23:49
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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Stats aren't about who's working the hardest.
Case in point Thibault Pinot, who I'm sure has worked on his descending, but does not deserve his 70 DH stat what so ever. He should be down to Mid 60s max.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Naxela |
Posted on 26-07-2015 00:01
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Stagiare
Posts: 169
Joined: 25-02-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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fidjim2013 wrote:
Naxela wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
Smal wrote:
Don't think Froome deserves such a high TT/Prologue stat. Hasn't had such good results in that discipline for a while.
He didn't had to produce good results because he trained more this year in the mountain than the TT because the tour was mostly mountainous, shortest TT in history of tour
Him training less TT does not really help him keeping his TT stat. He have not been one of the best TT/Prologue riders for two years and therefor deserve a small downgrade. Of course he have to produce good results too keep his stat, does Betancur deserve a 80 Hil stat because he didn't train as much climbs the last two years?
Betancur isn't a hard worker that's why he doesn't deserve 80 hill but when you look at froome is working much harder and is about to be crowned the new tour de france winner
So because Froome won the Tour he deserve to keep his TT stat even though he haven't proven anything? Like you said yourself the amount of TT kilometres is a record low in the Tour so that argument makes literally no sense at all, he won the Tour no thanks to his TT abilities and deserve a downgrade in the same way betancur deserve a downgrade for not getting results in the dicipline for two years. Geez Froome is a hard worker and a double tour de france winner, why not give him 80 sprint as well.
Edited by Naxela on 26-07-2015 00:48
New York Knicks - Bardiani CFS - AG2R - Millwall FC - Le Havre AC
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| atlanta |
Posted on 26-07-2015 03:39
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1220
Joined: 31-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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I think some who want such low rec are the ones who think Quintana is a certain TDF winner if not for stage 2. Froome would have raced completely diff if he was not far ahead so you cannot just say that. And even if you do well Quintna basically wins the TDF by 17 secs so why such high rec he would win this years TDF easily. Should have 1 or 2 diff max.Why should Froome get such low rec he was way ahead of all the other contedners still really and he is sick. Quintana had the record on Tousuiree how far was CF back? Not far atall. |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 26-07-2015 06:50
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Naxela wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
Naxela wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
Smal wrote:
Don't think Froome deserves such a high TT/Prologue stat. Hasn't had such good results in that discipline for a while.
He didn't had to produce good results because he trained more this year in the mountain than the TT because the tour was mostly mountainous, shortest TT in history of tour
Him training less TT does not really help him keeping his TT stat. He have not been one of the best TT/Prologue riders for two years and therefor deserve a small downgrade. Of course he have to produce good results too keep his stat, does Betancur deserve a 80 Hil stat because he didn't train as much climbs the last two years?
Betancur isn't a hard worker that's why he doesn't deserve 80 hill but when you look at froome is working much harder and is about to be crowned the new tour de france winner
So because Froome won the Tour he deserve to keep his TT stat even though he haven't proven anything? Like you said yourself the amount of TT kilometres is a record low in the Tour so that argument makes literally no sense at all, he won the Tour no thanks to his TT abilities and deserve a downgrade in the same way betancur deserve a downgrade for not getting results in the dicipline for two years. Geez Froome is a hard worker and a double tour de france winner, why not give him 80 sprint as well.
Are you trying to joke right now ?
It's like saying that because contador was so poor in mountain he should be 78 |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 26-07-2015 07:23
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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kissaha wrote:
I don't quite see why that is relevant. Stage 10 was completely flat before the mountain, which favors Froome quite a bit. Over all the mountain stages, Quintana has gained time on Froome, so I don't see how Froome can have higher MO. And if you see my post above, you can't drag RES in to your arguments. They should have equal MO, and Froome quite a bit lower REC. Flat does not Froome to the world's best GT rider and the strongest in the first two weeks of the race. This makes among other things, like RES. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 07:14
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| kissaha |
Posted on 26-07-2015 07:35
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Sprinter
Posts: 1803
Joined: 21-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
kissaha wrote:
I don't quite see why that is relevant. Stage 10 was completely flat before the mountain, which favors Froome quite a bit. Over all the mountain stages, Quintana has gained time on Froome, so I don't see how Froome can have higher MO. And if you see my post above, you can't drag RES in to your arguments. They should have equal MO, and Froome quite a bit lower REC. Flat does not Froome to the world's best GT rider and the strongest in the first two weeks of the race. This makes among other things, like RES.
