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Le Tour de France
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Posted on 24-11-2024 04:27
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| niconico |
Posted on 15-06-2008 18:18
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So the Tour de Suisse thread doesn't get blown out of proportions, let's take our "Who is able to win Le Tour"-discussion to its right place.
To sum up my opinion:
Valverde and Cunego won't win.
And I think it'll be between Evans, Menchov and Sastre for the overall.
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| Ashton89 |
Posted on 15-06-2008 18:23
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Good idea .. 
Mouricio Soler for top 10 GC 
Menchov, Evans for the win .. Don't count out Valverde .. Not yet at least ..
Sastre could surprise but I don't think you can call him a favorite .. |
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| Setzel |
Posted on 15-06-2008 18:23
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Hmm let me think i will do like this
Sprints Hushovd Freire McEwen
KoM Gadret Soler Chavanel Dessel Popovich
White jersey Dekker Andy Lokvist Cunego if eligible.
GC Evans Menchov Sastre Cunego Kirchen Rogers Soler Moreau Sammy Sanchez Zubeldia Popovich Valv
They will be the main actors + or - depends on what TdF will give us major surprise major deception 
Edited by Setzel on 15-06-2008 18:23
Eating my daily Breakfast at 9 pm
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| niconico |
Posted on 15-06-2008 18:26
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Let the discussion commence yet again, because I rate Kirchen's chances to be as high as Valverde's and Cunego's. And just to sum up: I don't think neither of those will win it.
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| niconico |
Posted on 15-06-2008 18:31
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I just moved this from the Tour de Suisse discussion.
rovven7 wrote:
A_Schleck wrote:
rovven7 wrote:
Four years ago when he won The giro nobody said about Cunego that he's a classics ryder. Now you jump on to conclusions. They say this Cunego is that 2004 Cunego, and if you wanna decide it, just wait for the Tour de France. It's only his 3rd day of racing after the long break. You can't judge Cunego, Evans, Valverde and all this guys by this form. If you were, Lance wouldn't have won the tour 7 times in a row, Landis wouldn't been so good in 2006 Tour and so on.
And by the way, there's no way Frank Schleck is a better stage racer than Cunego. If there's a doubt about Cunego's statute, there isn't about Frank's. He is a Classic ryder. His brother, Andy, though, may be a better stage racer than Cunego. And just to remind you, 2004 Cunego couldn't TT, this one does, and it does pretty well. In the Vuelta a Pais Vasco TT, on the second section of the race, which was a flat one, gained time on Thomas Dekker, coming in third place just before the third section.
You're basing your arguments on Cunego being a better TTist than in 2004 on a very slim background. The fact that he gained on Dekker after the climb in the Basque Tour, can be due to many, many reasons, none of these reasons are that he is a better time trialist. I'm basing my opinion on how Cunego has been riding in the Giro after he won it and he has been riding like that ever since, so I don't see how he can suddenly come in and win Le Tour, it's just not going to happen. Believe you me.
That was just an argument. He did a couple of good Flat Time trails since then, including the 2006 TT when he only lost 3 seconds to Evans, for example.I'm not saying he's the best, i'm not saying he's the main favourite for this years Tour de France. I'm just saying that once you win a Grand Tour, it IS possible to do it again. Just wait the Tour. And, also, it's kinda funny to say he's a classic ryder when all he's got best is his recovery skill; he's one of the best in this category, alongside Samuel Sanchez. He got some good results in the classics because of his good sprint . He still has to prove that climbing skill that got him the nickname Il Piccolo Principe.
You're just plain wrong. Cunego isn't a classics rider because of his sprint. That just an ability he has to make him come through more frequently than a guy like Frank Schleck. Cunego's abilities as a classics rider is that he is so powerful on short, sharp climbs, but in the big mountains like you say, he hasn't proven he can win Le Tour. That's what I base my opinion on, and also the fact that guys like Evans and Menchov beats him easily in the time trials, while they can also gain time on him in the mountains.
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| Setzel |
Posted on 15-06-2008 18:32
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I was not talking about winning said main actors
About winningi have just 2 men Evans Menchov
Why 2 ?
Sastre weak tt he will be off 100% not in the podium
Valverde not consistent in the mo he will battle with Sastre to grab a 3 rd or 4 th position .
Zubeldie average rider in GT never shows himself always grabs a good place if he makes something good he will have a top 5 .
Frank Andy will come here to work for Sastre top 10 should make them happy like Popo too
Soler mountain rider like sastre top 5 !
Kirchen and Cunego classics riders who cannot attack on mountains just follow wheels and hope for a flat finish to sprint and win !
