kyanto wrote:
I was wondering.. does RES have an impact when simulating? Did they completely turn it off or only for 3D?
It does work for simulation atleast for mountain stages, for example 8 same stat climber with 4 85 and 50 RES going to end up as first group with only the 85 RES and second group with 50 RES climbers most of the time
Thanks to everyone who did the testing, awesome job people. But these things are so worrying, how we can believe Cyanide even a word?
Either programmers does not have a clue about what they are doing, or they are intentionally doing that to have less work and problems. Unfortunately 90% of buyers are still happy and fooled by constant graphic updates and PR (we can see it here when people speak about awesome mountain AI, while it is utter boredom,always the same favourites attack at the foot of the climb).
Also nice that somebody FINALLY crushed the stamina matters only for 200+kms stages thing. I am saying that at least a year, specially in MG forums. ( Also thnaks to that, Hoffman is so successful ).
resistance was not generate by the yellow bar reliser well your game manual,
2011 pcm it says the blue bar (remove in 2008) (pence but I rather that it is the red bar as acceleration which is the red bar, resistence = time of a red bar is exhausting and accelerate = Explosive rider
on Pcm 2012 (manual) it says on the inconsistency with compare to Pcm 2011
Resistance (RES)
resistance is punch the runner. More resistance is
, the more attacks the rider can be long. In the interface of race,
corresponds to the green bar.
(but he says this'' more resistence, the more attacks the rider can be long.)
I agree with the REC/RES criticism above here though
And Stamina won't affect any speed in terms of riding I think, rather the speed that the green bar drops. And when the green bar drops, you'll get a higher heart rate easier, I think.
Your correct on Stam, no question. Take a team who has one of the highest rated riders in the game or create one with 85 Stam. Unless you attack non stop or ride a high effort 75+ seems to get the HR climbing. The green bar will move much slower and if Stam is high, the red bar also seems to regenerate much faster.
I tested this in this manner.
Created a rider, stuck him on a team. It didnt matter what team as I attacked at the start. The goal get a gap alone, and keep it as long as I could before my bars where gone.
I tested on a hilly (cat 4 climbs only nothing bigger), and the distance of the stage was 175k. I was able to get up to a 9min gap. This was using attacks when it looked like the field had gained anything over 15s on my gap. If I was down to 8m 45s, I attacked again to get my gap to 9m constant. My effort on the stage was set between 75-85...to keep anyone from passing me, I hoped.
I was able to hold my break at 9min for 156k. Then my bars started to drop or not regenerate. I still had a decent gap of 2min with 168k finished. They caught me at 172k and I finished in the pack, 6seconds off the winner.
Next, I switched my Stam to only 35. Same race, same distance. I did manage to again get a gap attacking from the start. This time, my heart rate seemed to spike at an effort of 75, at 80 it was red, so I lessened my effort to 74. I managed to make a gap of 5min 10sec...but only could keep it for 55k this time, and was caught at 70k. By 80k I was near the back of the field. At 100k I was off the back and unable to stay with the pack. By 130k, I was 1m 55s behind the pack. At 155k, I was 2m 41s back. At 168, I was down 3m 10s...trying every trick to gain time or get into the pack. 170k I used my gel and managed to cut my time behind to 2m 45s.
I finished 2nd to last down 2m 51s to the pack and a huge 5m 10s to the winner.
Had I used my team with my 1st test Im betting I would of won the stage. Even using my team with test 2...I may of finished in the back of the pack...but still lost huge time to the winner.
It seems Stam plays a bigger role in the game from my test than it claims.
My riders best stat was 71f, the rest was set (by me) at 69. Only his Stam was altered between the 2 tests.
However to be sure this is 100% correct. 10 people about would have to try it. And at different difficulties. My difficulty was set on easy. 2 rides on a stage isnt "proof" to me that Stam plays that big of a role. However, it shows it may just indeed play that large of a role, and if I wanted would need tested many more times.
