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Difficulty level implemetation
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| rontgen |
Posted on 25-06-2009 13:00
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Domestique
Posts: 403
Joined: 13-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Are the difficulty levels (easy, normal, hard, extreme) implemented differently in '09 than in '08? This has always been a main issue for me. Ultimately it leads to me burying the game after a while. (I usually pick it back up after a certain time, but only to bury it again).
In '08 it the procedure was giving penalties/bonuses to AI cyclists, based on the difficulty level. This is just ridicoulus. Just did Tour of Taiwan on hard: my sprinter was not able to keep up with his fellow breakaway partners when sprint bonuses were due (even though he was better in all important stats (flat, fighter etc) and vastly better in sprinting (75 vs ~65)) and he got outsprinted.
The thing that just caused me to give up on '08 was when riding the queen stage. My leader was far superior to other riders in mountain stats (75 vs 68). I controlled the pace and once we go to the 12ish km long uphill finish the peloton was still together. When about 5-6 kms were left I attacked with my helper and countered with my leader (never running dry on yeallow or red). We got a good gap (~45 secs). Then the 2nd favourite (68 mtn) made his move. My leader was now in fornt alone. he was on ~70 .-> and everything was looking ok. When 3 km remained the 2nd favourite started gaining on my leader. 2 km remaining and he attacks. At 1.3 they were together. I jumped on his wheel as I were the better sprinter (74 vs 60). Guess who won the stage? Wasn't me. Just as bonus information, the total fitness of my rider was 90 ans he had a decent day (+1).
If these were isolated incidents, I might had been ok with them but this seams to be standard when playing on hard. When playing on normal, it's just too easy.
Sorry for rambling...
Now, is it implemented differently in '09?
Otherwise I will not be buying it. It just ruins the gaming experience for me.
Edited by rontgen on 25-06-2009 13:04
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| Ozzy |
Posted on 25-06-2009 13:29
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Domestique
Posts: 540
Joined: 28-11-2006
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Well, I played a lot in PCM08 and I haven't seen any problem with hard level. It was perfectly suited for me - not as easy as normal and not so unrealistic as extreme.
I've usually had realistic results or hard -> so if my leader was 5th favourite he usually finished 5th. If he was clear favourite no. 1, he was winning without bigger problems.
So it might just be issue with your skills, maybe also DB matrix - not a problem of difficulty levels. |
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| rontgen |
Posted on 25-06-2009 13:39
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Domestique
Posts: 403
Joined: 13-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Wheather or not it's due to my skills is not what bothers me. It's the idiotic implementation.
However, I also find normal way too easy and I can't really see how my skills influences such a simple thing as sprinting for bonus second in a group of three riders where mine is the best sprinter by far. |
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| schleck93 |
Posted on 25-06-2009 13:40
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3715
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Thats how it's done in every single game in the world with diffrent difficult settings
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Thor wears a live rattlesnake as a condom.
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| rontgen |
Posted on 25-06-2009 13:46
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Domestique
Posts: 403
Joined: 13-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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schleck93 wrote:
Thats how it's done in every single game in the world with diffrent difficult settings
Really? That's quite shocking. I've always thought the way to go about it would be to have different levels of AI. Chess programs must surely work that way, no? |
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| Ozzy |
Posted on 25-06-2009 13:51
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Domestique
Posts: 540
Joined: 28-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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rontgen wrote:
However, I also find normal way too easy and I can't really see how my skills influences such a simple thing as sprinting for bonus second in a group of three riders where mine is the best sprinter by far.
Well, other people who are playing the same game on the same level rarely have same problems, so... It's not really levels' problem. |
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| mattiasgt |
Posted on 25-06-2009 13:56
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2471
Joined: 15-03-2007
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schleck93 wrote:
Thats how it's done in every single game in the world with diffrent difficult settings
That's just untrue.
Edited by mattiasgt on 25-06-2009 13:57
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| Ozzy |
Posted on 25-06-2009 14:02
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Domestique
Posts: 540
Joined: 28-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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mattiasgt wrote:
schleck93 wrote:
Thats how it's done in every single game in the world with diffrent difficult settings
That's just untrue.
Yep, PES is good example - AI behaviour is different on every level of difficulty. In PCM AI always does the same - just worse or better. |
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| mrlol |
Posted on 25-06-2009 14:18
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Grand Tour Specialist
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This is the reason why I usually just play on normal or hard.
Though, dont expect Cyanide to change this in the next dacade. They've even got trouble making one set of AI tactics thats realistic. |
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| Ozzy |
Posted on 25-06-2009 14:30
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Domestique
Posts: 540
Joined: 28-11-2006
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mrlol wrote:
Though, dont expect Cyanide to change this in the next dacade. They've even got trouble making one set of AI tactics thats realistic.
I've heard they're working on new engine for PCM2010, so maybe AI will become more realistic... (so naive  ) |
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| mrlol |
Posted on 25-06-2009 14:34
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5005
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Yes it will. But they won't make 4 sets of AI tactics, with different difficulty levels. |
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 25-06-2009 15:48
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4790
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rontgen wrote:Now, is it implemented differently in '09?
