|
set up train
|
| rontgen |
Posted on 13-05-2008 10:11
|
Domestique
Posts: 403
Joined: 13-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ok, I havve serious problems setting up trains, even on Easy with Milram.
It's really starting to get annoying. I've read most of the threads covering the subject.
This is my approach.
20 km - make sure all important riders are close to the lead of the peloton.
14 km - drink
12 km - set flat guy on short relay and effort 90%, set aggresive sprint mode on lead out guy and main sprinter. Set lead out guy to follow flat and sprinter to follow lead out.
8 km - put flat guy on .-> effort 99%
This is where it all falls to pieces, my flat guy does not move forward in the pack, but drops back.
What am I doing wrong?
Can anybody post a youtube clip or something? |
| |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 13-05-2008 10:21
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
from my personal experience, that happens every time, trains just don't work.
If the changes that cyanide said they've made to the gameplay for the new PCM work as advertised, then teammates upping the pace will be needed for the first time ever in preparation for a sprint, but there still won't be any decent lead-outs.
The only thing that sometimes works in this game is having a one-man leadout train: one good sprinter as lead-out.
That, or do as most sprinters do in real life and just hop on a random other sprinter's wheel
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
|
| |
|
|
| rontgen |
Posted on 13-05-2008 10:23
|
Domestique
Posts: 403
Joined: 13-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Loads of people say that they successfully sets up trains.
Are they all just ... lying? |
| |
|
|
| matt493 |
Posted on 13-05-2008 11:06
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3549
Joined: 01-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
I can do it. I set my worst sprinter ( but he still has to be a sprinter) and have him on the dot at 99. then i follow one by one so that my best sprinter is the best. Eventually all the goo sprinters will wind up on your train.
|
| |
|
|
| rodda |
Posted on 13-05-2008 11:19
|
Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2276
Joined: 17-08-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
i make a train using more method and it works but only when i lead out with really strong guys, ie hincapie, cancellara, wiggins. so on
|
| |
|
|
| jamsque |
Posted on 13-05-2008 11:22
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 28
Joined: 06-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Once you get the technique down and you have the riders you can consistently win flat stages with a good train. For the grand tours you really need three good (75+) sprinters and two good (75+) roleurs if you want to do it right, but in smaller races you can get away with one roleur and two sprinters. Here is how I do it with 5 guys (I have won the points jersey in every grand tour with this method):
X <- Your second best flat rider
X <- Your best flat rider
X <- Your third best sprinter
X <- Your second best sprinter
X <- Your best sprinter
20km - Set your 5 guys to 99% infinite relay, starting with your weakest roleur, then your strongest, then your three sprinters in order of ability. You may have to fiddle around a bit to get them in the right order.
15km - All eat. At this point you should have your 5 guys in the right order in the pace line at the front of the peloton.
12km - Set all your guys to follow the teammate in front of them, and have your weaker roleur (who should be at the front) follow someone in 3rd or 4th place in the pace line. You don't want to hit the front just yet.
9km - Set your first roleur to 99% and dot. He should start pulling slowly ahead of the group, but if he doesn't just have him follow whoever is at the front of the pace line.
6km - Set your second (strongest) roleur to 99% and dot, and let your first roleur drop down to 60% and cruise home. Someone with 75 or better in flat should have no trouble pulling ahead of the peloton.
3km - Start the sprint with your first (weakest) sprinter and let your roleur drop down to 60%. Make sure you have set all your sprinters to aggressive. Watch the sprint energy bars and trigger the next guy to sprint when the guy he is following is out of sprint energy. This usually means triggering your second sprinter at about 2km and your third at about 1km.
When I set this up right I have never failed to win a stage, and I usually get 1st and 2nd. Your riders don't need to be superstars, at the moment I am dominating the flat stages in the vuelta using this method with 71 and 76 roleurs and 76,78 and 78 sprinters.
Edited by jamsque on 13-05-2008 11:25
|
| |
|
|
| rjc_43 |
Posted on 13-05-2008 11:24
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
No, i most definately aren't lying when i've done it. But there are variables to consider.
First off, with just one lead out man you're not going to win. So don't even bother trying with just the one.
