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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 17:52
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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Yeah but to be honest that whole race was fugged.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 17:57
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 857
Joined: 13-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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72 mountain seems fine for me can't do anything in a big race but can survive and do well on 50/50 mo/hill ratio stages that don't end on a climb like stage 16 this year. Oh and also +1 downhill even though it's already high.
Edited by dark_x2012 on 22-07-2015 17:58
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 17:58
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
I don't think giving Sagan a mountain boost to 73/74 would make him a contender in any way, for a high GC in most stage races of importance, but it would allow him to stay with a break of climbers on a medium mountain stage.
I'm not talking about only Grand tours but what about one week stages he would be in the top in my opinion because he's good in hills, he can sprint, he's also a good cobbler and he has already high rec stats, giving him 73/74 in mountains seems too much. |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 18:09
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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dark_x2012 wrote:
72 mountain seems fine for me can't do anything in a big race but can survive and do well on 50/50 mo/hill ratio stages that don't end on a climb like stage 16 this year. Oh and also +1 downhill even though it's already high. Agree 72 is good. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 22-07-2015 18:48
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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fidjim2013 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
I don't think giving Sagan a mountain boost to 73/74 would make him a contender in any way, for a high GC in most stage races of importance, but it would allow him to stay with a break of climbers on a medium mountain stage.
I'm not talking about only Grand tours but what about one week stages he would be in the top in my opinion because he's good in hills, he can sprint, he's also a good cobbler and he has already high rec stats, giving him 73/74 in mountains seems too much.
Well he's hardly going to win a Paris-Nice, Tirreno-Adriatico or a Tour of Catalunya on 73-74 mtn but he will win races like the Tour of California. |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 19:10
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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From what I've experienced throughout the last couple PCMs, Sagan always overperformed in the mountains and often was minutes ahead of anyone with a similar or slightly higher MO, so this is a really sensitive topic we need to test in the actual game.
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 19:11
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
I don't think giving Sagan a mountain boost to 73/74 would make him a contender in any way, for a high GC in most stage races of importance, but it would allow him to stay with a break of climbers on a medium mountain stage.
I'm not talking about only Grand tours but what about one week stages he would be in the top in my opinion because he's good in hills, he can sprint, he's also a good cobbler and he has already high rec stats, giving him 73/74 in mountains seems too much.
Well he's hardly going to win a Paris-Nice, Tirreno-Adriatico or a Tour of Catalunya on 73-74 mtn but he will win races like the Tour of California.
It depends of the variant in the race because if there's no stage with hard mountain 73/74 is good to get good gc with the kind of stats sagan has. His backup stats are already higher than most if not all pure climbers that are 73/74 in the game so it doesn't make sense to put sagan in that kind of position since he's not even a climber. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 22-07-2015 19:43
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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It depends of the variant in the race because if there's no stage with hard mountain 73/74 is good to get good gc with the kind of stats sagan has. His backup stats are already higher than most if not all pure climbers that are 73/74 in the game so it doesn't make sense to put sagan in that kind of position since he's not even a climber.
Which is exactly what happened at the Tour of California and 73/74 with his good back-up stats would make him a podium contender for races with medium mountain and also a strong breakaway type rider for stages in the Tour de France. |
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| FroomeDog99 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 20:02
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4573
Joined: 07-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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In my game Sagan beat many climbers stronger than him to finish second on the green mountain stage and win Oman with Froome and Contador present, so I don't think he needs an upgrade. With his current stats he is more than capable of challenging in one-week stage races.
Also, I think Teklehaimanot deserves a boost in his climbing stats with his performances here at this Tour as he's managed to stay with and even attack better climbers than him in the breakaways in previous days.
Edited by FroomeDog99 on 25-07-2015 23:29
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 26-11-2024 10:03
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 22-07-2015 20:08
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Sagan in mountain I would give 72/73 |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 22-07-2015 20:15
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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FroomeDog99 wrote:
In my game Sagan beat many climbers stronger than him to finish second on the green mountain stage and win Oman with Froome and Contador present, so I don't think he needs an upgrade. With his current stats he is more than capable of challenging in one-week stage races.
Also, I think Teklehaimanot deserves a boost in his climbing stats with his performances here at this Tour as he's managed to stay with and even attack better climbers than him in the breakaways in previous days.