Froome has 6 higher Flat than Quintana, that makes a huge difference. Again, I suggest you read what the RES stat actually does. |
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| kissaha |
Posted on 26-07-2015 07:42
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Sprinter
Posts: 1803
Joined: 21-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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atlanta wrote:
I think some who want such low rec are the ones who think Quintana is a certain TDF winner if not for stage 2. Froome would have raced completely diff if he was not far ahead so you cannot just say that. And even if you do well Quintna basically wins the TDF by 17 secs so why such high rec he would win this years TDF easily. Should have 1 or 2 diff max.Why should Froome get such low rec he was way ahead of all the other contedners still really and he is sick. Quintana had the record on Tousuiree how far was CF back? Not far atall.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. We can't set stats based on assumptions. With that said, Froome showed all along the Tour, that he doesn't lose time voluntarily, if he'd had the power to follow Quintana in the last two stages, he would have. What leader loses time on purpose? Regarding the bronchitis, ten Dam has bronchitis, look how he has performed the last stages...
A 1 or 2 difference in REC has literally no effect at all. Froome gained 1 minute on the first mountain stage, and lost 1 min 20s on the last. He has a clear linear decline over the Tour. A 6 - 8 difference in REC between him and Quintana is more than justified. It's not like he isn't going to win GTs in PCM anymore, he has won quite a few on my saves. |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 26-07-2015 07:54
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
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Flat do not Froome stronger than Quintana upward in the first two weeks. Cancellara and Martin have much more in the flat, but it does not make them better upwards.
I know what the RES does and it fits perfectly with that Froome is stronger in the first two weeks. |
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| kissaha |
Posted on 26-07-2015 08:01
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Sprinter
Posts: 1803
Joined: 21-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Flat do not Froome stronger than Quintana upward in the first two weeks. Cancellara and Martin have much more in the flat, but it does not make them better upwards.
I know what the RES does and it fits perfectly with that Froome is stronger in the first two weeks.
Oh my... With a high flat stat you save energy on the flat. If the tempo is high on the flat, you save even more energy. Therefore it gives Froome a big advantage.
How does a high RES stat for Froome fit perfectly? RES stat has nothing to do with the first, second or third week, it is a constant. Please explain. |
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 26-07-2015 08:09
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 857
Joined: 13-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Flat do not Froome stronger than Quintana upward in the first two weeks. Cancellara and Martin have much more in the flat, but it does not make them better upwards.
I know what the RES does and it fits perfectly with that Froome is stronger in the first two weeks.
The higher flat means he relaxes more in flat stages. Resistance means ability to drive with an effort for a long time-basically the yellow bar. It also affects refilling of yellow bar after attacks. Both Froome and Quintana made some attacks. But they were on different stages. However, the attacks were very similar. I'd give them equal RES maybe +1 for Froome. Froome except of stage 10 hasn't shown anything for good RES. Quintana showed both on la Toussuire and Alp d'Huez that he also deserves high RES. Nibali as well in stage 19. And so did Conta in the Giro stage 16. if there are to be any differences they shouldn't be higher than 1-2 points. |
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| Naxela |
Posted on 26-07-2015 09:51
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Stagiare
Posts: 169
Joined: 25-02-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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fidjim2013 wrote:
Naxela wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
Naxela wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
Smal wrote:
Don't think Froome deserves such a high TT/Prologue stat. Hasn't had such good results in that discipline for a while.
He didn't had to produce good results because he trained more this year in the mountain than the TT because the tour was mostly mountainous, shortest TT in history of tour
Him training less TT does not really help him keeping his TT stat. He have not been one of the best TT/Prologue riders for two years and therefor deserve a small downgrade. Of course he have to produce good results too keep his stat, does Betancur deserve a 80 Hil stat because he didn't train as much climbs the last two years?
Betancur isn't a hard worker that's why he doesn't deserve 80 hill but when you look at froome is working much harder and is about to be crowned the new tour de france winner
So because Froome won the Tour he deserve to keep his TT stat even though he haven't proven anything? Like you said yourself the amount of TT kilometres is a record low in the Tour so that argument makes literally no sense at all, he won the Tour no thanks to his TT abilities and deserve a downgrade in the same way betancur deserve a downgrade for not getting results in the dicipline for two years. Geez Froome is a hard worker and a double tour de france winner, why not give him 80 sprint as well.
Are you trying to joke right now ?
It's like saying that because contador was so poor in mountain he should be 78
No that's not what i'm saying, Contador have enough results in the mountains for the last two years which would justify a 81+ mnt stat, while Froome have no results within the last two years to justify a high TT stat. 
