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Breakaways: AI vs Player
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| breezer |
Posted on 02-08-2009 15:03
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Stagiare
Posts: 209
Joined: 23-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Hey again guys.
So i have a new situation or just a wondering thing 
If u play in 3D mode, and u just see AI riders go for a breakaway.
Then can easy get like 5-7mins on the peloton..
without the AI arent doing anything, even not the Leading team.
But as soon as a player tries to breakaway, the AI just speeds up the pace and tries to follow you, so ur breakaway wont happend.
so my concern and questions are:
1. If u tries to breakaway at ur own, or with some AI riders: i guess it just does matters what riders that are in the breakaway (regards the GC) is that correct?
2: does anyone have some tips/tricks to breakaway (with or without AI riders), with a good rider? |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 02-08-2009 16:19
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 27880
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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About the speeding up thing, my experience is that the 1st rider is always caught while the 2nd one is allowed to go. So whenever the break is caught, counter-attack. |
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| moromete |
Posted on 02-08-2009 16:37
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Under 23
Posts: 82
Joined: 12-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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It does not feel like always for me. I play Normal with Saxo and as long as my main riders are not attacking, the breakaways get away, even if they get caught later, even if I sent one of my men with them.
It also seems that breakaways on flat courses, with sprinters and fighters, manage to gain ground quicker and stay away longer as long as everybody is working together. |
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| Roo |
Posted on 02-08-2009 16:40
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Stagiare
Posts: 218
Joined: 15-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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To me it really depends on the number of escapees (spelling?). If 10+ riders attack, the peleton will very often reel them in.
The problem is, that when the human player attacks, it seems like a "second attack". What I mean is, that the AI usually initiates the attack. I that second a number of AI riders will respond. If a human responds just a couple of seconds later, a new bunch of AI riders will join his attack. Therefore, the breakaway will likely contain more riders than usual, and the peleton will be more likely to try to reel them in.
In the mountains however, it does seem as if, there is a tendency to let AI riders go, but not human riders. An example was with Saxo Bank in le Tour, when I saw a group of riders, namely Moreau and Sanchez Gonzalez trying to escape, so I counter-attacked with Voigt, but they wouldn't let us go. Moments later Moreau and Sanchez went again, and this time (without Voigt) there was no problem. This made no sense, as Moreau and Sanchez were surely more dangerous in the GC than Voigt, who was 10+ minutes behind.
Oh, and you can often tell if your rider is let go by looking at whether the AI will relay when in a breakaway group with him. If they won't you'll never get away |
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| Gentleman |
Posted on 02-08-2009 16:56
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Free Agent
Posts: 138
Joined: 12-02-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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I often find myself pulling the short string as well. It doesn't matter whether anyone else is with me, but as soon as I start attacking regardless with which rider, the pack responds. This happens especially if I look which riders are away and I pick a rider which is slightly better than them to follow them.
Funny thing, it isn't always like that, but I couldn't tell when it happens and when it doesn't. Circumstances are often pretty similar, so it's hard to tell.
Even when I'm the owner of the yellow, mountain and green jersey and I send out a really bad rider who has absolutely no chance of winning anything, the pack hunts him down with everything they have. |
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| trops |
Posted on 02-08-2009 18:59
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Stagiare
Posts: 177
Joined: 28-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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This usually isn't a problem for me. The other day i had Wiggins in the pink jersey in the Giro and i attacked with Daniel Martin so i would have some help on the future climbs and we built up a lead that maximized at about 12 minutes. Unfortunately it didn't last but, I think the AI has a way of deeming certain riders as very dangerous and what not. If all else fails... wait till the pack is calm and the breakaway has about 2 minutes to 2 1/2 minutes and just attack with a strong rider and bridge the gap.
