I have been thinking. Ever since my first PCM adventures with PCM 2005, I have wondered about the realism in the game and tried to weigh it against the gameplay and the most important thing: Fun!
Something that has always bugged me is the feeling of distance in the game. If you think about it, the bikes must be something like 10-20 meters long to match the length of 100m in the game. Sprints start 3km away from the finish line. Prologues are ridiculously short.
Can this be made more realistic? Do we want that?
I hate the fact that it is very difficult to get a time difference when you have a small hole on a flat stage - but if there is one, it is rarely less than a minute. On mountain stages, if you don't finish within the first group, you'll lose minutes - and you can lose minutes in the sprint alone.
Would this be different if the distances were more realistic? Yes, I think so - but the stages would have to be so much longer that it would take forever to play one. Should the time laps have a x16 speed setting to match this?
Would all the fun go out of the game with more realistic distances?
I am seriously in doubt. I think the gameplay is pretty good, but I dislike that being distanced one cycle length on a mountain stage can mean you lose a minute. I dislike that the small differences like 5 seconds here and 10 seconds there on flatter stages are next to impossible to achieve. But would it be better with "longer" stages?
What's your input? Have you had these discussions before (I didn't find anything in my searches) ? Do you have better ideas?
I would say , it could have a reason why Cyanide uses "shorter" stages , you can take 1:1 stage scale but how you do it to have "real" results , thats a other question
My suggestions :
Speak with the rider (under 4 eyes) , ask him if he´s happy , say him that he will definetly take part at Le Tour , Giro , Vuelta or some great classics , say him that you like his results and he should keep on the great work , ask him which rider he would like to have (under 25 years old or experienced rider and then cobble , hill , mountain , sprint or plain) , after that you should recieve a feedback of the rider (what happened , Morale up or down , or what he thinks) , would be great because it´s missing (I´ve read a test of a games magazine and that was a little bit negative)
Speak with the team before a GT , say what you would like to see , stage win , win in a breakaway , for the General Classement and so on (also missing , before the season there should be also a “Speak with the team”)
Cups , put every race of 1 nation together and let that be a “Cup” , every french race is put in to the “Coupe de France” where the Top 10 – 20 or 50 Places are rated with Points for the Cup , when you won the Cup , you´ll get some money (good for little teams that can´t take part at foreign races , little teams like Roubaix Metropole aren´t racing so much in other countries than France)
A “After GT” report with the news that are interesting , who is the best newcomer (Neopro) , who is the best “New at the GT” , who has won which stage (from 1 to 21) , the standings Top 10 with a nice background (like the loading screens of PCM07 where the GTs had special loading screens) and also important the teams -> which team earned how many money
More scouting regions Japan is missing definetly , Skil-Shimano , when you would like to have a real team (Sign Dutch and Japanese riders) , it´s not possible because Japanese isn´t scoutable (could add China also for example)
“Own Trainingplans” I think that could be personalized , to every rider , a diffrent training plan , could be more “difficult” , like intervall training , TT training , power training , training on a standing bike (don´t know the english name) , I heard a lot of CM2s Training system that that was the best , maybe you can make a own training , in the manual (06) there stands -> MO +++ , ++ and + , maybe you could let the player make a own training program , like Mountain +++ , Downhill ++ and Hill + , the other things should be trainable too (like Downhill)
Better german commentary The german commentary.... I think the most people are wishing the german eurosport commentator “Karsten Migels” back , but when you won´t get him , maybe “Andreas Schulz” (also from Eurosport) could be asked because in the German Cycling Community he is very much liked (Andreas Schulz)
Hidden rider attributes so a new idea could come of
More manager attributes like Scouting (at every race you become some attributes of some riders so when you play a long time (2010) that would be hard to buy the best riders because first you must search the riders who are really good) also PR and some more attributes could come (maybe with my ideas Wink)
Press there could be a new feature that you tell the medias (maybe you could use the “Magazine after the Race” for that feature or the website or a my idea that follow that) which rider are take part at which race , which rider is the most promising , which rider is the best at Mountains , answer questions that are asked (“Which rider could come?” “Where do you see a potential”) , could be done something of that
Team Website The website will be the “Central” where everything of your team will be decided there , the rider talks , the press things , transfers and so on , I think it would be a “Ah!” effect when you are presenting a Website as the Central of the manager part work , you will get in to the Mail box through the Website where the latest news are standing (for example when you have signed a new rider “Ciolek will join Garmin-Chipotle next year!” and you can click the news where you see what the rider says (a great challenge , great honour to take part of the team) , what the manager says (very good rider , very promising rider) and maybe the length of the contract) , where the most interesting facts (like how many riders under 25 , how many season wins and so on) and a rider will be presented (with the stats)
The Website of the PR maybe the website thats already in the game could be made better with some ideas of the Team Website (interesting facts , 1 rider presented and so on) , where some interesting interviews are standing there (rider or team manager) etc.