Secondly, the lead out man should have 85 fitness or more, and a some blue bar before starting. Before he starts to go 99% his heart rate shouldn't be above 165, otherwise he isn't going to go forwards.
Thirdly, for races a lead out should have a flat skill of (on hard setting):
1.2/2.2 - 68 or higher
1.1/2.2 - 70 or higher
1.HC/2.HC - 71 or higher
Pro Tour - 73 or higher
Grand Tour - 75 or higher
My sprint train consists of a flat man (with rubbish sprint), who at 10km out goes 99% effort (none of this 90%) to get to the front. In his wheel is a good sprinter, and in his is the best one. All on aggressive mode. The second guy in line probably had is on 80% effort, and the last guy doesnt matter.
If the lead out guy with 8km going still isn't going anywhere, then set him to follow one of the guys in the original peloton pace line, he won't have to fight for the wheel then. When he's got on his wheel (best if its 3rd in line) then reset him just to go on the dot.
At 2.5km out the first sprinter for you starts to sprint, at 1km or depending on when your first sprinter dies, the good one goes.
A lot of people, myself included, always have all the riders at the front all the race. Like in real life the top 20 riders are less likely to crash, get caught behind a crash, get dropped in a echelon, etc. THat way you don't have to waste any energy getting to the front.
To be honest though, I don't often have lead out men in races, unless the race is a flat one, or a grand tour. So i just hop on one of the top 3 favourites for the race, or the guy who won the last stage.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]  [/url] |
| |
|
|
| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 13-05-2008 11:25
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
rontgen wrote:
Loads of people say that they successfully sets up trains.
Are they all just ... lying?
I had same question once..and start training this, and also Milram with Petacchi it was..
I was succesful with 3 man train..
You can see one at Besseges first stage..
https://www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthr...owstart=40
I do it this way..butting best flat guy right away 90-99% dot command when follow sprinter sign appears. Then lead sprinter..follows..him..then main sprinter..
Waiting when riders back starts to sprint..then hitting lead out man to sprint..If main rivals coming near ..then main guy is off.
That was lot of practice with Milram..almost impossible with McEwen
Edited by Guido Mukk on 13-05-2008 11:28
|
| |
|
|
| jamsque |
Posted on 13-05-2008 11:42
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 28
Joined: 06-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
I think I have jinxed myself, right after I made that post I did another flat Vuelta stage and right after I started the sprint my first sprinter fell and my two guys following him went right down on top of him. |
| |
|
|
| Osmose |
Posted on 13-05-2008 12:26
|
Stagiare
Posts: 233
Joined: 11-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
i only use sprinters to make trains, with 12km to go, i set my worst sprinter in relay for 99% and put the others to follow(normally i use at least 2 sprinters before main sprinter)
when he gets to back of the train, i put him in effort with 99%
sometimes they seem to drop back, in those situations my main sprinter follows the one who won last time(or seems to be in shape)
but never give up on my original train because sometimes they get a "boost" and start going away from the bunch, when that happen the main sprinter goes back to the train
there isn't much technique really, sometimes you win, sometimes you don't(with freire i always win )
Nélson Évora, national hero!
|
| |
|
|
| Crommy |
Posted on 13-05-2008 12:31
|
World Champion
Posts: 10018
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
jamsque wrote:
I think I have jinxed myself, right after I made that post I did another flat Vuelta stage and right after I started the sprint my first sprinter fell and my two guys following him went right down on top of him.
That's awful when that happens - not just one sprinter goes, nope all 3 - and generally, the rest of the pack stays standing 
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-12-2024 08:01
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Deadpool |
Posted on 13-05-2008 13:06
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7357
Joined: 06-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
I normally just jump onto the (or one of the) best sprinter's wheel, and follow up to the point where I can try to jump around. The only time I have succesfully made a train was once with Silence-Lotto, and that involved making a Hoste, Fast Freddy, Robbie The Rocket train, and even then I was barely able to win. |
| |
|
|
| Osmose |
Posted on 13-05-2008 13:08
|
Stagiare
Posts: 233
Joined: 11-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Crommy wrote:
jamsque wrote:
I think I have jinxed myself, right after I made that post I did another flat Vuelta stage and right after I started the sprint my first sprinter fell and my two guys following him went right down on top of him.
