hello i performed several test about acceleration/resistence/endurance and recuperation and everything work but not recuperation.
I used 4 cyclist with every value 60 and 4 cyclist with every value 60 but recuperation 85
something like that: group 1= 60-60-60-60-60-60-...
and the second group 2= 60-60-60-60-60-85-....
In the giro d'Italia i used exactly the same high effort for everyone in 3 stages and all the raiders (rec 85 and rec 60) falled down in freshness down to ~25. At the start of 4th stage everyone had the same lvl of green/yellow and red bar.
So I performed 3 relaxed stages and everyone goes up in freshness up to about ~70 (no differences again between rec 60 and rec 85) In the next stage again the same lvl of green bar for everybody.
Where I sholuld appreciate the recuperation effects?
Edited by sobrano on 22-05-2015 14:13
Hmm interesting...
What you seem to miss here is that freshness also contains a random factor though.
The form was exactly the same for everyone as well?
Jesleyh wrote:
Hmm interesting...
What you seem to miss here is that freshness also contains a random factor though.
The form was exactly the same for everyone as well?
I dont think the freshness contain a random factor! its trend is very linear with energy spent in the previous stage.
Of cpourse the form was not exactly exactly the same because the efforts of raiders wasnt exactly exactly the same in the previous stage, btw something very very close maybe +/- 3 points and btw that was completely random for rec85 and rec60. I was hoping to see a +3 for rec85 and a -3 for rec60 but thats no matter, some 85 was +3 and the others -3 that was the same for rec60
i think with the inroduction of this complex freshness based recuperation system, cyanide disabled the recuperation value...
I would like that someone perform a similar test in order to share the results
Personally, even with the old system - I played PCM 2009 for years - I never felt recuperation made much of a difference. I sent plenty of riders with a value below 70 to Grand Tours and they seldomly had trouble. Sure, the lower the recuperation, the more likely that their freshness dropped, but there were always the rest days and flat stages (which I simulated and told riders to take easy) to help out. A rider with, say, MOU 80, TT 75, REC 65 would always perform way better than a rider with MOU 75, TT 75, REC 80.
Hi probably u didnt perform a specific test on recuperation in old system. I tested it from 2006 to 2011 and i appreciated a difference between a recuperation 60 and 85 after my test. That was translated in more green bar available for the 85 raiders in next stage. So something like the freshnes. Btw as u says the impact of recuperation on green bar was less then the freshness btw the recuperation effect were absolutely not negligable! Unlikely in my 2014 test i was not able to appreciate any difference...so is recuperation disabled or its effect is very very small? I hope someone of u in this community can help me with a test
U should to compare two mon 80 the first with rec 65 and the second recuperation 80. In this case i can confirm that in the last stages of the tour the recuperation give an advantage.
Of course a mon 80 vs an 75 is not comparable!
Edited by sobrano on 05-06-2015 08:02
No, no specific tests, just playing 24 seasons in one career. 60 recuperation is very low, I don't think I've taken somebody to a Grand Tour with that little. But 65 works just fine. I always considered the wage, too. A rider like the one mentioned - 75 MOU, 75 TT, 80 REC - would demand a high wage (I guess 50,000/month) which he can't justify. I'd get the same if not a better result with a rider 80 MOU, 65 TT, 65 REC and he'd demand less than 20,000/month.
Anyway, having played maybe 12 seasons with PCM 2014 I'm not sure recuperation doesn't work at all. I make season planning simple for myself, I have 9 riders who ride TdS, TdF, Vuelta, all with the same training schedule. And those with low recuperation do "suffer" a bit when there are several mountain stages in a row (less freshness, lower green bar). So maybe the method has changed, but the result seems to be the same, recuperation makes a difference, but it's nothing to worry about.
ur raiders had the same form, the same rythm and exactly the same daily form evry stage, and very important: each raider did exactly the same effort in all ur stages? if dont it is very very hard to appreciate a difference due only to recuperation value if u have many other variables that can affect the result...(form,daily form, effort during the stages, other characteristic values, rythm, etc...)
it should be interessant if u can confirm that with a "numeric" reliable test not "human sensation" based
No, nothing scientific from me. But everybody in my team is a free element, fighting for himself, I don't protect my leader or anything, I push all my climbers (7, 8 or even all 9 of them) uphill as hard as I can for results in mountaintop finishes and the GC. And I'm certain that the freshness differs on the next day after a tough mountain stage (or two or three mountain stages in a row), depending on recuperation. A single flat stage and everybody might be fresh again, certainly after a rest day.