The Picture in Picture feature was great of CM3 and CM4 , espacially at mountain stages and with the Bottles feature it would be better to have 2 diffrent cameras to have a better look at the race
Own Team a own team feature would be good because so it wouldn´t be so much work to change a whole team , deleting riders or overwriting riders and so on
ProTour , ProContinental and Continental Tour Rating , so with Roubaix you have to do 2 perfect seasons to be at the ProTour , with your great amount of the teams , that would be better to have 3 diffrent “leagues”
More interesting co-sponsor contract there should be sponsor preceedings , the Co-Sponsoring is at the moment , clicking Co-Sponsor , hoping that the Sponsor will take part at a team , should be more diffrenced , have a longer contract but less money and maybe the Co-Sponsor will add also 1 goal and when that goal is reached , the team will get 20.000€ for example
More actions like at CM2 , where was a great amount of actions like attack when a rider is attacking , when a favourite is attacking and so on
Maybe contracts with material manufacturer they should add a goal when thats reached , they will give money
Material bar material can get damaged , every rider should have a material bar , when a frame hasn´t got a bar anymore , the frame will break into 2 pieces for example
Diffrenced searching (I don´t know if it´s possible at PCM 08 , haven´t got it)
Take riders of a Tour before starting a stage maybe riders could get ill meanwhile a stage race
Espoirs Team , Teams should found a espoir team , so you are avoiding that 18 year old riders take part at great teams.. Would be a upgrade of the U23 feature this year
More Staffs , like “masseur” who improved the Regeneration in stage races
Materials , the Material thing could be improved , not buying thing X so you are allowed then to buy thing Z , I think that could be changed , every material should have also TT things , maybe more equal stats , there should be 3 possibilities , cheap , middle and expensive , it doesn´t makes sense to me to buy HED or ZIPP things (06) when I can have with Campagnolo or Mavic much better things in 1 manufacturer
Maybe a easier stage editor , I have a idea for a stage editor (easy stage editor) , there should be a profile and you click at a point there will be a mountain , also there should be “rounds” addable
More rider statistics like how many 1.1 races has won Rider X for example in his career , also 1.2 , 2.HC , 1.HC , ProTour and GT (because the GTs aren´t in the PT... :/)
More team goals , like “End the year with money (not minus)” after a manager used more money as he has , a small team should have also a goal add a mythical trainer into the team , End at least 5th in ProTour etc. or win 3 monuments of cycling
Help popups which explains a little bit , like at training when you are training sprint , the popup will say what Sprint will effect to the riders (training SP , ACC etc.)
Maybe more of the 07 PSP Version like the team choosing screen where you could see how good is a team at stage races for example
Unlockables , that will improve definetly the Long Time Playability (longer than 1 career playing for example) , at the PSP you could unlock old teams , why not at the PC version? I mean mustn´t playable at career but I think a stage race with old team would be funny (For example Team Bianchi 2003 , US Postal 2002 , Telekom 1996 or 1997 , Festina 1997 or 2000 etc. or the Teams of Anquetil , Poulidour , Eddy Merckx , Hinault , there would be a great amount of Team that could be unlocked (Saeco with Cipollini etc.)) , also that could be unlocked : riders for a “own team” feature , old stages (maybe 1997 Tour to Andorra Arcalis) or old jerseys (GC , Points , Mountain etc.) like the TDF GC Jersey with the Credit Lyonnais writing (2002 for example)
Cyclist Characteristic , I´ve got a idea of a Cyclist characteristic , I thought for example train leaders like Ongarato could lead a sprint train very well because of their experience their etc. so in the game they will become at the last 12 KM at a Flat stage a bonus at Flat (+1 or +2) because of their experience (so you are avoiding to give them very high stats they don´t deserve normally) , also Elbowing Sprinter like McEwen who are very dangerous because of their elbow work , is a sprinter left or right of him , he will let him behind but maybe he will causing a crash... When he causes a crash he will be last of the group
The potential of the riders at the players team should be visible with stars or wheels (8 wheels for the highest potential for example)
Maybe a Live-Ticker Mode as a 3rd possibilty to let a stage run
The Live-Ticker Mode should have :
The stage profile with a arrow , where the peloton and groups are
