I wish I could be as knowledgeble as some people here. Sometimes I notice someone having an opinion but not quite expanding on it maybe because they don't want to hurt others feelings or they don't want pay back posting. I've read some interesting stuff about doping, riders, tours and everything else. Even if it's a hot subject, why not expand it? I'm talking about how Lance only lost weight from the waist up and that only benefited him, how Contador is on a 10% reduction needle resulting performance and how everyone on the 100 m is on advanced doping and why there isn't black cyclists for real (their genetics suck for cycling?).
And that's why I'm going to create a website for everyone to develop their inner thoughts without any social restrictions. There won't be people trolling there and you can either choose to step out from the crowd (with a pic of you) or remain completely anonymous.
Any thing that was on your mind that you didn't say here or didn't develop or want to say you can post it as an article if that is your wish. It might be a good thing not to repress your opinions because you can share some interesting stuff with the world. This might need to be a limited selection and unfortunately not everyone is skilled on developing their thoughts into words.
What does everyone here think a good domain name would be for this?
Dan_Grr, I was gonna say you're free to discuss that stuff here. But then I saw this post
MrContador wrote:
Hey jerk! Stop saying that Contador is doped! You have no proof for it, so just shut up!
That proves that you can't. "MrContador"'s blind bias has just made him call you a jerk, tell you to shut up and say you have no proof of it, despite the fact that he has no idea what proof you may or may not have.
So, you're right. It can't be here because of close minded people such as him. So, in what concerns the title, I don't dislike the title of the thread.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
issoisso: There is no proof ever that Contador was doped. Im not blind, I know that he have been sanctioned for doping several times, but every single time he have been CLEARED! I know I shouldn't called him a jerk, but I got provoked. This guy have called Contador a doper in almost every single thread he have posted in.
edit: And he haven't said "I think he is doped", he have said that he "was"!
Edited by MrContador on 28-08-2008 14:42
MrContador wrote:
issoisso: There is no proof ever that Contador was doped. Im not blind, I know that he have been sanctioned for doping several times, but every single time he have been CLEARED! I know I shouldn't called him a jerk, but I got provoked. This guy have called Contador a doper in almost every single thread he have posted in.
Are you sure you want to have the "is Contador doped" discussion? It's your choice. I don't feel like it, but if you continue so will I, rest assured.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
I can gladly take the "is Contador doped" discussion with you, yes. Answer my questions:
1. What's the proof that Contador was doped?
2. Contador have been cleared for all sanctions, why do you still think he was/is doped?
3. Contador have never been in his own class. He didn't played with his competitors like Pantani and Armstrong did. Haven't Menchov and Evans been on his level?
Waghlon wrote:
Im not even going anywhere near this discussion that is about to follow.
"boom" is the word you're looking for (nuclear explosion, not lars)
me have to work. me come back with answer sometime around my mid-afternoon break. which be in around 65 mins, me think.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
I never posted before in the cycling board of this forum, but I did read discussions before.
Wat strikes me are all the speculations about doping, without any proof for it. I don't understand that? Why do you all do this? This way you destroy cycling, by always asking questions directly if you see a great show from somebody. Can someone explain why many of you are doing this? Do you love cycling actually? Let the tests do their work, and talk about doping only after positive results I say... And if someone gets cleared, like Contador, he is cleared. You don't get cleared for nothing these days. Of course I know there are always cyclists who use doping, maybe Contador does, who knows, but it does not make any sense to me to accuse cyclists before you have any proof.
MrContador wrote:
I can gladly take the "is Contador doped" discussion with you, yes. Answer my questions:
1. What's the proof that Contador was doped?
2. Contador have been cleared for all sanctions, why do you still think he was/is doped?
3. Contador have never been in his own class. He didn't played with his competitors like Pantani and Armstrong did. Haven't Menchov and Evans been on his level?
yihaa, a dopers discussion
1. There's no proof of Contador doping!
2. Contador have never been sanctioned, so he have never been cleared either
3. In TdF 2007 he was close to the level of Armstrong though (who by the way isn't a doper also, solid proof wise ). I'm sure Aquarius can give us the wattages? I'm not sure though, the world have ever seen a rider that young, putting out powers so high?
