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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| Movistar |
Posted on 15-07-2015 01:50
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Domestique
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AP wrote:
Surely you would think if Froome had anything to really worry about, that he would have dialed it back a notch today and not just blazed the stage?
idk im no expert by any means, just common sense that if you are cheating, why make it so blatant and give people even more reason to ask the question.
Its interesting reading though, helps me learn more about stuff.
Have you watched anything Lance did? Clearly you havent to write what you did. |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 15-07-2015 02:03
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Movistar wrote:
AP wrote:
Surely you would think if Froome had anything to really worry about, that he would have dialed it back a notch today and not just blazed the stage?
idk im no expert by any means, just common sense that if you are cheating, why make it so blatant and give people even more reason to ask the question.
Its interesting reading though, helps me learn more about stuff.
Have you watched anything Lance did? Clearly you havent to write what you did.
Also, Emanuelle Sella in the 2008 giro. For me, that performance remains the most obvious thing ever.
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| Movistar |
Posted on 15-07-2015 02:05
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Domestique
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If he is going to go so in depth about Froome doping, he should know about Schistosomiasis and RBC count, it has given Froome and SKY the ability to defraud the bio passport due to the initial claim. |
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| Movistar |
Posted on 15-07-2015 02:23
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alexkr00 wrote:
Movistar wrote:
AP wrote:
Surely you would think if Froome had anything to really worry about, that he would have dialed it back a notch today and not just blazed the stage?
idk im no expert by any means, just common sense that if you are cheating, why make it so blatant and give people even more reason to ask the question.
Its interesting reading though, helps me learn more about stuff.
Have you watched anything Lance did? Clearly you havent to write what you did.
Also, Emanuelle Sella in the 2008 giro. For me, that performance remains the most obvious thing ever.
Well for sure, he was doped to the gills on Mircera which those crazy Italians thought they didnt have a test for. The actually didnt at the time but luckily he was caught.
Sella was at superhuman levels during those stages.
And I think that is your point, he rode like that because he thought and they all did that nobody had a test for what he was on.
That is exactly what Froome looks like he is doing. |
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 15-07-2015 13:52
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Thanks Mate  |
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| AP |
Posted on 15-07-2015 14:06
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Movistar wrote:
AP wrote:
Surely you would think if Froome had anything to really worry about, that he would have dialed it back a notch today and not just blazed the stage?
idk im no expert by any means, just common sense that if you are cheating, why make it so blatant and give people even more reason to ask the question.
Its interesting reading though, helps me learn more about stuff.
Have you watched anything Lance did? Clearly you havent to write what you did.
Not alot tbf, especially much that I can remember. Although surely if he was that blatant, then ti would add to the question of dialing it back?
idk, im not expert in the sport or on doping and how it works, just coming from a perspective from someone in my position, why make it look like you are cheating if you are... if that makes sense  |
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| Movistar |
Posted on 15-07-2015 14:40
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Domestique
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AP wrote:
Movistar wrote:
AP wrote:
Surely you would think if Froome had anything to really worry about, that he would have dialed it back a notch today and not just blazed the stage?
idk im no expert by any means, just common sense that if you are cheating, why make it so blatant and give people even more reason to ask the question.
Its interesting reading though, helps me learn more about stuff.
Have you watched anything Lance did? Clearly you havent to write what you did.
Not alot tbf, especially much that I can remember. Although surely if he was that blatant, then ti would add to the question of dialing it back?
idk, im not expert in the sport or on doping and how it works, just coming from a perspective from someone in my position, why make it look like you are cheating if you are... if that makes sense
It logically does make sense. But in all these cases people forget the ego of the people involved. That is why they never dial it back in every major doping case we have seen.
And ya Lance was ridiculous but so were plenty of others at the time so it was just kinda looked past. |
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| MartijnVDD |
Posted on 15-07-2015 16:52
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Even if Sky don't have some kind of doping program, they're still setting standards that other teams can't match and it will ruin the sport. The gap between big teams and small teams will increase, riders will risk their lives and/or dope themselves trying to match Sky's results, the sport will be all about technology instead of human effort etc.. |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 15-07-2015 17:00
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MartijnVDD wrote:
Even if Sky don't have some kind of doping program, they're still setting standards that other teams can't match and it will ruin the sport. The gap between big teams and small teams will increase, riders will risk their lives and/or dope themselves trying to match Sky's results, the sport will be all about technology instead of human effort etc..
Are they really setting unreachable standards? They have done well in the Tour 3 out of the last 4 years but outside of Froome and Uran picking up a couple if podiums they haven't been dominating the other GT's, Porte and Froome have picked up some 1 week stage races but hardly dominating all of them, they go missing in the classics with only Thomas getting some minor results. In 2012 they really were ahead of the game but that restarted the arms race and other teams have caught up.