In terms of sprinting, and the fastest rider winning when he should, it seems much better. |
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| Lefsa |
Posted on 25-06-2009 16:09
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Under 23
Posts: 75
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I couldn't agree more with you Rontgen! This is what really bothers me with 08. I drove a flat stage with Stegmans on hard. His form was 70. And he fell off!
Since then i haven't played 08. The difficulty should not have a big impact on if you can sit in the pack. But it should make it harder to win stage. And the AI should be better. |
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| Likkivi |
Posted on 25-06-2009 17:51
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Stagiare
Posts: 201
Joined: 30-09-2007
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I agree. It's lame that the diffuculty is based on loss of energy during the stages. I played extreme with Francaise De Jeux, and my whole team fell off during every flat stage in best form, and I decided to put in on hard again. It still pisses me off that cyanide did it this way, so unrealistic. The same as the new option with progressing sounds like after thinking about it. Unrealistic to be able to choose the progressing speed of riders, lame, lame, lame.
In normal difficulty you loose less energy than AI, but I'm not even sure if hard evens this out or makes the AI stronger than you. There should be one difficulty called "equal". |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 25-06-2009 17:53
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Team Leader
Posts: 5759
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Likkivi wrote:
I agree. It's lame that the diffuculty is based on loss of energy during the stages. I played extreme with Francaise De Jeux, and my whole team fell off during every flat stage in best form, and I decided to put in on hard again. It still pisses me off that cyanide did it this way, so unrealistic. The same as the new option with progressing sounds like after thinking about it. Unrealistic to be able to choose the progressing speed of riders, lame, lame, lame.
In normal difficulty you loose less energy than AI, but I'm not even sure if hard evens this out or makes the AI stronger than you. There should be one difficulty called "equal".
normal is equal
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| marble |
Posted on 25-06-2009 18:03
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 389
Joined: 28-07-2007
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This bothers me too, I only finished one season ever in 2008 and that was on normal. I dominated. After that I decided to try on hard, and then all my riders got worn out and couldn't sprint for stages or anything. I don't really know how it is in PCM 09 though as so far I've only been playing on Normal. |
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| Likkivi |
Posted on 25-06-2009 18:28
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Stagiare
Posts: 201
Joined: 30-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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mb2612 wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
I agree. It's lame that the diffuculty is based on loss of energy during the stages. I played extreme with Francaise De Jeux, and my whole team fell off during every flat stage in best form, and I decided to put in on hard again. It still pisses me off that cyanide did it this way, so unrealistic. The same as the new option with progressing sounds like after thinking about it. Unrealistic to be able to choose the progressing speed of riders, lame, lame, lame.
In normal difficulty you loose less energy than AI, but I'm not even sure if hard evens this out or makes the AI stronger than you. There should be one difficulty called "equal".
normal is equal
No, I have checked the other riders energy during many stages from bad riders to the stars and all of them lost energy faster than the same skill riders I had in the Tour. |
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| spudde |
Posted on 26-06-2009 13:01
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Free Agent
Posts: 130
Joined: 08-06-2009
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Imo it's totally useless to have difficulty levels in a manager game. For me it's pretty hard to think of a way to make tactics worse in cycling without making the game totally unrealistic at the same time. In football for example you can have the AI making not so many good moves or doing a worse job in their defensive formation, with the game still being realistic as these things happen in real life teams as well, but it isn't exactly the same in cycling. I have seen my share of ridiculous difficulty levels in different games where it bases on the fact that on harder levels the opponents are just faster, stronger and better than the players controlled by you. Cyanide should definitely remove all difficulty levels and concentrate on making the game as realistic as they can ( not saying they aren't trying to do it now, but from the comments and my experience I gather there is no perfect "difficulty level" at the moment which makes the faults of the AI even more visible). The best riders should be the best riders in the peloton and if the player wants a challenge, he can try to achieve good results with a worse team. |
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| Randeris |
Posted on 30-06-2009 16:55
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Amateur
Posts: 24
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spudde wrote:
Imo it's totally useless to have difficulty levels in a manager game. For me it's pretty hard to think of a way to make tactics worse in cycling without making the game totally unrealistic at the same time. In football for example you can have the AI making not so many good moves or doing a worse job in their defensive formation, with the game still being realistic as these things happen in real life teams as well, but it isn't exactly the same in cycling. I have seen my share of ridiculous difficulty levels in different games where it bases on the fact that on harder levels the opponents are just faster, stronger and better than the players controlled by you. Cyanide should definitely remove all difficulty levels and concentrate on making the game as realistic as they can ( not saying they aren't trying to do it now, but from the comments and my experience I gather there is no perfect "difficulty level" at the moment which makes the faults of the AI even more visible). The best riders should be the best riders in the peloton and if the player wants a challenge, he can try to achieve good results with a worse team. Couldnt agree more |
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| Maximka |
Posted on 01-07-2009 06:24
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Sprinter
Posts: 1902
Joined: 22-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Yep, I always start with continental teams - it's really challenge |
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