A great box where somethings like "Valverde attacks" stands (like in a ticker) and under that a "interaction" box where you can choose "Follow Valverde?" "Yes" or "No" , when "Yes" , "Who should go with Valverde?" (The 8 riders should be named , at the right , there should be a box there you can tick the riders in the group of Valverde so they can follow him) , also rider can fall , "Who should help "Klöden"?" and you can give the riders some orders (take water , take relay , attack , block and so on) , at a sprint stage there could be "There are 10 KM to go , would you like to create a sprint train or would you like that your rider take a other riders bike?" ("Sprint train" or "Other riders bike" , when you tick "sprint train" , you must name first 2-4 riders who leads the train , for example Milram , Lancaster , Velo , Ongarato and Zabel , "Who should take the last place for the win?" "Petacchi" , when you tick "other riders bike" there should be the best sprint riders listed who take part
TT shunts would bring more realism , I remember of Ullrichs TT shunt at Le Tour 2003 the Stage to Nantes
Actionelements , at PSP when you attack , you must fill a bar , at sprinting too (maybe with controlling the rider to use the slipstream) or when a rider has a flat tyre , maybe there must be filled also a bar to bring the rider fast back to the Peloton
Scenarios , the Track Feature is a good feature , maybe you can do a scenario feature where you are controlling 1 rider at a street race , I think for the first a scenario feature would be good , like you are Stephen Roche at the Stage of Le Tour 1987 to La Plagne or Jan Ullrich 2003 where he had won with a 1 Minute Gap to Armstrong (I think that was the TT to Gaillac) or Mario Cipollini or some other things
More national team events like U23 World Championships or the Olympic games , so there would be 6 events for the National Team (4 every year at least) , the Olympic games winner could have a golden helmet like Bettini had it
Rider uniques , could it be that to a jersey or helmet could be hanged on a rider name like qst_casque_bettini , so Bettini would have a golden helmet or lpr_maillot_diluca (or di_luca) so he would have the ProTour Champion Band (maybe could be as the info thing like the national champion bands)
Computer help , for beginners it would be good when there would be a Computer Help at a race who do the things and the player can lean back and watch what the AI is doing
A better Tutorial , they had a very good Tutorial , they showed a picture of the game (manager part) and wrote a text over the picture so the player (beginner) knows better of the screen
After a season a resumee picture of the ProTour , the teams with their ProTour points , the rider results , the nation results , the most wins etc.
Prologue I think it´s necessary to have really good Prologue results , I think Lancaster won 2005 Giro Prologue , but he isn´t a time trialist but he has 71 in TT , you are so avoiding to use TT or Sprint for a Prologue , with 1 Prologue stat you are avoiding many problems
Maybe street isles that is splitting the peloton or 2 roads thats also splitting the peloton
TT of PCM05 -> More riders that are shown in the Split Time
Pre-Race Tactics of CM2
Maybe Teambudget proceedings
Rider proceedings (proceed about the transfer fee etc.)
More rider retirements in a stage race maybe add illness in stage races or when riders (sprinters or bad mountain rider) can´t held in the time , they should leave the race
A office as a interface in the manager part
Maybe merchandising I mean at every team homepage , you can buy the team gear , I think that would bring a little bit realism to PCM
A notice block in the game
Most combative rider like at CM2
22 Teams in the Singleplayer Mode
Tiger jump (the thing the sprinters do at the last centimetres before the finish line , in Germany we call that cat jump , I don´t know the english word for that)
Maybe more injuries also very long injuries could affect the rider -> A sad remembering -> Joseba Belokis Shunt 2003 , after that he haven´t got any good races :/
Maybe a other winner ceremony , maybe some other cameras settings
Maybe the riders could have a little cycling computer on their bikes
The new animations (I think some are reproduced of the CM4 , but thats not bad because they were good) , at a crash a tyre could be bend or a bottle could fly of the helding , or when the rider drunk a bottle , they could throw the bottles so you see the bottles flying above the riders
I think you have the License for the Tour , could it be possible that you could add the Tour de France anthem at a winner ceremony? Maybe the anthem could be only listen when a rider of the team you control would win a stage , I think that would bring a goose bump effect
Maybe a “Birthday Feature” that will effect that a rider who has got his birthday won´t have a negative day form (but a better chance to have +4 for example) also maybe the rider picture could be build out , like -> writing somewhere the birthday of a rider in the game
(As you can see , I´ve send them to Cyanide , I´ve cutted that letter here a little bit (some stupid things left out and some other things that shouldn´t care here))
OMG what a lot of suggestions - most of them are really good!