But anyway, one person comes into mind when speculating about Contador possible sbstance abuse:
2. Contador have never been sanctioned, so he have never been cleared either
Wrong! Contador was named in the Operacion Puerto case, and that's why he wasn't allowed to start Tour de France 2006. Later he got a letter that said he was cleared.
And you are speaking about Manolo Saiz: Contador was a good friend of Saiz, but it's many respectably guys who are friend with guys involved in doping cases.
But if Contador will be caught for doping in the future, then I will lie down and say "sorry, you were right guys!" Until that, Contador is not guilty, and people should stop call him a doper. Because he is not!
The spanish authorities have, through time, always argued in favor of the dopers, never convicted them despite all the evidence (THERE IS VIDEO OF SEVILLA DOPING AND THEY CLEARED HIM FOR GOD'S SAKE), so of course they would clear Contador as well. It's what they want, no matter how many blood bags marked "AC" are found.
CONI is doing it's own investigation in Italy and the germans are doing their own, but the spanish refuse to give them the blood bags for no reason at all.
That's jut the official story, of course. The reality is that they don't want to give the blood bags because otherwise CONI and the germans would simply have to do a DNA test to easily confirm in less than 48 hours that the blood bags marked "AC" are full of Alberto Contador's blood, the one marked "Valv(Piti)" are Valverde's (Piti is the name of Valverde's dog), the ones named "Urko" are Pereiro's (name of Pereiro's dog), just like it's been proven that "Birillo" bags are of Basso (you guessed it, it's the name of basso's dog), that the "JJ" bags are of Jorg Jaksche, that the JU bags (and a few others) are of Jan Ullrich, etc. etc. etc.
If they fail to withhold the evidence for longer and the evidence finds its way to Germany, Switzerland or Italy, rest assured all those and many more will be busted, including all the Liberty Seguros riders who haven't yet been busted (most of them have, Contador is one of the few who hasn't, but hey, if you want to believe everyone doped on that team except Alberto, be my guest)
The document that has "AC" on it is listed as document number 31. The UCI has confirmed over and over again that it never received document 31. The documents were labelled sequentially (evidence piece number 1, number 2, etc. until number 117), but a few in between are missing. 31 is one of them. The spanish guardia civil never gave them away.
Werner Franke says he has evidence of Contador doping. we'll see soon, I guess. January at the lates, this latest push by CONI to have the documents from spain should yield results, whatever those results may be. I'll bet the spanish will just refuse to turn over the evidence for no reason as they've done so far.
Franke bases his claim on documents he says are in his possession from the Spanish police's Operation Puerto inquiry into Eufemiano Fuentes, the doctor said to have masterminded doping programs for athletes.
"The name of this Mr Contador appears on several occasions on the court and police documents," Franke told German television station ZDF.
"All of this has been simply concealed and hidden under the carpet whilst the name Contador was erased from the list of suspicious riders," added Franke.
He says he has a detailed list of banned products used by Contador which appear in sworn statements following the raid on Fuentes' medical practice.
"He took insulin, HMG-Lepori, a hormone to stimulate the secretion of testosterone and also a product for asthma called TGN - in brief I have before my eyes a protocol for doping," he told ZDF.
"All of this has been covered up, at least in Spain," added Franke.
Here's an excerpt from one of the few documents german investigators have been able to get hold of. It's from a list of "training schedules". The same "training schedules" that Scarponi and Jaksche both admitted are in fact schedules for infusions of Hormones, blood, EPO, corticosteroids and other products:
En el documento 3 se observan marcados de distinta forma los nombres de los corredores: Dariuz BARANOWSKY; Josefa BELOKI; Ginpaolo CARUSO; Alberto CONTADOR; Allan DAVIS; David ETXEBARRÍA; Igor GONZÁLEZ DE GALDEANO; Roberto HERAS; Jorg JAKSCHE; Isidro NOZAL; Sergio PAULINHO; Nuno RIBEIRO; Luis León SÁNCHEZ; Michele SCARPONI; Marcos SERRANO y Ángel VICIOSO.
