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Astana Out of Tour
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| chuckie |
Posted on 14-02-2008 14:00
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Breakaway Specialist
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Their out of the tour.
Astana's history of doping scandals has resulted in their exclusion. 
Good move for cycling??
Edited by chuckie on 14-02-2008 14:01
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| Halvor |
Posted on 14-02-2008 14:02
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Sprinter
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I read it yesterday, now it's better chance for Sastre to win!
Probably I don't like it, the cycling sport is nearly dead! |
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| niconico |
Posted on 14-02-2008 14:19
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Good move for cycling, not for Astana obviously as I believe they won't exist at the end of the season if ASO excludes them from all their races.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 22:48
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| Macquet |
Posted on 14-02-2008 14:30
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Domestique
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I know my opinion as an American is not valued as much but I think that it is a huge mistake to exclude a strong team from the Tour b/c of the mistakes of the previous managers and riders....when you allow teams that have not tried to change their image to race...seems a bit hypocritical, that being said the riders who planned on riding the tour are going to change their schedules and crush the minor races they are allowed to ride in, so it is really bad for the fringe teams and continental and pro-cont. teams. |
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| chuckie |
Posted on 14-02-2008 14:34
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Breakaway Specialist
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The one I feel sorry for is Kloden!!
I really bet he regrets moving to Astana!!:x |
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| Halvor |
Posted on 14-02-2008 14:37
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Sprinter
Posts: 1951
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yes, kløden is always in the wrong team! 2006 tour, 2007 tour and now.... |
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| niconico |
Posted on 14-02-2008 14:41
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Macquet wrote:
I know my opinion as an American is not valued as much but I think that it is a huge mistake to exclude a strong team from the Tour b/c of the mistakes of the previous managers and riders....when you allow teams that have not tried to change their image to race...seems a bit hypocritical, that being said the riders who planned on riding the tour are going to change their schedules and crush the minor races they are allowed to ride in, so it is really bad for the fringe teams and continental and pro-cont. teams.
Sure but the fact still remains that they were kicked out of the Tour de France last year. And when the 07 Winner of the race decides to join this team, which have been kicked out, he sends a very very concerning message and he doesn't clear his name in any way.
For once I can say, Good job ASO!
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| Macquet |
Posted on 14-02-2008 16:54
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A_Schleck wrote:
Sure but the fact still remains that they were kicked out of the Tour de France last year. And when the 07 Winner of the race decides to join this team, which have been kicked out, he sends a very very concerning message and he doesn't clear his name in any way.
For once I can say, Good job ASO!
But this for all purposes is a whole new team, just with the same main sponsor, they are starting from the ground up, (new bikes, new wheels, new gear) so to not invite them b/c they are unproven is one thing but to not invite them b/c the previous team was dirty is another thing. |
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| Macquet |
Posted on 14-02-2008 17:01
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The fact that many of the posters on the forum are anti-american and believe that the only way an american can win is to dope also has alot to do with your happiness that Astana is left out (b/c in your mind it is really just Discovery with new dressings).
I don't think the same would be true if CSC was left out and considering their manager admitted to doping when he was a cyclist, it is more reasonable to believe that they are dirty, rather than claiming riders are dirty b/c you don't like the country they come from.
Get over it, lance won 7 in a row because he was better than everyone else and worked harder and until you show me the needle going into his butt I'll hold to my opinion. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 14-02-2008 17:18
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Tour de France Champion
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Macquet wrote:
The fact that many of the posters on the forum are anti-american
Macquet wrote:
I know my opinion as an American is not valued as much
sigh...
why do so many americans share this ridiculous idea?
You'll find all these same forum members very happy whenever Slipstream wins something, so no. There's nothing to that argument.
Macquet wrote:
I don't think the same would be true if CSC was left out and considering their manager admitted to doping when he was a cyclist, it is more reasonable to believe that they are dirty, rather than claiming riders are dirty b/c you don't like the country they come from.
