As promised here is my effort at creating xml files for the most recent DB.
To instal them simply copy them into the YoungRider Carac folder found
here, or somewhere similar if you use Steam.
C:\Program Files (x86)\Cyanide\Pro Cycling Manager - Season 2013\Xml\YoungRiderCarac
Be sure to create a folder to backup the existing files before you put these ones into the folder, you don't want to overwrite anything in case you prefer the other set(s).
There adjusted a little after the testing I posted below.
I have adjusted the ratios in the STA_region table of my own DB to allow a few more riders with potentials 4-8 to be produced, though it's not hugely different. I suspect it's necessary to make some adjustment but that is something people need to do on their own game (or that could be included in the next DB if a better table is created), it's not part of my download link.
Edited by Oglalakev on 06-03-2014 15:42
Jesleyh wrote:
I suppose I should test this one as well.
Would be welcome but I know you've been testing Kent's, simming seasons is a boring job.
One thing I have toyed with was a way to get genuinely strong Fighter stats into the game. In the BaseCaracs section, I worked only with ranks 0-6 for normal stats and turned rank 7 into a higher level stat generator, it gets used only for Baroudeur and in some cases potentially downhill as well, though mainly at low frequencies. It was the only way I could see for getting a level 85 fighter into the game. It was a bit of a pain as having an 8th level to work with would really help in setting up the other stats.
It's possible high fighter stats will be too frequent, but that can be adjusted downwards.
Well in an effort to see whether my XML files were any good I have repeated Jesleyh's review of Kent's, using the same format for comparison. I took over a team (Jelly Belly) and simmed the game through to the start of 2020. I recruited only pre-existing riders, being careful to avoid all regens,
First the Real Riders i.e. the top rated riders in the game in 2020
Spoiler
A quick glance says this is much the same as Kent's produced, some small differences which should occur anyway. One major thing to point out though is the presence of Simon Scheerders, a regen who is one of the best riders in the game in 2020, having won his first TdF in 2019. He is 27 and clearly a terrific talent. I was a little concerned when I saw a regen in this list.
For the rest I would rather let others look, compare this to Kent's and also to what they think it should look like, then comment upon it. If they want to that is.
Fl
Spoiler
Mo
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Hi
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TT
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Cob
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Spr
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DH
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Any feedback would be appreciated, positive or negative. I personally think both sets of XMLs are producing good results, which is good.
As well as doing the direct comparison to Jesleyh's work I wanted to look at the regens in a different way.
When I created my XML's I wanted to see if I could replicate the sort of riders who were in the DB at the start, to try and make sure the regens would be as real as possible. So when I was setting the limits for the various rider types, I used the stats of the best riders of those rider types from the Daily DB as a guideline.
So in this post I am going to post pics of the best starting riders and then my 2020 regens for all 7 rider specialisations. Well I say my regens but as it is sorted to be the best riders under 28, well some aren't regens, but as cycling fans it won't be hard to spot those ones
Fighter
Starting riders
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Regens
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A disappointing group if I am honest, the starting Fighters include some terrific all-round talents, yet the regens are distinctly lacking in this respect, I know from looking at the XMLs that higher Hill and Acc should have been more common. My theory is that those riders who started as talented Flat type riders have developed into other specialsations, primarily Puncher. But that is just a theory, I wasn't looking at riders as I simmed, looking to keep my opinions as blank as possible. If the other Specialisations were as devoid of talent then I would worry, but they aren't which lends credence to my theory
Climber
Starting riders
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Regens
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A much better group with several strong regen climbers and some variation amongst the support stats. I was a little concerned about the maximum values but looking at the top few in the editor none that I checked have a max value of 80+. Instead they are all at or close to their peak.
I was a bit alarmed at Matteo Simeone's stats but looking at his limits he can gain 3 more points in both Spr and Mo and I think he started as a Puncher regen.