That's awful when that happens - not just one sprinter goes, nope all 3 - and generally, the rest of the pack stays standing
i hate that, several times my whole team crash and nobody else, mostly in those races within cities
you can say is cheating, but just restart
Nélson Évora, national hero!
|
| |
|
|
| K-A |
Posted on 13-05-2008 13:15
|
Free Agent
Posts: 126
Joined: 17-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
IF you want to make sure that you are at the front when the sprint begins, here is my tip:
make your flat rider follow the guy who leads the peleton, your leadout-man to follow your flat guy, and the sprinter to follow the lead out man. With areound 6-7km left, you put your flat rider (who is currently following the leader of the peleton), to -> 99%..
That works for me |
| |
|
|
| KurtinSC |
Posted on 13-05-2008 13:42
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 997
Joined: 20-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Something that has worked for me... is the "attack" train.
Basically rather than go on the dot with 99%... I attack with my flat rider with 7-10 km to go. Sometimes I lead him out with another rider attacking and my best flat guy countering.
Then I put my sprinters to follow the attacker... for this to work they usually have to be on 99% effort. I usually have a leadout man and my primary sprinter. Note... this is FOLLOW... not COUNTER.
While I have trouble pulling away (or even keeping up) riding on the dot, the attack almost always gets my sprinters to the front. I generally only try it with very good flat riders (75+). Lesser guys have a tendency to go backwards when they attack.  ops:
Edited by KurtinSC on 13-05-2008 13:42
|
| |
|
|
| ladagnous |
Posted on 14-05-2008 23:10
|
Stagiare
Posts: 214
Joined: 21-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
that his a rather strange way to set up a train surely it tire out your sprinter a lot more than if you just follow |
| |
|
|
| rjc_43 |
Posted on 14-05-2008 23:18
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6716
Joined: 13-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
To be honest i've found with the game that if you follow the logical, realistic thing to do, if the cyclist is half good, and with good fitness, generally you can do it. I don't really think attacking to lead out is exactly realistic. If you don't have strong enough sprinters to lead out someone, just get your sprinter to follow another sprinter (ie like real life)!
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk] [/url] |
| |
|
|
| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 15-05-2008 08:38
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
Joined: 19-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
if you only have a few riders take your strongest rider and make him follow the front rider in the lead train till about 8-6km to go with your sprinter in his wheel.
then put him on the dot at 99% and make him sprint at 3km to go. then bring your sprinter round when you want
|
| |
|
|
| KurtinSC |
Posted on 15-05-2008 13:17
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 997
Joined: 20-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
ladagnous29 wrote:
that his a rather strange way to set up a train surely it tire out your sprinter a lot more than if you just follow
Not really. Again, it really only works with guys with a good flat rating. The flat guy leading out gets fatigued, but the guys following tire out the same as they would following a train.
If your attacker is good enough to get some space on the pelaton, then your leadout man pulls past at 3-2.5 km and your sprinter goes at 1.5-1 km, you end up getting a gap that the other sprinters have to make up with their sprint.
It's really the same principle as putting your leadout guy on the dot at 99 effort... just a different mechanism.
As for realism... I don't know. If a sprinter was alert when Cancellera tried one of his late attacks and got on his wheel... wouldn't he then be able to surge past in the final km's in the sprint? Couldn't it work if they did it on purpose... say for O'Grady?
It's not a magic bullet though... many times you just can't get away. I tried it with Burghardt (78 flat I think) leading out Greipel and Boassen Hagen in the Giro on my current career and didn't get a gap... so broke into a nearbye train and still won the sprint. It's just a method that can occasionally take the pelaton off guard.
I generally try different strategies anyway... it gets boring if you do the same thing every time. |
| |
|
|
| Deadpool |
Posted on 15-05-2008 13:21
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7357
Joined: 06-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Although I rarely form trains, what I do is send my flat rider to the front on relay and when he is around 3 riders off the front, I send the lead-out man, followed by the sprinter, up to my flat rider, and then set the flat rider on the dot at 99%, at around 1.5-2.5 km to go (depending on when the sprint started) I let my lead out-man go, and then move around at .5-1 km to go with my sprinter |
| |
|