So maybe you just stopped your test too soon. I've never seen anybody lose freshness after flat stages. But again, I remember the same thing from PCM 2009. Also, maybe the training level makes a difference?
Okay so here are the charts from a 21 day stage race (only ran 20 stages since I won't get this information if I complete the race). I kept all riders at essentially the same energy spent each race, and had the game set up to not have differences in daily form.
The riders on the team are the exact same (85 in all stats) except for 4 of them having 55 in recuperation.
The top two lines are Fitness (Form), the lower lines are freshness (Green/Yellow/Red bar available for stages). and the Green/Yellow shaded area is the amount of energy used by the rider on a stage. This is just me overlaying two riders, one with the 85 recup and one with 55.
The 9th rider on the team was used the same way but was asked to carry out the water fetching duties for the team in each stage, and actually did have slightly different energy usage.
Again this was a Grand Tour, I can't imagine any shorter tours really getting anything out of recuperation (also this is for PCM14).
(I inverted the colors for the 3rd picture accidentally)
Review notes:
Freshness shows basically no effect from recuperation.
Fitness clearly is affected.
However while fitness shows a clear effect, it was relatively minimal. For about half of the race, the 55 rate guys were at level 2 form while the 85s were at level 1 form, however this was only after putting all of the riders through absurd energy consumption. Recuperation will play almost no effect on GC riders as they will get protected for most of every stage, and will essentially get flat stages for recovery.
Recuperation will effect Sprinters, especially later in the races as they might still hold top form after the mountains which normally drain them of all stamina while riders with lower recuperation will suffer.
Edited by Kentaurus on 06-06-2015 05:58
Kentaurus wrote:
Okay so here are the charts from a 21 day stage race (only ran 20 stages since I won't get this information if I complete the race). I kept all riders at essentially the same energy spent each race, and had the game set up to not have differences in daily form.
The riders on the team are the exact same (85 in all stats) except for 4 of them having 55 in recuperation.
The top two lines are Fitness (Form), the lower lines are freshness (Green/Yellow/Red bar available for stages). and the Green/Yellow shaded area is the amount of energy used by the rider on a stage. This is just me overlaying two riders, one with the 85 recup and one with 55.
The 9th rider on the team was used the same way but was asked to carry out the water fetching duties for the team in each stage, and actually did have slightly different energy usage.
Again this was a Grand Tour, I can't imagine any shorter tours really getting anything out of recuperation (also this is for PCM14).
(I inverted the colors for the 3rd picture accidentally)
Review notes:
Freshness shows basically no effect from recuperation.
Fitness clearly is affected.
However while fitness shows a clear effect, it was relatively minimal. For about half of the race, the 55 rate guys were at level 2 form while the 85s were at level 1 form, however this was only after putting all of the riders through absurd energy consumption. Recuperation will play almost no effect on GC riders as they will get protected for most of every stage, and will essentially get flat stages for recovery.
Recuperation will effect Sprinters, especially later in the races as they might still hold top form after the mountains which normally drain them of all stamina while riders with lower recuperation will suffer.
good ur test match mine i didnt post the pictures but i have something like that,
btw in my test the difference between rec 85 and rec 55 is a little larger.
the differences between my test and urs is I used riders with all 66 instead 85. I played extreme mode and I used much more energy each stage in order to put in evidence the recuperation effect.
So in my test recuperation have a larger impact but during a normal carrer u dont use the same ammount of energy as in my test so ur test is closer to a real carrer.
ty
