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Doping
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| Jaywol |
Posted on 10-01-2009 00:03
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Hi all. This have really struggled with this subject lately. I continually see posts here, where people tout the latest rider to be caught doping and actually relish the fact when their predictions come true. I love cycling, and I'm only a recent devotee, because I see a man powering a machine, over incredible distances, over incredible terrain, in incredible conditions, battling against other men. Cycling provides moments that prick the hairs on the back of my neck, such as Ballan breaking out of the pack for his win in the worlds, Armstrong on Alpe d'huez giving 'the look' and then dropping the pack, Rasmussen and Contador going head to head during the 2007 Tour, Floyd Landis's recovery after his disasterous stage in the 2006 Tour and many others. Amazing feats of human endurance and unfortunately, in the case of Landis and Rasmussen, too amazing to be true. But I do not revel in their cheating. I feel deflated, robbed, that this great moment of achievement is a lie, a fake. I find it hard to understand why people who have a genuine love of cycling and if they cycle themselves, know what a hard and unforgiving sport it is, revel in its heroes downfalls. Forgive my ramblings, but I just wanted to gauge others views on this subject and find out why the doubters, doubt so vociferously. Regards Jaywol. |
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 10-01-2009 03:01
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I think the major reason is because it has started to become an accepted part of the sport. Sure it will never be legalized, but doping is, for better or worse, a huge part of the sport. Now, if a rider pulls off a long breakaway, there is instantly suspicion. Yes, its true that often it is the case that the rider is doped (ex. Ricco), but its just part of the sport. And that I think is the major issue, because its now accepted, it doesn't have the repugnance to everybody that it once had. It used to be "He doped, dear god, thats horrible, ban him, strike his palmares, get him out of here." Now its "Oh, well, I saw that coming, see you in 2 years."
Personally I'm in favor of lifetime bans if a rider fails a test for something that is only used for performance enhancement or medical reasons the riders would never be involved in (aka, CERA, EPO) with no ifs ands or buts. If a rider has a legitimate case for why he shouldn't be given a ban (as in testing for something that he may have accidentally taken) then he should go before a panel and have it sorted out.
Edited by Deadpool on 10-01-2009 03:01
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| issoisso |
Posted on 10-01-2009 03:54
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Tour de France Champion
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I'm pretty certain the evolution is the other way around.
It used to be "oh....positive. ok. he gets 10 minutes added to his overall time. carry on with the race"
Now it's "F**K HIM BAN HIM" etc.
The only problem I still see is that most people are STILL amazingly naive.
The same things happen over and over and over and over again in a cycle and almost all fans fail to learn from it.
It's like having a house infested with rats and killing one. EVERY TIME the vast majority of fans will say "that was definitely the last rat" and will be shocked when the OBVIOUS happens (another rat is caught) yet again. It's always like that.
There have been oh so many doping scandals in the history of the sport and there probably hasn't been even a single one where the majority of fans haven't gone the same route (call it the innocent route or the idiot route, whatever you like) and declared that "now, surely it's a clean sport".
Failing to realise
A. A lot of very powerful drugs are undetectable or extremely hard to detect
B. (and this is the most important part) THAT A CERTAIN RIDER IS A GOOD GUY MEANS ZERO, NADA, ZILCH, NOTHING AS TO WHETHER OR NOT HE IS A CHEAT. And people know that, and think that, but refuse to admit it's the case with their particular favorite rider. Every time it's "not this guy...", only to be shell shocked when the guy's caught, even if it's a guy who openly admitted to using dope as a junior (no, not just Riccò, many more).
This seems like a rambling, aimless wandering rant, but there is a point here.
It's that, in all these things, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again the SAME EXACT things happen and most fans NEVER EVER learn from it. It's enough to convince one that the ridiculous saying that the masses are stupid, isn't so ridiculous.
As an aside, Deadpool mentioned the lifetime ban. I feel there are 2 main points to it:
- The UCI wants it, I don't see why anyone passionate about cycling wouldn't want it, but the WADA doesn't allow it yet. As of January 1st 2009, the UCI finally got them to extend the maximum limit from 2 to 4 year bans, so any new doping cases (believe me, they're coming. Anne Gripper has said so herself that the blood passport will result in a few in about February or so) will result in 4 year bans, not 2 years.
- The main problem is not in the riders. Ban whoever you want, the main cancer are the DSs, the Lefévères, the Saronnis, the Bettinis, and all the others who have it in their minds that it's impossible to win the major races clean and who will always stick that in their riders' minds (and sadly, they're right).
As for the original point of the post, it's not so much revelling in their downfall.