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| Strydz |
Posted on 15-07-2015 17:05
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Movistar wrote:
And ya Lance was ridiculous but so were plenty of others at the time so it was just kinda looked past.
Also Lance did have an iron grip on the sport which helped keep the powers that be quiet, anyone who spoke out was taken on full throttle from the Lance/Johan myth protecting machine
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| Ton1Mart1n |
Posted on 15-07-2015 17:51
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Incredible how SKY leads non talents to become star riders.
Froome was nothing in his Barloworld days.
At least Armstrong was an elegant rider on the bike and a talent from the beginning even though he started as a pouncheur. Froome did not even show himselff as youngster which make me wonder. Anyway he looks silly and stupid on the bike like a kid Who rides the bike for the very first time
“When it’s hurting you, that’s when you can make a difference”
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| madzdaman |
Posted on 15-07-2015 18:00
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Stagiare
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Ton1Mart1n wrote:
Incredible how SKY leads non talents to become star riders.
Froome was nothing in his Barloworld days.
At least Armstrong was an elegant rider on the bike and a talent from the beginning even though he started as a pouncheur. Froome did not even show himselff as youngster which make me wonder. Anyway he looks silly and stupid on the bike like a kid Who rides the bike for the very first time
Just because he's not a pretty bike rider, doesnt mean he's a doper, or is less of a talent, or even less deserving. it just means he's less nice to watch. for example, Degenkolb is the ugliest sprinter i have ever seen. i find it hard to watch him sprint with his headbanging motion. doesnt mean he's not deserving of his wins....
Also, to be able to survive on most days in the peloton and not crash out, he must be AMAZING at handling a bike. not as elegant, but still one of the best in the world.
Still hate him though. he is just such a prick in interviews. Reminds me of Armstrong in the "how dare you accuse me of cheating in a sport where it is probable that everyone cheats". saying that, i would be a bit irritated of doping questions in every press conference i attend.
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| Ton1Mart1n |
Posted on 15-07-2015 18:32
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madzdaman wrote:
Ton1Mart1n wrote:
Incredible how SKY leads non talents to become star riders.
Froome was nothing in his Barloworld days.
At least Armstrong was an elegant rider on the bike and a talent from the beginning even though he started as a pouncheur. Froome did not even show himselff as youngster which make me wonder. Anyway he looks silly and stupid on the bike like a kid Who rides the bike for the very first time
Just because he's not a pretty bike rider, doesnt mean he's a doper, or is less of a talent, or even less deserving. it just means he's less nice to watch. for example, Degenkolb is the ugliest sprinter i have ever seen. i find it hard to watch him sprint with his headbanging motion. doesnt mean he's not deserving of his wins....
Also, to be able to survive on most days in the peloton and not crash out, he must be AMAZING at handling a bike. not as elegant, but still one of the best in the world.
Still hate him though. he is just such a prick in interviews. Reminds me of Armstrong in the "how dare you accuse me of cheating in a sport where it is probable that everyone cheats". saying that, i would be a bit irritated of doping questions in every press conference i attend.
I did not call him a doper, did I?
I just questioning his coming from nowhere journey, like Brailsford wanted his captain to be British. Clearly SKY had creater talents like EBH but they didnt even gave him a chance.
SKY is just the modern US POSTAL , Brailsford the new Bruynel and Froome the clumsy ARmstrong.
“When it’s hurting you, that’s when you can make a difference”
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| madzdaman |
Posted on 15-07-2015 18:53
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Stagiare
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Ton1Mart1n wrote:
madzdaman wrote:
Ton1Mart1n wrote:
Incredible how SKY leads non talents to become star riders.
Froome was nothing in his Barloworld days.
At least Armstrong was an elegant rider on the bike and a talent from the beginning even though he started as a pouncheur. Froome did not even show himselff as youngster which make me wonder. Anyway he looks silly and stupid on the bike like a kid Who rides the bike for the very first time
Just because he's not a pretty bike rider, doesnt mean he's a doper, or is less of a talent, or even less deserving. it just means he's less nice to watch. for example, Degenkolb is the ugliest sprinter i have ever seen. i find it hard to watch him sprint with his headbanging motion. doesnt mean he's not deserving of his wins....
Also, to be able to survive on most days in the peloton and not crash out, he must be AMAZING at handling a bike. not as elegant, but still one of the best in the world.
Still hate him though. he is just such a prick in interviews. Reminds me of Armstrong in the "how dare you accuse me of cheating in a sport where it is probable that everyone cheats". saying that, i would be a bit irritated of doping questions in every press conference i attend.
I did not call him a doper, did I?
I just questioning his coming from nowhere journey, like Brailsford wanted his captain to be British. Clearly SKY had creater talents like EBH but they didnt even gave him a chance.
SKY is just the modern US POSTAL , Brailsford the new Bruynel and Froome the clumsy ARmstrong.