I figure if 10 others tried it. 5 with high Stam, 5 with low...on different diffucalties. We would beable to determine if it worked as it did in my test, the same way. But 2 tests dont show enough info to say yes or no.
Mystic587 wrote:
In Fact riders can perform all season long
Generally the REC-stat is resposible for the rider's recovery. Do you think, setting the REC-stat of every rider down (such as 10 points), would be a solution for this problem?
No, it wouldn't fix that problem, cyanide should make bigger differences between the fitness levels
Aziz wrote:
corresponds to the green bar.
(but he says this'' more resistence, the more attacks the rider can be long.)
Manuals are useless when cyanide itself doesn't know what their game does, and RES doesn't effect green, yellow or red bar either or how many times you can attack
Matrix wrote:
Your correct on Stam, no question. Take a team who has one of the highest rated riders in the game or create one with 85 Stam. Unless you attack non stop or ride a high effort 75+ seems to get the HR climbing. The green bar will move much slower and if Stam is high, the red bar also seems to regenerate much faster.
Did you even turn off daily form?
If you want to check time gap from a peloton accurately then make only your team race on that stage no randomness from other teams and use a low and high STA too in that race because wind changes for every race and u may have tail wind once and head wind the other time
Mystic587 wrote:
In Fact riders can perform all season long
Generally the REC-stat is resposible for the rider's recovery. Do you think, setting the REC-stat of every rider down (such as 10 points), would be a solution for this problem?
No, it wouldn't fix that problem, cyanide should make bigger differences between the fitness levels
Aziz wrote:
corresponds to the green bar.
(but he says this'' more resistence, the more attacks the rider can be long.)
Manuals are useless when cyanide itself doesn't know what their game does, and RES doesn't effect green, yellow or red bar either or how many times you can attack
Matrix wrote:
Your correct on Stam, no question. Take a team who has one of the highest rated riders in the game or create one with 85 Stam. Unless you attack non stop or ride a high effort 75+ seems to get the HR climbing. The green bar will move much slower and if Stam is high, the red bar also seems to regenerate much faster.
Did you even turn off daily form?
If you want to check time gap from a peloton accurately then make only your team race on that stage no randomness from other teams and use a low and high STA too in that race because wind changes for every race and u may have tail wind once and head wind the other time
Also true. Thats why it would need to be tested way more than 2 times. I am testing all stats to a degree in my season. They dont seem to match what Cyanide says about them.
Great example: Contador and Froome are close in stats. And very close in rec,stam,mt and acc. Yet Froome 1on1 with Contador almost makes Contador look like Froome's stats are double his. I attacked with Froome on a climb and Contador, with a teammate could not close the gap. Yet the next time I played a single stage, I was Contador. Froome countered and while he didnt pass me, he still managed to only lose 1s. That seems odd, considering with help Contador should of been able to close the gap when I used Froome. But he couldnt, yet somehow Froome alone can close a gap on Contador.
To me something is wrong with that. Had it been PCM 14, seeing Froome just won the TDF and out climbed Contador by a decent margin. I could see Froome having an edge. But this is 13, and looking at the stats...they are very close to allow that to happen. It would be like turning a WT team against only conti teams.
This makes me wonder how much real testing they did on the stats and fittness aspect before they released.