There are 2 different reactions:
- The disappointment and anger in realising the rider is doped;
- The feeling of justice when the rider is caught;
The reason you only see the second is simple: the people who you see having that second reaction have had the first one a loooooong time ago.
You've known for years that a certain guy robbed a bank. After many years, he's finally busted. Is part of your reaction going to be "oh no he robbed a bank! I'm so disappointed...."? Of course not, you've known that for a long time
Here's to the new tests for HGH and autologous blood transfusions that are coming this year. May they be fool-proof, or close to it (I know, it's a pipe dream of mine), so that the difference between doping and not doping can be reduced to negligible.
Over and out. |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 10-01-2009 10:13
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Grand Tour Champion
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One of the main problems is you can never know when nobody is doping. You can never prove that you're not doping.
and how did i know isso would have posted here
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| Wiggo |
Posted on 10-01-2009 10:17
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And you mentioned "the look". Armstrong said he was looking for teammates, not at Ullrich. |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 10-01-2009 10:18
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Grand Tour Champion
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and armstrong says he's coming back just for his cancer charity
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 10-01-2009 10:21
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I'd mostly agree with issoisso.
If you've followed cycling for a while, then the dope has always been there.
Doping was never a problem though when everyone was doping.
It's when you have some - like the French who are trying not to dope - racing others who are doping that you get into difficulties. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 10-01-2009 10:32
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Tour de France Champion
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fenian_1234 wrote:
Doping was never a problem though when everyone was doping.
It's when you have some - like the French who are trying not to dope - racing others who are doping that you get into difficulties.
That has always happened. Though widespread, doping has never been all-reaching. And even if it had been, it wouldn't have been fair.
Have you noticed how when a new test for a certain drug comes in, suddenly a few top riders's careers go in the gutter and never recover?
It's a fact that different drugs have wildly varying effects on different riders.
Depending on how your body reacts to it, if you get a crappy clean domestique on drugs, he can either have no improvement, or turn into a top rider. |
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| rodda |
Posted on 10-01-2009 11:42
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theres a doping issue in cycling?
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| schleck93 |
Posted on 10-01-2009 11:56
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There is an doping issue in every sport, even chees (nerve medication and similar). And in golf 2% of all doping tests comes out posistive.
BenBarnes wrote:
Thor wears a live rattlesnake as a condom.
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| rodda |
Posted on 10-01-2009 11:58
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Small Tour Specialist
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sorry forgot my [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags...
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 11:49
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 10-01-2009 12:01
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schleck93 wrote:
There is an doping issue in every sport, even chees (nerve medication and similar). And in golf 2% of all doping tests comes out posistive.
cheese is a sport?
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| Wiggo |
Posted on 10-01-2009 12:02
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Chess, I believe. |
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| schleck93 |
Posted on 10-01-2009 12:04
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
schleck93 wrote:
There is an doping issue in every sport, even chees (nerve medication and similar). And in golf 2% of all doping tests comes out posistive.
cheese is a sport?
Where do you see a cheese? but yes it was chess
BenBarnes wrote:
Thor wears a live rattlesnake as a condom.
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 10-01-2009 12:32
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issoisso wrote:
- The main problem is not in the riders. Ban whoever you want, the main cancer are the DSs, the Lefévères, the Saronnis, the Bettinis, and all the others who have it in their minds that it's impossible to win the major races clean and who will always stick that in their riders' minds (and sadly, they're right).
Thankfully those guys tend to be older than some of the newer DS's around here, the Vaughters' and Stapelton's of the world. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 10-01-2009 13:08
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Like Bettini ?
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 10-01-2009 14:06
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Aquarius wrote:
Like Bettini ?
Bettini doesn't count, but at least the majority of the old guard are advancing in years |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 10-01-2009 14:23
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Bjarne Riis, Gianetti, Bruyneel, etc. They're not any better, but they're younger.
I have little hope in the aging of current DS bringing us a cleaner cycling. |
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 10-01-2009 14:30
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Aquarius wrote:
Bjarne Riis, Gianetti, Bruyneel, etc. They're not any better, but they're younger.
I have little hope in the aging of current DS bringing us a cleaner cycling.
Probably not I guess, but at least their are a few DS's (mainly Americans) who are stringently anti-doping |
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 10-01-2009 15:02
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I just realized I posted a comment here. Broke a resolution of mine.
The only way to enjoy watching cycling is to forget all about the dope, imo.
I've come dangerously close to giving up on the TdF the last few years because they're making it impossible to forget....
Give me a CERA infested Giro with no failed tests any week of the year. |
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