What do you guys think of PCM 18? Is it any better than former versions? Or is it mostly the same?
''The thing I love about PCM is that no other game requires a guide where the sentence "Acceleration does not mean acceleration" is used.'' - cactus-jack
Im just gonna bump this thread, as I dont feel like making a new one.
After a couple months of the game being out, what are peoples thoughts on it?
My main concerns with buying the new game, are that in 17, basically every cobble race ended in a mass sprint, and mountain stages no one really attacked, you basically just paced up the mountain and waited for riders to drop. I've watched some gameplay videos of 2018 and it seems a lot better, as well as the new breakaway AI seems great.
My only other major concern is with Career mode. I've read a lot about rider progression being insanely fast/extreme this year, and I'm just wondering if its been fixed in a patch or if its fixable by editing the database? I know it has been discussed that editing STA Rider Progression can help, but I'd like to know how much does it actually help? Are riders still going to jump up + 3-4 pts at a time? Rider progression is probably one of the most important things to me, as I aim to play long career modes.
Also, in simulation in PCM 15, it seemed like if my riders were in decent form they basically won everything. Bob Jungels f.e won the Giro and Tour with 77 MO in simulation, and in general I basically just won everything, and Im hoping theres more of a challenge because I like to simulate chunks of the season, but I'd rather not unrealistically win everything.
I bought 17 and 15 both about 9 months ago, and after about 6 hours of playing 17 I went back to 15 as the gameplay was a lot more enjoyable for me, and I dont really want to make the same mistake I did with buying 17, so any responses are greatly appreciated.
In my opinion it's the best version yet. I was quite disappointed with pcm 16 and skipped on 17 as the gameplay was poor for the reasons that you stated and the fact that hilly classics did not work properly. Also the ai was atrocious on downhill finishes. The latter is still an issue, but is vastly improved.
I was planning on skipping pcm 18 too but after reading positive reviews on he forums I decided to buy ita nd I have been quite satisfied with the ai improvements so far.
Sprints are more enjoyable as they are closer and more varied with factors such as incline and wind and bends playing a bigger role on the outcome. The ai is more challenging and tend to start sprints later with diifferent riders starting a different times. Waiting with sprinting till very late (5-400m left) is now a viable option, whereas in earlier edititions in my experience you had to start sprinting much earlier and generally had fewer options.
On mountain stages there are many attacks and riders generally finish one by one or in small groups. I have yet to see a group of 10+ riders getting to the line at the same time on a big mountain finish. The gc leader will tend to ride defensively whilst the orther gc riders will attack at various points and sometimes be succesful.
Cobbled stages are also more realistic. Here are two screenshots from a one-off race of Vlanderen. I controlled Bora in both, but in the second I just let the ai control (on the pcmdaily light db):
There are plenty of attacks in the final and all riders seem to be out of energy come the end. When controlling Sagan, Terpstra attempted multiple times to attack away from me in the final kilometers, but Sagan was barely able to hang on and take the sprint with no yellow bar left.
As for progression there is no doubt that the current model is not ideal. The problem in my opinion, however, is not so much the speed of progression, but the structure. This post shows the levels at which attribute increases occur:https://pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread...st_1159527
With this model slowing down progression would in my opinion make for very dull game play as it would be monotone and steady growth across the board with all riders reaching high attributes only in their late 20s, which is far from realistic. Slow is understood as generally smaller increases at each level of progression and no possibility for 3-4 point increases in single attributes.
Most seem to prefer this, but it doesn't resemble reality at all. In real life there are many cases of extremely fast progression e.g. Bernal, Jakobsen and Pedersen. Such riders would be impossible wiith slower progression. Instead what would happen is that for every level of potential (1-8) there would be very defined intervals of attributese.g. a pot. 5 22 year old would be within a predictable and quite narrow range of attributes depending on his rider type.
I think the current model create quite varied and realistic progression since the progression at each level is randomised and can vary greatly both in single attributes increase and in total increase of attributes for each level. The problem, though, is how the level system works. 3-4 points increases in single stats is great as it varies progression and is not necessarily that beneficial as backup stats will be lacking in those cases, but the current system where these jumps happen overnight is idiotic.
To improve progression I think the distance (in experience points) between the levels should be slightly increased for lower levels (slowing progresion) and the increases should occur gradually between each level rather than in single jumps. The distance at higher levels should consequently be lowered slightly as they otherwise won't be reached. This is not problematic as growth at each level is much less at the high levels and with gradual increases it would still be less drastic at older ages than the current system even if levels are less spread out. The total attribute increase for a level up should stay around the same and could be dertimined at the trigger point for a level up (e.g. 4000 exp.),but the attributes increases should be averaged untill the next level.
For example say at 4000 exp. a rider gets an increase of 16 attribute points spread across the attributes according to his training plan and randomisation, but the increases happen spread out over the level instead of intantly. He may get 4 points imediately at 4000 points, 4 more at 4150, 4300 and last 4450, before he levels up again at 4600 and a new total increase is determined. This would naturally also have a slightly slowing effect on progression.
Another issue is that pcmdaily's attribute matrix is capped at 81 and the progression system is clearly not meant for a cap that low. I think the world db for example is better suited for this with higher starting stats. It would be a great tool for db makers if you could edit the level points. Then you could make an 81 cap work just fine by also editing the xmls.
The biggest issue with PCM 18 for me (apart from the generally limited management that is inherent to all editions of pcm) is the introduction of Team Index where promotions is largely deterimined not by the continental/CQ standings but by the average of a team's aingle best rider for the next season. I don't understand this change at all and wish they reverted to the promotion system of prior editions.
PCM 18 is greatly improved in gameplay, but career mode hasn't been changed particularly, and the Team Index is terrible in my opinion. Altogether I am happy with it as the ai upgrades makes it more enjoyable to play than any earlier edition I have played. Now I just hope they focus intensively on career mode for 2019 and improve the progression system or let players have more control over it.
Wow, thank you for such an in depth response! After reading your response, I have to say I will probably buy the game. My biggest concern was AI which seems to be better now in the videos and responses I've seen, and while I might not be a huge fan of the progression, its something I can probably get used to.