Kaimelar wrote: Flat: Effects the speed above -5% and under 5%, full effect is 0% towards the -5% and 5% effect decreases; no effect during TT; has decreased bonus on cobblestone stages depending on the length of cobble section, has decreased bonus depending on the difficulty of cobble section (on 5* section insignificant bonus)
Cobble: Effects the speed on cobblestone sections, also on flat parts depending on how much cobblestone is on the stage (for example: Paris-Roubaix, cobble stat weights more than flat stat on flat parts, meaning a 85CB,70FL is faster than 70CB, 85FL on non-cobbled flat sections)
Time-Trial/Prologue: Effects your speed during Time-Trials meaning you reach the finish with less energy used so you can use higher effort with higher TT/PRL stat, has no effect outside of Time-Trials; TT stat has no effect under 5km Time-Trials, PRL stat has no effect over 30km Time-trials; 17,5km long Time-Trial is the point when TT and PR are 50-50% used; Influence of TT decreases towards 5km from 30km, while PRL decreases towards 30km from 5km long Time-Trials; during Time-Trials when you run out of energy effort still makes difference meaning 99 effort is going to be faster than 60 effort
Downhill: Effects the speed under -2%
Endurance (Stamina): Effect after 165-170km, higher STA means higher speed
Acceleration: Effects how fast you can reach your top speed even if you attack, sprint or do free effort, it doesn't effect the red bar anymore; gel doesnt effect ACC anymore either; no effect for high grade slopes
Sprint: Effects the speed during the part of stage when you can use the 'Sprint' button, even if you're not sprinting; doesn't effect speed while attacking; it has no effect on mountain/hill(like hillunga, muy) finishes; stages have sprint/hill ratio
Mountain/Hill: Effects the speed over 2%, stages have moutain/hill ratio which decides how much impact each stat has
Fighter: Has no Effect for human players (in 3D mode)
Resistance: Has no effect in 3D mode for human players, have impact on simulation especially on mountain stages; used to effect yellow bar consumption in previous versions; Cyanide should fix it
Recuperation: Higher REC means more freshness regenerated after a stage. (worse freshness means less green, yellow, red bar at the start of the stage)
Energy comsuption: -143 uses no green, yellow and red bar, regenerates yellow and red bar 144-166 uses green bar but no yellow and red bar, regenerates yellow and red bar (166 didn't regenerate any yellow even after 120km) 167-185 uses green and yellow bar but no red bar, regenerates only the red bar 186- uses green, yellow and red bar, doesn't regenerate any bar
Energy Gel: Uses less red bar while gel is active (when its orange colored) so should be used when u attk/sprint or use high effort, since it only uses less red your attack lasts longer but it makes you use up more yellow bar because the effort lasts longer, doesnt effect ACC
Green moment (flashing red bar while attacking): Uses less red and yellow bar during the attack, making it last longer; it's way more effective than energy gel, doesnt effect ACC
Energy gel + Green moment effect stacks making your attack last way longer than a normal attack would
Misc.:
Attack and free effort 99 are same in energy consumption, speed and length of the 'attack', Sprint are faster than 99 effort but uses more energy
Cyclist's weight and height has no effect
I'm still not done with all my testings(mostly sprint and sprint/hill ratio ones, thread will be updated later).
I ran the tests with cutom made databases, stages with no daily form effect etc...
Hello,
I read all the posts in this thread, but I have some questions and since I the last post is over 2 months old, I think we should re-open it.
1. Did the patches changed anything in the attribution effects ? If they did, how ?
2. What is the effect that “fighter” stat have on non-human players ? Does this stats help the non-human player to go for a win on a breakaway ? I see that Voigt, Voeckler, De Gent, Flecha riders who are known for winning on breakaway have good fighter skill. So the high fighter skill means that the rider will try more often to go on a breakaway or that his bars will not go empty as fast as for a low-fighter rider while he is on a breakaway ? It is a small but I think very important difference.
3. How important is ACC ? In PCM 2012 ACC was extremely important for punchers for example and even for climbers. Now it seems to me more important for sprinters.
FTR for AI means more late attacks from them, I believe.
(So non-early-breakaway, I believe breakaway is more random)
Acc is different than PCM 12. In PCM 13 its really accelleration, in -2 it was the red bar.
Its still important in mountains and hills. With bad acc,'you can't follow attacks. With good acc, they can't follow you.
So it's really important, as a Basso/Gesink(LowACC), you'll have a hard time winning hilly stages, since short attacks arr decisive very often there ;)
Also, a question from my side, what about 2-3km long TTs?
Only PRL or does the SP/ACC stat help? FL? ;)
The Prologue and TT stats are the only stats, which matter, as far as I know. Instead of flat is is a combination of PRL and TT depending on the length of the stage. But I cannot give you the exact formula for the PRL/TT calculation.