Puncher
Starting riders
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Regens
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A decent variety amongst the puncher regens, though also a fair number of real riders in this group. Probably a few too many low looking Mo stats and I expected a few more all-round talents, but some genuine talent in the group
Stage
Starting riders
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Regens
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This group is headlined by a potential 8 rider who came into the game early, but there are some other very good climbers in there. TT and Sta look low but just checking a couple of riders shows that they have more room to grow in those stats than they do in Mo.
TT
Starting riders
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Regens
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Not the strongest group of regens, most of the top riders are real people, of the regens there are a handful of good TTists, and one of them, Jelte Vink, who will finish with 82 TT. I expected to see a little more all-round talent, though I had reduced the odds of that sort of result in my final edit of the XML's. There is a bit of a disconnect between TT and PRL for a few but most seem to have similar values for both. TT specialists are less common than some amongst the regens anyway.
NC
Starting riders
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Regens
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The least common type of regen and it shows, however I am pleased to see a handful of good talents developing.
Sprinter
Starting riders
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Regens
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Overall there are no top level sprinter regens yet, though a couple of these can reach a Spr of 80. I worry a little about the versatility, I'd like to see a little more variety from the support stats.
My overall impression is that they work relatively well but they certainly aren't perfect. I am worried about the lack of all-round talents, I think I have been to harsh when lowering the odds for those. I am also worried about the number of talented regens. These were made with the STA_region table from the Daily DB but I would rather alter the frequencies a little to have a few more young talents coming into the game.
This post is based only on the screenshots compared to the real riders, I'm yet to look at them and Kent's side by side.
I don't mind seeing the Stage racers with a slightly low TT stat, in fact I'd actually prefer it, though some of them do look a little too low.
The Flat stat of TT specialists seems a little low in general, though there are some cases that seem to fit well. In the real riders it seems to be a max of 3 points lower then TT but the regens are seeing a gap of double that if not more in some cases (Astrom)
The climbers could end up with slightly higher Monutain limits. You mentioned that none are 80+ but with the like of Contador, JRod and Valverde at 80+ it should be possible but fairly rare. that said discounting those 3 they do match up well so it could be a case of leaving that for potential 8's and slightly upping the chance of a pot 8 climber appearing.
As you said the Sprinter's aren't quite matching up yet, whereas other specialities are which to me suggests they might take longer to develop and could possibly have a small boost to their starting stats to compensate. Also there doesn't seem to be anyone coming through in the Meersman/Degenkolb type role of sprinters that can get over the hills. Pibernek, Petauskas and Nowak all look like they could develop into that role but aren't quite strong enough yet.
In terms of cobblers there doesn't appear to be anyone coming through with quite the same strength as Boonen/Cancellara, at least not in terms of all round ability. Mees, Fortier and Onderdonk are starting to get to a similar level but they seem a little too one dimensional. Most real ones either seem to be decent TT men or the sort of guys youd put third in a leadout train or use as leadout's for the second tier sprinters but it doesn't look like the regens are developing quite the same way.
Yes I was annoyed that the riders were quite one dimensional, I will have another look at them tomorrow in the editor bit it wasn't my original intention to have them come out that way. My final edit toned down the all-round talents a little too well it seems
As I mentioned when posting the pics, I was disappointed at the lack of all-round skill sets on display, it's certainly possible to have more variety with the XML's but it seems I lowered the chance too much, which is fixable but frustrating.
sammyt93 wrote:
The Flat stat of TT specialists seems a little low in general, though there are some cases that seem to fit well. In the real riders it seems to be a max of 3 points lower then TT but the regens are seeing a gap of double that if not more in some cases (Astrom)
Bear in mind that the real riders are all good talents but the regens may not be that good, and it's important that it's possible that some stats that let them down, however you would hope the better talents will avoid that pitfall.
Looking at Astrom in the editor he is actually going to be much better than he currently is an also illustrates one of the problems with the game. He is a potential 6 TT rider, 24 years old and now into his 3rd season, yet he has never had a contract with a team, going unsigned throughout.
