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Morale dropping question.
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| Gentleman |
Posted on 03-03-2009 07:38
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Free Agent
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Except for a few riders, most of my riders have an 'Over the moon' morale, due to me winning a lot of small CTT races and getting a lot of stage wins with my second best sprinter in the pre-season. My early-season mountain climber grabs a lot of mountain jerseys as well, but for some reason I have 3 riders who aren't over the moon.
Riding with Rabobank, by the way. First season.
1 - A team mate, De Maar, who I only started using in preparation for the Giro, and halfway the Giro he started dropping morale. He's depressed by now, but I sincerely don't have any clue why his morale started dropping. His fatigue is not even halfway and he's even nearing a peak. He hasn't won anything due to him being a regular team mate, though.
He gets dropped from the pack due to the higher mountains though, but he's never the first to get dropped, nor is he the only one. He usually finishes the stage with some energy left, as opposed to other happy riders.
2 - Another team mate, Eltink, who's my leader's helper in the mountains. He's won a few mountain stages and twice the mountain jersey before the Giro, so he was very happy. Yet, now in the Giro, his morale started dropping, despite him wearing the mountain jersey once again.
If I try to renew his contract, he doesn't want to change his rider status or salary either, so I assume that's not the problem.
His fatigue is not even halfway the bar, so considering his fatigue is one of the lowest in the pack, I suppose that shouldn't be a problem either.
He does get reeled in after going with breakaways though, which sometimes results in him not being able to keep up with the pack.
None of my other riders have these issues, since I often use the praise team option, which boosts the morale of other riders in the team. I'd assumed that it would boost the morale of both riders as well when winning stages in the Giro, but it doesn't. Despite others' morale going up due to these stage wins and riding in the pink jersey, the above 2 are still going down. It's not like their recovery isn't above average in comparison to other riders either.
Any ideas as to why the morale of these two cyclists is dropping and how I can get them happy again? Besides dumping them into a leisure camp, that is, I already knew about that option 
Edited by Gentleman on 03-03-2009 07:40
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| TankNL |
Posted on 03-03-2009 08:00
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Domestique
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I have the same in my carrier. Also in the giro with the Rabobank; using the 2008 DB from PCMDaily. Boom won 2 stages in the giro, and still he is depressed! I really don't get it. All I can think of is that he isn't a contender in the GC. Moerenhout and Mollema are also depressed! 3 riders who did their best in the Giro ended up being my top concern in this carrier. |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 03-03-2009 08:01
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World Champion
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isn't all about the wins.
It depends on how much races you raced with them and more important what races, and what races you didn't
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| TankNL |
Posted on 03-03-2009 12:10
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Still, it sounds like there's no logic in the development of the rider's morale.
@alexkr00; do you know how to raise the morale again?
Edited by TankNL on 03-03-2009 12:11
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-12-2024 10:16
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| contador_fan5 |
Posted on 03-03-2009 12:16
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@TankNL; you can put your depressed riders in leisure.. that usually helps raising the particulars morale |
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| Gentleman |
Posted on 03-03-2009 14:00
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TankNL wrote:
Still, it sounds like there's no logic in the development of the rider's morale.
I think there is definitely a certain logic in that. The only problem is that nowhere they are telling us (neither Cyanide's manual nor the riders in-game themselves) about why their morale is dropping. As I'm sure there's a legitimate explanation for that - just one not being told to us. |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 03-03-2009 14:05
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There are two ways how morale can drop so easy:
-the rider dindn't ride the races he wants to ride in
-you give the rider the wrong status (not the one which stands in his contract) in the race |
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| TankNL |
Posted on 03-03-2009 23:00
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Domestique
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Well... lets see Koos Moerenhout has a contract as a helper. Giro is 1 of favourite races and he was given the role of helper. Lars Boom has a contract as a master helper. He was given a free role throughout the whole Giro which also is 1 of his favourite races. Still both of them ended up being depressed. So still I think all suggestions made in this thread are plausible, but not corresponding to what actually happened in my carrier. I've sent them to a leisure camp, to see if I can get them out of the depression, but if anybody has the formula for decreasing morale, please step right up.
Edited by TankNL on 03-03-2009 23:01
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| Gentleman |
Posted on 04-03-2009 06:57
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cio93 wrote:
There are two ways how morale can drop so easy:
-the rider dindn't ride the races he wants to ride in
-you give the rider the wrong status (not the one which stands in his contract) in the race
Last time I checked PCM '08 didn't have the "programme" thing, which influenced whether you skipped your rider's favorite stage/race. So while I would believe you're right in '07, I doubt it's working the same in '08.
Yet, if you're right about this and it does influence it,
problem is with De Maar, his races are all taking place after the Giro - so he indeed hasn't raced any of his favorite races.
His contract: Team Mate. His role in races: Team Mate.
Eltink indeed missed Paris - Nice, but he did participate in GP el Pais Vasco, which is his other race. He's been given a free role there, even won a stage in the latter and won the mountain jersey. If that's not enough to boost your morale - especially with 7 out of 10 Grand Tour contenders participating - I don't know what would.
His contract: Team Mate. His role in races: Either Team Mate or Free Role, as he's free to ride with breakaways and snatch the mountain points, if he has a chance to win the jersey.
After a week in a leisure camp, Eltink went up from Very Unhappy to Unhappy though. |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 04-03-2009 16:25
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TankNL wrote:
Still, it sounds like there's no logic in the development of the rider's morale.