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| v1adimir |
Posted on 02-08-2009 19:22
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Junior Rider
Posts: 45
Joined: 18-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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I guess the game engine is programed to respond to any human attacks whichever riders take part in them. Of course, it's not fair, but it makes the game more interesting otherwise most of the races could be won easily. And again if AI riders attack they can run far away if you don't begin chasing them but the rest of riders in peloton won't care a bit. The game is made for us to make actions otherwise AI would be palying with itself... |
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| AaB-ern |
Posted on 02-08-2009 19:31
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 1350
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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Well, in PCM, it's basically just 19 teams versus you. The AI responds on breakaways by increasing the pace a lot more often, when you have a rider in the breakaway, even if he is weaker than the other escapees.
But I guess that was the easiest way for Cyanide to avoid the player wins all races.
Edited by AaB-ern on 02-08-2009 19:32
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| breezer |
Posted on 02-08-2009 20:41
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Stagiare
Posts: 209
Joined: 23-06-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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so as i can hear from you guys.
cyanide should actually try to reprogram this thing.
Because i have the same experience as many of u have.
I cant make an attack with 1-5 people.
i can with like 10, because the AI follows you, but it want get more than 3-4mins tops.
In the mountains it can happend yes.
Another thing i thought of:
Im currently experiencing all this in my careers, so can it have something to do, in wich races u are, and what the AI thinks of ur current Form and position in the race or what do u guys think of this?
i will try later today and make some normal races to see if there are a difference.
Or does any of u have some experience there? |
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| rontgen |
Posted on 03-08-2009 08:59
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 399
Joined: 13-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I don't completely agree.
I manage to get alot more than 3-4 mins even on flat stages. Had up to 10-11 mins at one stage recently (but was caught anyhow). Breakaways are a delicate matter, some of the influencing parameters are:
Which riders are on it?
How many are they?
Are they dangerous for the GC?
Which team controlls the pace?
On a flat stage the pack will almost always react to breaks larger than 7 (just pulled that number out of the air), while a smaller break is more likely to make it.
Now, I'm not saying it's perfectly implemented since it's not. The sprinter teams works almost too well toghether to bring the break back and not sledomly does a team that has a rider in the break participate in the chase. Leading to breaks almost always beeing caught. |
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| spar |
Posted on 03-08-2009 10:10
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Amateur
Posts: 6
Joined: 10-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Have the same thing, gets annoying really fast.
What I do is I let riders jump with breakaways from whom I know they wont make it anyway in a real race.
Than I hope for a +6 minutes lead, which is pretty hard cause somehow the AI always does relays at 40%... Anyway, I wait and at around 40 km for the finish, I jump away, and if you still have around +2 minutes you'll make it with a decent rider.
It's the only time I won a 'breakaway', however getting there with a few minutes lead and a breakaway group to tired to chase you is pretty hard. |
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| Gizim |
Posted on 03-08-2009 11:12
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Junior Rider
Posts: 41
Joined: 20-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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About the speeding up thing, my experience is that the 1st rider is always caught while the 2nd one is allowed to go. So whenever the break is caught, counter-attack.
Same here, yet 99 out of 100 times the breakaway get caught in my games. To have most success with breakaways are stages later on in a grand tour, as alot of riders in the peloton are very tired. |
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| Roo |
Posted on 03-08-2009 12:12
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Stagiare
Posts: 218
Joined: 15-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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A good way to tell if breakaways will be allowed all the way to the finish is if the sprinter teams send guys out there. This happens very rarely, but when it does the peloton won't start chasing until like 40 kms from the finish, when the breakaway has 12+ minutes. |
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| Smoku |
Posted on 03-08-2009 13:55
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Domestique
Posts: 406
Joined: 22-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Roo wrote:
A good way to tell if breakaways will be allowed all the way to the finish is if the sprinter teams send guys out there. This happens very rarely, but when it does the peloton won't start chasing until like 40 kms from the finish, when the breakaway has 12+ minutes. Can't confirm this pattern really... Many times I've seen breakaways beeing chased by a sprinter team, which had a man in the breakaway. Guess it depends more on the quality of that rider and his capacity to win from the rest of escapers. But there's no real pattern in it - in my opinion.
Anyway the number of successful breakaways in the game is small, because that's the same in the reality. Seriously, how many successful breakaways have You seen out there unless it's a very long, cobblestone classic or a hilly, tricky stage? |
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