Here are his Max potentials in some of the stats
FL = 76
Mo = 71
TT = 78
PRL = 72
STA = 72
He is weaker elsewhere (Hill=67, Cob=65),still a potentially solid rider, but his development has been stunted because nobody has picked him up.
Using the editor to look at the top TT regens in general, Sta and Fl do look a little low, many working out in the 70-73 range. But there are a couple who could develop interestingly into multi-discipline riders, Jelte Vink (2 above Astrom) can reach 82 in TT and 75 in Cob
The climbers could end up with slightly higher Monutain limits. You mentioned that none are 80+ but with the like of Contador, JRod and Valverde at 80+ it should be possible but fairly rare. that said discounting those 3 they do match up well so it could be a case of leaving that for potential 8's and slightly upping the chance of a pot 8 climber appearing.
It's not directly possible to increase the number of potential 8 climbers appearing, it works for all specialisations, though you could bump it for Colombia where there is a very high chance of any given regen being a climber.
However I wouldn't want to do that as potential 7 climbers can exceed 80 as well, rarely but it does happen.
In that 2020 saved game there were 8 regens with a max potential Mo stat of 80 or above, either climbers or stage racers. Two of the eight were unsigned, and another had Mo=68 currently. Only two were potential 8 riders.
As you said the Sprinter's aren't quite matching up yet, whereas other specialities are which to me suggests they might take longer to develop and could possibly have a small boost to their starting stats to compensate. Also there doesn't seem to be anyone coming through in the Meersman/Degenkolb type role of sprinters that can get over the hills. Pibernek, Petauskas and Nowak all look like they could develop into that role but aren't quite strong enough yet.
The lack of top regen sprinters was surprising, I know that in the XMLs a potential 7 sprinter should start with similar Spr/Acc stats as a pot 7 climber does in Mo. Looking in the editor shows that there are 9 regens with a max potential sprint of 78 or above, though only two can reach 80. At first I thought that perhaps the lack of developed regen sprinters was a result of them entering the game late, but a few are entering their 4th seasons.
There are a couple who can reach 70+ in hill, Petrauskas and an unsigned 22 year old Estonian called Kalda who's stats aren't great right now.
In terms of cobblers there doesn't appear to be anyone coming through with quite the same strength as Boonen/Cancellara, at least not in terms of all round ability. Mees, Fortier and Onderdonk are starting to get to a similar level but they seem a little too one dimensional. Most real ones either seem to be decent TT men or the sort of guys youd put third in a leadout train or use as leadout's for the second tier sprinters but it doesn't look like the regens are developing quite the same way.
Again the cobbles riders clearly suffered when I cut down on the potential for all-round talents, there are a few with good potential in Hill and one good TT, but by and large they are functional NC riders but limited elsewhere. Much of this comes from the fact that most are potential 6 and 5 riders, there are few rare talents.
Overall there are definite issues with the XML's, some rider types have weaknesses in important stats and there is an overall lack of variety amongst the riders.
The bigger issue though is the wastefulness of the game, too many talented regens go unsigned by the cpu teams, the scouting is limited so that many regions are missed altogether, and then the scouting is also inefficient, picking bad riders over good. Once signed they don't always develop well either.
That's why I keep advocating changing the STA-region table, to improve production of potential 4, 5, 6 and 7 riders. The game is wasteful so we need a greater influx of talent to ensure enough of it comes good.
Another thing I keep asking is whether it is possible to alter the age of decline that gets assigned to regens, some get 28 or 29 and it is just too young.
They are pretty rough and ready changes designed to combat the failings of the regens produced using the previous ones. I don't have time for a more detailed overhaul however and will be busy for the next few days.
I think they are good enough to go with for now but hopefully Kent's next set really hit the mark and no more fiddling will be required.
I'm working on it, also working on combining changes to STA_region though. Which requires even more testing. I'm trying to get a testable set out today though.