SP is only used for sprints, nothing else. And you explained ACC yourself.
In PCM 2006 after winning an important stage (for example at Tour and getting the yellow), I remember a cyclist could increase suddenly above 3 points in Mountain if the stage was a mountain one (from 76 to 79 for example). Do you know if this happens in new PCM editions?
LLDS
2. What is the effect that “fighter” stat have on non-human players ? Does this stats help the non-human player to go for a win on a breakaway ? I see that Voigt, Voeckler, De Gent, Flecha riders who are known for winning on breakaway have good fighter skill. So the high fighter skill means that the rider will try more often to go on a breakaway or that his bars will not go empty as fast as for a low-fighter rider while he is on a breakaway ? It is a small but I think very important difference.
Jesleyh
FTR for AI means more late attacks from them, I believe.
(So non-early-breakaway, I believe breakaway is more random)
FTR does NOT increase the chances of a late attack. Or at least, not in the sense people mean.
The general thought, as far as i read across the site, is that riders like Voigt, De Gendt, Bernadeau who have high FTR stat (80+) will attack late on in a stage. But anyone that plays will quickly notice that this is not the case, plain and simple.
There are other defining factors that work causing a late attack. GC positions, Team Leaders, Breakaway gaps are all playing a part.
If the break has a big gap on a flat stage inside the final 50km there are few attacks. However if the break has a small gap (under 1'30ish) there will be attacks from various riders, usually high FL riders with low SP. These riders will usually have high FTR stats because that is how they ride in real life. But look at a lower stat rider such as Berandeau, who does not put in such attacks. Obviously he has energy but he does not attack despite having one of the highest FTR stats. Which of course begs the question why?
And again look at mountain stages. Take the Ventoux stage, which is one big climb at the end of the day. All riders arrive in pretty good shape. So you'd assume then, according the the FTR assumption, that De Gendt would attack. However you'll see that it's not De Gendt but the stage favorites, including those with low FTR like Wiggins and Basso.
I have put some decent hours into trying to figure this out, and frankly i still can't see what the FTR impacts on the AI. It's not "lateness of attack" and it's not "frequency of attack". It is also not "strength in breakaway" as that is covered by use of STA, FL, HL what ever other stats there are that define the energy bars and heart rate.
It DOES impact heavily in Quick Sim. Very quickly it becomes obvious that it has an affect, with the breakaways usually consisting of high FTR riders, including types like Bernadeau. It massively increases the chances of a player-rider getting into the break, and i assume it also works the same way for the AI. It looks like it works on a simpleish chance system. FTR 60 and 1 in 20 attacks sticks. FTR 80 1 in 5 attacks sticks (not actual numbers, but a representation of the idea)
Does anyone knows how the "favourite weather" and "Dislike weather", temperatures and "favoured Race" works? Does it give some kind of bonus to the AI performances?
´Cause I just tried riding Paris-Roubaix twice, with to identical riders, but one of them had Paris-Roubaix as his "favoured Race", but he lost both of the times, with about 2 minutes. And I find that very strange..
I had always assumed it gave a bonus in daily form. Therefore it's still pretty random but definitely boosts, or I may be another non working feature, not sure.
MrOBJ wrote:
Does anyone knows how the "favourite weather" and "Dislike weather", temperatures and "favoured Race" works? Does it give some kind of bonus to the AI performances?
´Cause I just tried riding Paris-Roubaix twice, with to identical riders, but one of them had Paris-Roubaix as his "favoured Race", but he lost both of the times, with about 2 minutes. And I find that very strange..
Have anyone tested it before??
I believe it's another feature that does not work properly. It certainly has been around for many editions, but has never been mentioned or changed by Cyanide. And i have never noticed it having an effect before, but that's partly because in most DB's those values don't exist at all, as in most riders don't have those preferences.
I'm fairly certain favored races is now overwritten because of the new fitness/objectives system.
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