List the times anyone here said CSC isn't a pack of dopers. Should take you about zero seconds to list them all.
Edited by issoisso on 14-02-2008 17:25
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Macquet |
Posted on 14-02-2008 17:25
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fair enough, saying my opinion is not valued as much as an american, is just a response to posts on other cycling forums, and the responses I got.....
"you can't know about cycling, you're just an American go back to baseball" etc...
Not to say that everyone is anti-american, that was a little to rough I suppose, you'll have to forgive me, I am just a little annoyed that as a cycling fan, I won't see all the best riders at what is supposed to be the best race.
Edited by Macquet on 14-02-2008 17:31
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 14-02-2008 18:02
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Tour de France Champion
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Mazzoleni
Kessler
Vino
Kasechkin
isnt that more then enough to not invite that team.. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 14-02-2008 18:12
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Tour de France Champion
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Macquet wrote:
"you can't know about cycling, you're just an American go back to baseball" etc...
those people are usually called "idiots". They were invented somewhere around the time language was first invented. Efforts have been ongoing to make said idiots obsolete, however newer and newer versions of them just keep popping up 
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 14-02-2008 18:17
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Tour de France Champion
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issoisso wrote:
Macquet wrote:
"you can't know about cycling, you're just an American go back to baseball" etc...
those people are usually called "idiots". They were invented somewhere around the time language was first invented. Efforts have been ongoing to make said idiots obsolete, however newer and newer versions of them just keep popping up
you right about that..they are "idiots"..so Macquet has cycling fan..keep it coming. You are 100% correct to say ..what ever you think. |
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| ABridgeTooFar |
Posted on 14-02-2008 18:29
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My question is this: will the winner of the 2008 Tour feel like a true champion? How do you consider yourself the best if you did not compete against the best? |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 14-02-2008 18:33
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Tour de France Champion
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ABridgeTooFar wrote:
How do you consider yourself the best if you did not compete against the best?
Ask Contador
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 14-02-2008 18:40
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
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issoisso wrote:
ABridgeTooFar wrote:
How do you consider yourself the best if you did not compete against the best?
Ask Contador
 ..geart answer..also can add..and ask Pereiro |
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 14-02-2008 18:55
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Team Leader
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To be honest leaving astana out of the tour is good on two counts, we may get to see a relatively clean tour, with just the one of two silly old fools getting caught for doping, and we may get to see some new faces doing well, like we saw Gerdemann this year etc. Brilliant i think. Plus i dislike the new discovery kit... i could always tell it was going downhill when they started adding green... now its gone off B)
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]  [/url] |
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| Crommy |
Posted on 14-02-2008 21:07
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World Champion
Posts: 10018
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ABridgeTooFar wrote:
My question is this: will the winner of the 2008 Tour feel like a true champion? How do you consider yourself the best if you did not compete against the best?
Are they the best if they dope? Doping is banned as firstly, it harms athletes, and secondly, it makes sure that it is not a question of who can dope the best, but who can train the best, who has the best physique. So banning doped riders is a good thing. I know that wasn't actually the point you were making, but I just want to have a go at Contador - he is implicated in Puerto, so if it is followed up, he will be proven to be banned.
But I maintain that riders should be innocent until proven guilty. Unfortunately, when you decide to go to a team that is notorious for doping, everybody starts thinking you must be doped. But until riders under the new regime are caught, I feel that if the cycling world is to survive and not become a witch hunt with false accusations, then Astana must be allowed to ride. But they should have no warning - 1 dope, and they should be out.
@ Macquet - just direct people who say that to go here: https://www.darwinawards.com/
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| matt493 |
Posted on 14-02-2008 21:10
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Classics Specialist
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I think this isn't fair for the people who haven't doped. I still believe that Kloden,Lepheimer, and Contador haven't doped and to take away Contador's chance to defend his title is wrong. Leipheimer isn't that young anymore and he won't have many more chances to win the tour. |
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