Well I've raced the Green Mountain stage plenty of times and it's only ever won by the big GC men, I've never ever noticed Sagan even being that close to them. |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 22-07-2015 20:19
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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Keep Sagan on 70 MO. Its like with Tony. Tonys 73 MO feel like 75 MO. Sagans 70 MO feel like 75 MO as well. He could keep yellow until Stage 16 in my career.
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| sgdanny |
Posted on 22-07-2015 20:22
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3591
Joined: 18-03-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Okay before this discussion becomes pointless, I will have to point out that our stats come from results irl, where we don't put almost any weight on how the game reacts (which is what we got our stat matrix for)
Say I've seen a rider grow instantly by at leas +2 in a few months, I would still give him the stats he deserve from real results
So currently we have Sagan on 73 MO and his support stats should make him superior. He got a strong REC and his Fighter has been boosted. Sagan is really hard to have in a game, where he in reality makes senseless tactics, so he will always be hard to hit right in the game.
Primary focus for us is how they do in reality and that should also be the main focus on this discussion, since this is primarily about suggesting stats/riders for us to look at 
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 22-07-2015 20:44
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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sgdanny wrote:
Okay before this discussion becomes pointless, I will have to point out that our stats come from results irl, where we don't put almost any weight on how the game reacts (which is what we got our stat matrix for)
Say I've seen a rider grow instantly by at leas +2 in a few months, I would still give him the stats he deserve from real results
So currently we have Sagan on 73 MO and his support stats should make him superior. He got a strong REC and his Fighter has been boosted. Sagan is really hard to have in a game, where he in reality makes senseless tactics, so he will always be hard to hit right in the game.
Primary focus for us is how they do in reality and that should also be the main focus on this discussion, since this is primarily about suggesting stats/riders for us to look at
Well he's 72 in last DB and I've suggested 73/74 here, so your 73 is a nice compromise to end this with.
Also is there any increase for Preben Van Hecke who recently won the Belgian NC? |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 24-07-2015 02:59
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Froome boosted in hill, acceleration, downhilling and cobble.
Nibali boosted in cobble.
Majka boosted in fighter.
Sagan boosted in mountain, downhilling, sprint, and fighter.
Greipel 82 sprint.
Contador, Quintana and Nibali 1 down in mountain.
Mountain:
83: Froome
82: Contador and Quintana
81: Nibali
80: Valverde, TVG, Aru, Landa and Porte.
Sprint:
83: Kittel
82: Greipel and Cavendish
80: Sagan, Kristoff, Degenkolb and Bouhanni.
Edited by Arberg27 on 24-07-2015 03:36
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 24-07-2015 03:40
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Froome boosted in hill, acceleration, downhilling and cobble.
Nibali boosted in cobble.
Majka boosted in fighter.
Sagan boosted in mountain, downhilling, sprint, and fighter.
Greipel 82 sprint.
Contador, Quintana and Nibali 1 down in mountain.
Mountain:
83: Froome
82: Contador and Quintana
81: Nibali
80: Valverde, TVG, Aru, Landa and Porte.
Sprint:
83: Kittel
82: Greipel and Cavendish
80: Sagan, Kristoff, Degenkolb and Bouhanni.
I don't think sagan need a boost in downhill he's already equal with nibali in the game If i'm not wrong |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 24-07-2015 04:39
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
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Sagan is the best downhill in the world, also better than Nibali and Cancellara. |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 24-07-2015 06:19
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Sagan is the best downhill in the world, also better than Nibali and Cancellara.
Maybe you're right on this point, but I don't understand why you want nibali to have an upgrade in cobble ? he wasn't stronger in this tour cobble than last year and he didn't make any gap to take time. |
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| Jimmyson |
Posted on 24-07-2015 07:11
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Amateur
Posts: 3
Joined: 30-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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fidjim2013 wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Sagan is the best downhill in the world, also better than Nibali and Cancellara.
Maybe you're right on this point, but I don't understand why you want nibali to have an upgrade in cobble ? he wasn't stronger in this tour cobble than last year and he didn't make any gap to take time.
Right !
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 24-07-2015 07:49
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
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Nibali attacks on all seven paver and got rid of with all GC rider except Froome. The others came up again because the last 10km was a flat road in headwinds without cobble. Have you seen the race or are you just the result ?
Edited by Arberg27 on 24-07-2015 07:57
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