I definitely like the enhanced media - it can get a bit annoying at times, but I like how there is much more interaction with media in f.ex. Football Manager - where players also respond to transfers and aspirations.
I don't know if individual rider talks is of much use - it was there in earlier games, but never really caught me on - might be too much micromanagement. Maybe if it was confined to the team leaders.
I certainly like the idea of putting out goals for a race and have morale rise, if goals are met. Could be a gamble with putting high goals (big reward if met, but damage if not met - and maybe some up/down in morale depending on whether the riders believe that it is possible or not). Secondary sponsors should also be able to add goals as part of the deal - would also make it more interesting in the negotiation, when you have to consider whether it is worth the xx a month if you have to do well in a race, you didn't plan on riding.
I've also just remembered one of the most annoying things to planning a season that I would like changed: Pre-assigning riders to races. That way, I can make a complete plan for each rider - maybe in a split-screen with the training schedule, so I can see how well the training fits with the season plans.
This will have these added benefits:
1) Magazine can list favourites for "Big Race" that are actually (probably) going to race it
2) I don't have to remember, who I have set for which race
3) Planning race days is so much easier
4) I don't put a rider on a training camp, when I have already set him as participating in a race at the same time.
5) If there is some sort of mark (the star, perhaps) on the favoured races, I can better plan for putting riders in races they really want to ride
I will of course reserve the right to change the pre-assignment at all times as well as make last-minute changes - but at least I won't have to remember the plan for ALL riders in ALL races, but can just make adjustments as the season progresses.
I'd also like a live updated rankings list during TT's (updated at intermediates of course) with stage rankings and "Virtual GC" during the stage. Only 3 riders/teams + individual times is rather annoying (Ok, Contador is 6th on the stage, but where is Valverde?)
However, I am really interested in others chiming in about the distance thing - throwing ideas up in the air and seeing which stick. I definitely think it takes away a lot the way it is now - but maybe the alternatives are worse? Let's explore.
Well, the funny thing is that the full scale stages thing has been tried in a cycling game before, EuroTour, which was released in 2001. You had the possibility of advancing very fast (x600 or something ), but then you wouldn't be able to follow the stage in 3D.
In general, it's a difficult to make a choice here. Personally, I'd prefer to being able to watch the entire stage, and I think the stages take enough time already. But like you, I can be annoyed by the fact that even a small gap can result in minutes of time loss.
I'd prefer the 1:1 scale combined with a very good, dynamic simulation function in 3D that you could modify to your needs from race to race, situation to situation.
EDIT: That could also manage to set your own riders to 'AI'-status, so you could just watch. Shouldn't be awfully difficult to make them act like everybody else in the peloton.
Edited by Silence on 10-03-2009 20:23
Le'Sheep: If life's a bitch use a knife to get over it.
I think it works fine the way it is. Perhaps they could adjust the parameters a bit, where you can easier get a distance in time on the flat and losing a little less time in the mountains, but that's merely configuration and in the worst case, you can even do it yourself in the XML-files. Still, that could use a fair bit of adjusting, to be honest. I also am not entirely happy with the time distances right now, since they seem pretty random and often turn out to be negatively for me; having a 15 seconds gain which I need to win the GC suddenly gets nullified due to it being a flat stage and when I think the 2 meters distance shouldn't be more than a few seconds more than once cost me the race.
What would be nice is perhaps a 'zoom' function, where you can simply expand the stage into a 1:1 version. That way you can see how things really look like, whereas the regular view is the one we see currently.
It's technically only a factorisation from distance, where they can keep the environment the same and only put proper distances between the riders. I don't even think they need to adjust the times. But since I don't have any insight in how the game works, I can't say this is either easy to achieve, or impossible to make. From my point of view it should be technically doable, but I lack knowledge to make any assumptions.
As for other suggestions, please note the other topic where we post our suggestions for the next version
), but then you wouldn't be able to follow the stage in 3D.