The second reference includes initials of riders’ name that appeared on another training document:
En el reverso del documento 31 se localizan unas anotaciones manuscritas con el título “INDIVIDUALIZACIÓN” en el que se identifican a distintos corredores del equipo LIBERTY-SEGUROS WÜRTH por sus iniciales: R. H. (Roberto HERAS), M. S. (Marcos SERRANO), J. B. (Joseba BELOKI), I. G. (Igor GONZÁLEZ), A. V. (Ángel VICIOSO), J. J. (Jorg JAKSCHE), A. D. (Alan DAVIS), L. (sin identificar), A. C. (Alberto CONTADOR) .
So, am I to assume that Contador is marked "AC" in this document but the blood bags are marked "AC" in reference to someone else?
Contador’s name was also heard in taped phone conversations of Fuentes, but authorities said his name appears only in reference to conversations about race results.
If I recall correctly, they were talking about the Giro and Volta a Catalunya in 2006. Pevenage said Ullrich was doing well, and won, and "another one of yours [Fuentes' clients] is second" [Gutierrez Cataluña]. They were then talking about Fuentes' clients, and the ones who were and weren't at the Volta a Catalunya. Fuentes mentioned some results by Contador. If he wasn't a client, why mention him?
Then there's his performances, that, as we've discussed at length (use the search function. look for "watts" ) are super-human. if you want to think that because he didn't crush Evans, etc. he isn't doped, that means you think that Evans, Menchov, etc. are clean. If that's the case, I have ocean-front land in Arkansas for you to buy. good quality, too!
THe part I find funny (literally) is that you mention armstrong, yet think his successor as Discovery leader is clean....especially given the conversation between Vaughters and Andreu, two former riders that details clinically the doping inside that team and especially given that JOHAN FUCKING BRUYNEEL is involved.
that's enough for now, I think.
Edited by issoisso on 28-08-2008 15:32
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
Technically he wasn't sanctioned. Liberty was denied to start. As an examble, Basso wasn't sanctioned untill a year later! Botero, also named in Puerto never been sanctioned, the same goes for Valverde. I'm not even sure Ullrich ever got sanctioned?
Saiz was more than a friend, according to me. Almost like a father. Besides, if you read Jaksches story, and believe just half of it, it's unlikely that anybody on Liberty at the time, wasn't juicing up!
...but your right, there's no reason to single Contador out and accuse him of doping.
Well, we will see. If Contador isn't caught until the end of 2009, will you then admit that he is clean? I can assure you that if Contador will get caught, I will hate him for the rest of my life, but until that, he is totally clean, no matter what other guys say.
But if the bags with AC on would have been Contador's, do you really think he would use AC as his sign? It's all over his site. If I was a doper, I wouldn't used a sign that will drag me closer in to that doping case. And I don't think Bruyneel is a cheater. I don't think Armstrong is a cheater and I don't think Contador is a cheater. Call me a ignorant jerk, but no matter what you say, I won't turn against Contador until he's caught.
MrContador wrote:
Well, we will see. If Contador isn't caught until the end of 2009, will you then admit that he is clean?
Of course not. it's extremely rare that anyone gets caught. You'd have to screw up majorly to be caught. The examples of riders who doped their entire career and then admitted to doping are literally hundreds.
Not to mention that the drugs that are in fashonable use right now, there is no way to test for them. Most drugs you can dope as much as you want and it is literally impossible for you to test positive since there is simply no test for them.
MrContador wrote:
But if the bags with AC on would have been Contador's, do you really think he would use AC as his sign? It's all over his site. If I was a doper, I wouldn't used a sign that will drag me closer in to that doping case. And I don't think Bruyneel is a cheater. I don't think Armstrong is a cheater and I don't think Contador is a cheater. Call me a ignorant jerk, but no matter what you say, I won't turn against Contador until he's caught.
be my guest. I've grown quite used to people ignoring all logic based on emotions.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
yihaa, a dopers discussion 
