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Hillarious AI Tactics
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| BritPCMFan |
Posted on 20-09-2013 13:52
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Stagiare
Posts: 245
Joined: 03-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Now, I've got to be honest, generally the AI seems pretty ok. The new tooltips on leaders generally explain things pretty well.
However, when it goes wrong, it goes really wrong. What's your best "what the hell are they doing" moment.
Right now, I'm playing a TdF game (the variant tour not 2013) with a custom start list. Its the usual teamlist, with each team taking thier strongest team minus the really insane guys so no Froome, Nibbles, Contador Valverde or Purito. I'm running as Moviestar.
Quintana took yellow on the Ventoux TT. Next stage normal sprint stage. Then it first of 3 days in the mountains. I don't really want to pull all day, so I get Amador and Costa up the front early so I can try to get them in break.
Ullisi and other good riders go, so I get Costa to follow. His 21 minutes down on GC, the other guys in the break are 37 at best. 7 riders, most very good.
So, I look back at the pack, I have a guy also in 7th 2mins down on GC (Intxuasti) but between is Spilak, Wiggins, Hesjedal, Evans and VdB,
Ryder has Danielson in the break, so far enough. Everyone else doesnt. They all are leaving the work to a favourite. Even Spilak.
So, unless they get themselves together soon, Costa is going to be leading the TdF by about 20minutes at this rate. |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 20-09-2013 13:56
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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Two things from the top of my head:
Valverde (who lost time in a crash) wins the double Alpe stage from a break the exact moment the peloton starts the climb 
In the TdF, whenever there's a break ahead when the intermediate sprint comes up, the best sprinters are led out in the peloton.
But if there's noone ahead, suddenly none of those seems to give a fuck.
So it's worth sprinting for the remaining 6 or 7 points, but as soon as there are 20 points to gain... 
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 20-09-2013 14:02
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Giro 2014 peloton let Van Garderen from my team to win stage 4 by 30 minutes (solo break), he lead by 15 minutes after the stage and won the giro, happened on extreme |
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| MartijnVDD |
Posted on 20-09-2013 16:34
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 801
Joined: 26-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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cio93 wrote:
In the TdF, whenever there's a break ahead when the intermediate sprint comes up, the best sprinters are led out in the peloton.
But if there's noone ahead, suddenly none of those seems to give a fuck.
So it's worth sprinting for the remaining 6 or 7 points, but as soon as there are 20 points to gain...
The intermediate sprints are funny indeed.
There usually are four lead out trains riding next to each other with the first riders at the exact same height. None of them is trying to get in front. As soon as there's 1,5km left, the sprinter starts sprinting while there's still two men of their train in front of them. Their leadouts don't even lead them out, they're usually just blocking their own sprinter. It's very ridiculous.
Also, the AI often lets only three guys get in the early breakaway, regardless of strength or GC. As soon as a fourth guy attacks, they somehow manage to reel him in without even loosing energy. At one point, I let Flecha attack until he had a gap and then dot at 99. He didn't even manage to stay ahead of De Clercq who's like 10 points worse in flat. Flecha showed the "out of red bar" animation, while De Clercq didn't. And of course, De Clercq has less ACC than Flecha as well.
Gotta love PCM logics...
Edited by MartijnVDD on 20-09-2013 16:35
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| cio93 |
Posted on 20-09-2013 16:39
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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MartijnVDD wrote:
cio93 wrote:
In the TdF, whenever there's a break ahead when the intermediate sprint comes up, the best sprinters are led out in the peloton.
But if there's noone ahead, suddenly none of those seems to give a fuck.
So it's worth sprinting for the remaining 6 or 7 points, but as soon as there are 20 points to gain...
The intermediate sprints are funny indeed.
There usually are four lead out trains riding next to each other with the first riders at the exact same height. None of them is trying to get in front. As soon as there's 1,5km left, the sprinter starts sprinting while there's still two men of their train in front of them. Their leadouts don't even lead them out, they're usually just blocking their own sprinter. It's very ridiculous..
Plus, all of them seem to go at 60 effort at the most. It's ridiculously easy to get half a minute gap to them in the few k's leading to the sprint with one helper.
I am yet to not win a bunch sprint for the intermediate points if I wanted to.
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| nacho63 |
Posted on 21-09-2013 08:20
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Sprinter
Posts: 1944
Joined: 14-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Immediate sprints the AI also sprint so late, I also get more points regardless of my sprinter by going slightly early without my leadout man as the "sprint trains" dont seem to react |
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| BritPCMFan |
Posted on 21-09-2013 13:37
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Stagiare
Posts: 245
Joined: 03-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Yeah, AI only sprints the inters from 1.2k with no sprint leadout. You get the 3 man trains that just stay at the front. If you make your own you can get it be a bit pacey but you still wont get proper leadouts.
Costa won that stage by the way. They eventually did pull and he ended up taking 19mins, which moves him nicely up in to the top 10 XD.
And to be fair, I guess if Valverde wasn't a GC threat, I could see him being let go. I often see breaks winning that stage by a freaking mile, but generally because I take control of the pack, let a break go with guys over an hour down and just coast 85% of the stage at about 30 effort.