Rogers good in TT good in mountains but he lacks acceleration making him a target on the attacks he cannot follow wheels like kloden he relays and hopes he can make the ground lost like that.
Sammy Sanchez Downhill for him and will try to loose very little in mountains and TT
Other Favourites in my opinion will not make top 10 they are the men for top 10
Eating my daily Breakfast at 9 pm
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| rovven7 |
Posted on 15-06-2008 18:33
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I believe that, opposite to what he started his carrer as, Cunego has transformed from a pure climber to a strong climber, with good descend and sprint skill, and the capacity to limit his time trail loss to a maximum of two minutes in the whole Tour. His real problem is, i reckon, steep gradients. He won't find those in the Tour, and with a little bit of luck, he could get a very good result. I reserve the right to not counting him off the favourites list.  |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 15-06-2008 18:34
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for the sprint hunter has to be a possiblity after his excellent showing last year, also backing Soler for mountains and a top 10
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| Setzel |
Posted on 15-06-2008 18:36
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rovven7 wrote:
I believe that, opposite to what he started his carrer as, Cunego has transformed from a pure climber to a strong climber, with good descend and sprint skill, and the capacity to limit his time trail loss to a maximum of two minutes in the whole Tour. His real problem is, i reckon, steep gradients. He won't find those in the Tour, and with a little bit of luck, he could get a very good result. I reserve the right to not counting him off the favourites list.
He was never a pure climber 
He was really like Ricco great acceleration and good knowledge when to attack or when to grab the right wheel in mountains or hilly classics if you see when a mountain top finisher and it's flat and Cunego is there fron the last on the group always finish 1st ....
Eating my daily Breakfast at 9 pm
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| rovven7 |
Posted on 15-06-2008 18:39
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A_Schleck wrote:
I just moved this from the Tour de Suisse discussion.
rovven7 wrote:
A_Schleck wrote:
rovven7 wrote:
Four years ago when he won The giro nobody said about Cunego that he's a classics ryder. Now you jump on to conclusions. They say this Cunego is that 2004 Cunego, and if you wanna decide it, just wait for the Tour de France. It's only his 3rd day of racing after the long break. You can't judge Cunego, Evans, Valverde and all this guys by this form. If you were, Lance wouldn't have won the tour 7 times in a row, Landis wouldn't been so good in 2006 Tour and so on.
And by the way, there's no way Frank Schleck is a better stage racer than Cunego. If there's a doubt about Cunego's statute, there isn't about Frank's. He is a Classic ryder. His brother, Andy, though, may be a better stage racer than Cunego. And just to remind you, 2004 Cunego couldn't TT, this one does, and it does pretty well. In the Vuelta a Pais Vasco TT, on the second section of the race, which was a flat one, gained time on Thomas Dekker, coming in third place just before the third section.
You're basing your arguments on Cunego being a better TTist than in 2004 on a very slim background. The fact that he gained on Dekker after the climb in the Basque Tour, can be due to many, many reasons, none of these reasons are that he is a better time trialist. I'm basing my opinion on how Cunego has been riding in the Giro after he won it and he has been riding like that ever since, so I don't see how he can suddenly come in and win Le Tour, it's just not going to happen. Believe you me.
That was just an argument. He did a couple of good Flat Time trails since then, including the 2006 TT when he only lost 3 seconds to Evans, for example.I'm not saying he's the best, i'm not saying he's the main favourite for this years Tour de France. I'm just saying that once you win a Grand Tour, it IS possible to do it again. Just wait the Tour. And, also, it's kinda funny to say he's a classic ryder when all he's got best is his recovery skill; he's one of the best in this category, alongside Samuel Sanchez. He got some good results in the classics because of his good sprint . He still has to prove that climbing skill that got him the nickname Il Piccolo Principe.
You're just plain wrong. Cunego isn't a classics rider because of his sprint. That just an ability he has to make him come through more frequently than a guy like Frank Schleck. Cunego's abilities as a classics rider is that he is so powerful on short, sharp climbs, but in the big mountains like you say, he hasn't proven he can win Le Tour. That's what I base my opinion on, and also the fact that guys like Evans and Menchov beats him easily in the time trials, while they can also gain time on him in the mountains.
Oh my, as a Cunego fan, i'm glad you say that. But i'm afraid you're wrong. Cunego is as good on hills as he is on mountains. In some classics there just aren't long enough hills to shake him. He won the Amstel Gold Race because of his Sprint, he won Giro di Lombardia because of his sprint. He showed his climbing ability in Fleche Walonne, Liege-Bastogne-Liege (bad day), Vuelta a Pais Vasco |
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| rovven7 |
Posted on 15-06-2008 18:47
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setzel wrote:
rovven7 wrote:
I believe that, opposite to what he started his carrer as, Cunego has transformed from a pure climber to a strong climber, with good descend and sprint skill, and the capacity to limit his time trail loss to a maximum of two minutes in the whole Tour. His real problem is, i reckon, steep gradients. He won't find those in the Tour, and with a little bit of luck, he could get a very good result. I reserve the right to not counting him off the favourites list.