Comparing Sky to US Postal and Froome to Armstrong? you pretty much did. this is also a Sky doping thread so if you weren't calling him a doper, wrong thread. he didn't want his leader to be Froome though, who was brought in as a domestique. he wanted a british winner, and then a french winner of the tour. he got that with wiggins, and just wanted to have the best rider win. just because froome is british and Brailsford wanted a british winner is not proof of doping. the only comparison between Sky and US Postal is the huge budget and the climbing trains they had. i dont see Froome threatening other riders' wives like Armstrong did.
If anything, the 6.1 W/kg is "proof" but none of this rider style and comparisons to US Postal is.
His coming from nowhere is a decent argument, but there are way too many assumptions to be made for it to be true. I personally believe that he had a problem with his blood or whatever it was, and when that was fixed, he became a better cyclist. I also believe he dopes. I just dont like the hating on a specific rider and every single thing slightly suspicious or out of place is proof that he is a doper.
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| Dee-Jay |
Posted on 15-07-2015 19:52
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I'll come out with it at the start, I like Sky - they're a team based in my country with the majority of the best talents from it. They've achieved things we never thought possible with riders from the UK.
- Sky neutralise racing with their tactical style. Fair comment, totally understand that.
- Sky absorb talents and force them into the absolute service of the leader - no glorious attempts at breakaway wins. Fair comment.
- Froome has an ugly riding style. Fair comment, but really a reason to hate a rider??
- Sky are doping? No evidence, so why call them out? Someone said they've taken talentless riders and made them into winners. Multi Olympic gold medallist Geraint Thomas talentless? Multi Olympic gold medallist Bradley Wiggins talentless? Not really. The really suspicious GT wins are obvious aren't they - the likes of Cobo and Horner in the Vuelta. What about last year's tour? Porte was crap when he tried to take the leadership and again in this year's Giro. Surely a doping rider would've done much better.
TBH I don't like the negative tactics and their cold, passionless targeting of objectives at the expense of the traditional elements of cycling. In particular I hated the way they left riders like Ben Swift out of the Tour last year despite the race having stages in his home county - no other team would've done that.
So, plenty to dislike about Sky, but doping? No evidence, so give the benefit of the doubt. It's quite perverse that continuous dopers don't get any hate. |
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| Kritzo |
Posted on 15-07-2015 20:13
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When people mention talentless they obviously mean Froome. Not G or Wiggo.
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| clamel |
Posted on 15-07-2015 20:34
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Amazing when a team that found a success way can stir up minds, but then perhaps it all ends like Lance Armstrong. Years of admire and question and denial, follow by admitting and total hate.
Until then I for one will enjoy the ride, like in so many other sports today. The doping is all around us, and until someone is caught I think the only way to still enjoy sports is to just hope it's all clean even if it sometimes is hard to believe)
Lots of strange things back in my days, but test was not good and the stuffs was not as complicating as today. Everything has evolved and that is surely sad.
But face it...
We have to live with it, or just start gardening full time.
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| deek12345 |
Posted on 15-07-2015 20:51
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https://soundclou...ris-fromme
ross tucker podcast on froome /sky
Edited by deek12345 on 15-07-2015 21:06
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 15-07-2015 22:35
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Thanks, Ross tucker is brilliant, I enjoy all this stuff. |
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| Naxela |
Posted on 16-07-2015 00:06
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Dee-Jay wrote:- Sky are doping? No evidence, so why call them out? Someone said they've taken talentless riders and made them into winners. Multi Olympic gold medallist Geraint Thomas talentless? Multi Olympic gold medallist Bradley Wiggins talentless? Not really. The really suspicious GT wins are obvious aren't they - the likes of Cobo and Horner in the Vuelta. What about last year's tour? Porte was crap when he tried to take the leadership and again in this year's Giro. Surely a doping rider would've done much better.
You can get a hundred olympic medals and still never be able to get a top ten in a GT, i dont think that valid point. Gor some reason i'm not questioning if Wiggins is clean or not, as he have had a pretty normal curve in development as a climber.
I'm more worried about Froome as he never achived anything besides some minor African races until he attended his first big race which was the Vuelta and took the podium (No doubt he would've won if he didn't have to drag Wiggins around).
Porte has of course been a pretty good climber in his Saxo days, a bit similar to Rohan Dennis in many ways. But he never achived that many results untill he signed for Sky, it only took him six months after he signed to Sky until he got his first big result (Volta Algarve). Of course some might have to do with the fact he had a better team around him but i would still call it suspicious.
When it comes to Thomas i got no clue, he is somewhat in my eyes a suspicious rider but he always had a big engine and pretty similar to Wiggins in many ways, and he have been for at least a couple of years a decent climber.
But yes, is there still anyone questioning if Cobo was clean or not?
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