New York Knicks - Bardiani CFS - AG2R - Millwall FC - Le Havre AC
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 26-07-2015 10:18
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Many people says Uran 79. But I think he deserves 78 like Hesjedal
For me Bardet is 79 and Bardet is more climber than Rigoberto |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 26-07-2015 10:46
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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AiZaK wrote:
Many people says Uran 79. But I think he deserves 78 like Hesjedal
For me Bardet is 79 and Bardet is more climber than Rigoberto
Uran is a standard 78 climber and his TT skills make him a strong GT contender in a weaker GT field.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 26-07-2015 11:16
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| Dusen |
Posted on 26-07-2015 10:56
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1173
Joined: 30-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I agree Uran is 78 imo
Bardet was able to fight with the best in few occasions this tour, and looked strong on the climbs, so i agree that he should be 79 as well.
Peraud downgrade from 79 to 77-78? |
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| wouty006 |
Posted on 26-07-2015 11:04
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Under 23
Posts: 82
Joined: 24-02-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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I don't know what his stats are atm but Pantano should have 70+ downhill, he was the only one of the breakaway that managed to follow Sagan for a pretty long time.
I would also give Serge Pauwels an upgrade in stats |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 26-07-2015 11:24
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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@Dusan,
Yer Bardet is a srong 79 and I think will get better in the coming years. The problem though is that French GT riders always have TT as their Achilles heel, so at times you need to boost their climbing stats to a good level for gameplay.
Peraud is an exception as he's a good TT rider but this tour he had some bad crashes and luck. Even after the last tour I only had him at 78 and will still keep him at that. For the simple reason is that if he's 79 the game AI will designate Peraud as the leader of Ag2r instead of Bardet (as he has a much better TT ability) when Bardet for the Tour at least should be their leader.
@Wouty
I've upgrade Pauwels a bit, I added a point or two to his mtn stat and boosted his ftr stat a bit. He's a actually a steady if not spectacular climber anyway and usually makes the Belgian WC road race squad for hilly circuits, so he's a good rider. |
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| Rammus |
Posted on 26-07-2015 12:07
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Stagiare
Posts: 223
Joined: 08-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Regarding Froome's TT stat it's true he hasn't had many strong results recently but I will say he almost won the TDF Team TT by himself. Looked like he was on the front 90% of the time. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 26-07-2015 12:38
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Rammus wrote:
Regarding Froome's TT stat it's true he hasn't had many strong results recently but I will say he almost won the TDF Team TT by himself. Looked like he was on the front 90% of the time.
Well he's already been downgraded on the DB to 78 and any lower than this would be silly really. He hasn't had the opportunity to ride any long TT's anyway as there were none in the Tour, but if he had to I'm sure he'd perform well anyway., so no need to reduce him to less than 78. |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 26-07-2015 16:39
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Naxela wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
Naxela wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
Naxela wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
Smal wrote:
Don't think Froome deserves such a high TT/Prologue stat. Hasn't had such good results in that discipline for a while.
He didn't had to produce good results because he trained more this year in the mountain than the TT because the tour was mostly mountainous, shortest TT in history of tour
Him training less TT does not really help him keeping his TT stat. He have not been one of the best TT/Prologue riders for two years and therefor deserve a small downgrade. Of course he have to produce good results too keep his stat, does Betancur deserve a 80 Hil stat because he didn't train as much climbs the last two years?
Betancur isn't a hard worker that's why he doesn't deserve 80 hill but when you look at froome is working much harder and is about to be crowned the new tour de france winner
So because Froome won the Tour he deserve to keep his TT stat even though he haven't proven anything? Like you said yourself the amount of TT kilometres is a record low in the Tour so that argument makes literally no sense at all, he won the Tour no thanks to his TT abilities and deserve a downgrade in the same way betancur deserve a downgrade for not getting results in the dicipline for two years. Geez Froome is a hard worker and a double tour de france winner, why not give him 80 sprint as well.
Are you trying to joke right now ?
It's like saying that because contador was so poor in mountain he should be 78
No that's not what i'm saying, Contador have enough results in the mountains for the last two years which would justify a 81+ mnt stat, while Froome have no results within the last two years to justify a high TT stat.
Results shouldn't be based on last 2 years but because of the performance of a rider during this season |
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| bob7 |
Posted on 26-07-2015 16:44
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Stagiare
Posts: 220
Joined: 27-01-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Results shouldn't be based on last 2 years but because of the performance of a rider during this season
So, you delete Marcel Kittel from DB ? Or gave him all 50s ? |
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