@alexkr00; do you know how to raise the morale again?
you can try to go with them in races where you know that there will not be big names and you think that you can win them, which will raise their morale, it worked for me with Menchov in my first year of my first carrer in pcm08
edit: but if you don't win the races with them (cause probably the small races aren't their favourite) the morale will go lower and lower
Edited by alexkr00 on 04-03-2009 16:27
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| Gentleman |
Posted on 06-03-2009 07:49
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Well, I've gotten all of my riders happy again by sending them off to leisure camps - therefore lowering their fitness with a couple of points. Not fun when you're almost entering the Tour de France - but at least a weakened happy rider is still a lot better than a top-form depressed one. However, I still don't have any evidence as to why they have become unhappy in the first place. |
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| Marginalo |
Posted on 09-03-2009 23:28
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It's a weird phenonomon. I don't get it, but during long tours, it's known to happen. Oh well, I can't blame them for this. It might be a tad bit realistic. |
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| Gentleman |
Posted on 10-03-2009 09:28
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I can imagine that a rider can become unhappy, when he has a low recovery and had to work hard for his leader. After a few stages, he will be down in the slumps and having trouble keeping up (perhaps depending on his personality/determination). That's realistic indeed.
Yet, when the pre-screen pops up and it says that rider X has recovered 'Very well', I don't consider the recovery a problem. Once it starts saying 'Average' or something, I think it should really get to him.
If there are no stage wins after a week or two and still no jersey to work for, I can imagine the mood dropping, even without a good recovery. On the other hand, if there are stage wins, or a team member wearing one of the jerseys, there should be a significant raise in morale and perhaps even recovery. Of course, if your team isn't aiming for such goals, since your team leader is only capable of getting a top 10 position and he's more than likely to achieve that, it shouldn't affect the team members in a negative way.
In the best sense, if a rider is wearing a jersey himself, it should affect him greatly. Whoever has seen Voeckler (sp?) when he got a hold of that yellow jersey in the Tour de France would agree that a jersey can do wonders |
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| Silence |
Posted on 10-03-2009 09:35
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I may be a bit naive, but could this be a private life or personality factor? 
Le'Sheep: If life's a bitch use a knife to get over it.
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| Ildabaoth |
Posted on 10-03-2009 09:57
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Moral dropping is weird indeed, anyways. In my Agritubel 2008 season, I had Moreau as leader and Gonzalo as free rider for the Tour. During second stage, Gonzalo fell down and lost like 5 minutes, even if I sent Lequatre and another guy to help him (Vogondy was in the break, Ista was leading Feillu for the sprint and Berges was covering Moreau, so I didn't have more manpower). After that stage, Gonzalo aimed for the Mountain shirt and not for a GC position (kind of natural; he was way behind). But even if he actually got the Mountain King award (kind of hard, because that damn Contador won every single mountain stage), his moral was not but dropping. Are you joking? You have not a GC possibility, you're winning the polka dot, you aren't working for anyone, you aren't even aiming for that race (he would be the leader for La Vuelta) and your moral keeps dropping? At the end of the race he was a very depressed King of the Mountain. You know, it is sad indeed to get that award. Poor him.
And yes, it is true, you wouldn't like to fall down and lose minutes, but you should consider the fact that the team tried to help you, several days later you're winning mountain points and stuff like that. But it seems the script is quite simpler: if you're a team leader and you haven't a great GC position, then drop moral as hell. |
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| Gentleman |
Posted on 10-03-2009 10:19
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It could be nice to be able to interact with a rider, like telling him that you want him to win the mountain jersey and not the GC since he's too far behind. That should give him a different objective, which should up his morale if he's actually capable of doing so. |
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| Ildabaoth |
Posted on 10-03-2009 17:37
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That is a great idea, Gentleman. But anyways I think it shouldn't necessary to talk to riders in situations like that. I mean, you've lost a lot of time in GC, you should be intelligent enough to know a polka dot is a nice reward. And yes, happiness is subjective, of course, sometimes you're happier with a 3rd place than with a 2nd one (it's a psychological thing -Medvec, Madey et Gilovich 1995-), so it can be hard to program that deeply. Actually, the whole moral thing even has a double edge: there are riders who get more motivated if things went wrong.
As moral thing is now, it doesn't make any sense: your rider's moral gets low so you either send him on vacations at september instead of training or you send him to win the challenging Tour of Utah. Yeah, right, top riders with low moral would love to go to the Tour of Utah or take vacations if they are preparing for La Vuelta. |
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| JustinWK |
Posted on 28-07-2009 11:51
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Sorry for bumping this old thread, but I have the same problem with Katusha in the Giro.
Karpets my leader is happy and in perfect shape, but his helpers Botcharov, Petrov and Horrach, are turning depressed halfway while it also says in their contracts that they are helpers. Really annoying...
Dwight K. Schrute: 'I'm not a hero. Im just a mere defender of the office. You know who is a hero? Hiro from Heroes. That's a hero. And Bono'.
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| MTSN98 |
Posted on 20-08-2009 14:03
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After reading this thread, I decided to investigate. After playing the 2008 Giro with Columbia (on easy), I found that Cavendish's morale plummeted from 'over the moon' at the start to 'depressed' at the end of it - even though he collected 5 stage wins and always stayed in the gruppetto during mountain stages.
As far as I am concerned, the easy way to increase morale is to talk to the rider through media posts when they have won or gotten a podium place. |
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| khris |
Posted on 20-08-2009 14:50
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Talking to the team when someone happy wins is also a way to increase morale amongst the helpers. I've had to do that quite a bit in some races. |
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