He was never a pure climber
He was really like Ricco great acceleration and good knowledge when to attack or when to grab the right wheel in mountains or hilly classics if you see when a mountain top finisher and it's flat and Cunego is there fron the last on the group always finish 1st ....
Oh ops:
I'm really sorry i missed our two Radu in the 2004 Giro, so i was only saying what various websites said about his style back then. |
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| samtheman |
Posted on 15-06-2008 18:50
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I think Sastre's chances aren't that small actually. At least not for a podium. Imo he is definitely one of the best in the mountains. He lacks a bit in the tts, but he's been working on them and has showed that he doesn't lose too much time in them anymore. He also has a very strong team around him.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 15-06-2008 19:14
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Cunego was never a top climber, nor will he ever be. he's perfect for the classics, though.
He won the 2004 Giro because everyone let him go and win gobs of time because no one believed he could hold it. But he did hold it because he was better than everyone thought and especially because the 2004 Giro was the easiest course you'll ever see in a Giro.
There were simply no mountains anywhere close to a finish. All the mountaintop finishes were either actually hills, or so "easy" that everyone would arrive together, and of course Cunego being the best sprinter would win.
The mountains were so easy that Sergey Mother****ing Gonchar came 2nd
Cunego is just like Bettini and RebellÃn, other than those two realised they were better suited to classics and would do nothing but attain decent GC places and stage wins, so they turned completely to the classics, and when you train one specialty, the others decay (look at Petacchi, before he started training as a sprinter he was a decent climber who couldn't sprint very well).
The difference is that Cunego just keeps at it, and thus eventually gets better places than RebellÃn and Bettini ever did, but he'll never win the Tour, he can forget about that.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 15-06-2008 19:15
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Sastre could blow this apart - mark my words
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 15-06-2008 19:32
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Sastre will never win. Has he ever proved that he has the ablities? No. |
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| Wyman |
Posted on 15-06-2008 19:32
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issoisso wrote:
Cunego was never a top climber, nor will he ever be. he's perfect for the classics, though.
He won the 2004 Giro because everyone let him go and win gobs of time because no one believed he could hold it. But he did hold it because he was better than everyone thought and especially because the 2004 Giro was the easiest course you'll ever see in a Giro.
There were simply no mountains anywhere close to a finish. All the mountaintop finishes were either actually hills, or so "easy" that everyone would arrive together, and of course Cunego being the best sprinter would win.
The mountains were so easy that Sergey Mother****ing Gonchar came 2nd
Cunego is just like Bettini and RebellÃn, other than those two realised they were better suited to classics and would do nothing but attain decent GC places and stage wins, so they turned completely to the classics, and when you train one specialty, the others decay (look at Petacchi, before he started training as a sprinter he was a decent climber who couldn't sprint very well).
The difference is that Cunego just keeps at it, and thus eventually gets better places than RebellÃn and Bettini ever did, but he'll never win the Tour, he can forget about that.
so what do you rekon he can achieve in the tour then? stage win maybe?
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| Wyman |
Posted on 15-06-2008 19:33
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CrueTrue wrote:
Sastre will never win. Has he ever proved that he has the ablities? No.
Like i said in a differnt post, if sastre wins the tour i will eat my shoe
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 15-06-2008 19:34
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CrueTrue wrote:
Sastre will never win. Has he ever proved that he has the ablities? No.
Did i say he would win CT? No.
It will be like 2006 on La Toussuire
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| niconico |
Posted on 15-06-2008 19:47
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CrueTrue wrote:
Sastre will never win. Has he ever proved that he has the ablities? No.
He has indeed shown he has the abilities. In the 2006 Tour he was the strongest of all the favourites in the mountains and he was racing against Evans and Menchov etc. Last year he beat Evans in La Vuelta. And the amount of time trial kilometres in last year's Vuelta compared to these of this year's Tour isn't all that different. And Sastre isn't rubbish in time trials, he is a decent time trialist. He will lose time on the time trials I give you that, and so he needs to get it back in the mountains. But he has gotten rid off Evans and Menchov on numerous occassions during his career. So I can't see why not?
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| Biathlon |
Posted on 15-06-2008 20:33
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Sastre is getting to old
Anyway anyone knows who will be captain for Saunier Duval in TdF |
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