I also like the way it seems like evreytime you let a break reach 1 minute per 10k left, a team will randonly pull at 90 for about 3 minutes before giving up. Every single time. |
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| Anderis |
Posted on 21-09-2013 19:57
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Domestique
Posts: 471
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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I realised that where there is a stage with two mountain and a flat section between them, some GC contenders try to attack on flat. They get caught by the pack immediately and launch the next attack as soon as they get caught. And they run those attack all the time (the same riders) despite the fact they're unable to get away.
It's also funny for your team to be a major force in the breakaway. For example, when you have 3 riders in a breakaway, and other teams have only one rider each, they expect you to do all the work. You can attack with one of your riders and other don't chase him because you still have the most men in that group and they expect you to work despite the fact that your rider is ahead. And the gap is growing so fast. You can gain so many advantage in GC.
Also AI don't seem to sprint when you have the most men in leading group. I've had a stage when there was a leading group with 5 or 6 my riders and other teams with 1, 2 or 3 riders. I tried to form my train but it got stuck behind other riders and I couldn't move it to the front. Other riders didn't bother to run fast because they wanted to use my train. They didn't start a sprint until 1km to go or so. And the leading group was caught by another group. It lost something like 2 or 3 minutes in 800 meters.  |
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| Bosskardo |
Posted on 23-09-2013 19:04
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Sprinter
Posts: 1559
Joined: 07-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Anderis wrote:
I realised that where there is a stage with two mountain and a flat section between them, some GC contenders try to attack on flat. They get caught by the pack immediately and launch the next attack as soon as they get caught. And they run those attack all the time (the same riders) despite the fact they're unable to get away.
This is kind of a problem in PCM12 too, Cyanide seems to never learn
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| thechudude |
Posted on 23-09-2013 23:24
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Stagiare
Posts: 153
Joined: 25-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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On the intermediate sprints i always just attack with my sprinter with 4 kms to go and the trains don't react so once i have a 30 second or so lead i jus dot at 70 and win comfortably |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 23-09-2013 23:30
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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thechudude wrote:
On the intermediate sprints i always just attack with my sprinter with 4 kms to go and the trains don't react so once i have a 30 second or so lead i jus dot at 70 and win comfortably
You spend far too much energy. 
Use a leadout with the dot from 5k out, somewhere around 70. Noone will latch onto your wheel because everyone else is on the dot as well.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 27-12-2024 20:06
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 24-09-2013 06:12
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
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PCM$: 300.00
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That is cheesy boys. 
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| bhlloy |
Posted on 06-10-2013 22:43
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Amateur
Posts: 5
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Just had a great one - stage 3 of Tour of Normandie, wind splits the pack about 15-20km out and I don't have single rider in the first 2 groups so I put everyone on 90 dot to try and salvage as much time as I can, I can only assume that the teams in the groups ahead were riding on zero effort because I caught them 5km out and two of my stronger flat riders even went 15 seconds into the lead and won the stage easily because nobody followed them.
As if that terrible AI wasn't bad enough, there was one other rider who did follow my two guys and probably would have won the sprint easy as they had zero bars left by then, but he started to sprint for a second and then got the "thought bubble" that he was ordered to wait for a teammate and dropped off and finished in the pack. WTF all around on that stage. |
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| itisix |
Posted on 07-10-2013 11:18
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Free Agent
Posts: 142
Joined: 26-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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I just finished my first GT (the Giro) and the first 2 weeks went pretty much OK, but the last week was terrible with never ending breaks. One had almost 30 minutes before I started to chase. OK, I was in the lead, but don't the other teams have any aspirations??
Another bad AI is rider form. I sent Dombrowski to the Giro. He started on 2 form and average rhythm with form to peak at top form during the last week. After a terrible TTT (as always) I lost some time. Lost even more on the first smaller climbs to the likes of Froome, Molema Hejsdall (he was on fire) and more. About halfway down the giro, they all started to show signs of lesser form. Froome (and the almighty sky team, including Nibali, but no Porte) had only cataldo has a decent climber and no other support. Same with other teams, not much support. Since I had put all my meat on the grill (as someone once said) I had 6 climbers (75 and 76) to help out and started to move my leader, but also made the others work with some attacks from the team mates.
They all cracked big time and in the end I got over 10 minutes over everyone else. The only ones close to me by the end where Aru and T.Pinot (Aru lost too much time on the early days and Pinot lost some). Actually Aru was massive on the last week.
I did my best to preserve my leader and never left him alone except on the final stages. On the other hand, cataldo was not that good of a team mate and Froome was left to chase a few times. Other leaders also had to pull some leg work themselves.
Froome was the best on paper with impressive TT and climbing skills, but by the end of the Giro, he could not even keep up with the pace on the bottom of the climbs. Terrible. I would have a much harder time should they have a decent training plan.
To top it off, Froome fell on a downhill and lost 4 minutes.
Still, I got 7 stages on the entire Giro. I think the other teams underestimated support a lot. I burned all my riders before it even got to the leader.
I'm playing on hard and I was actually very surprised at such a massive domination. Dombrowski had 83 climbing (82+1).
Edited by itisix on 07-10-2013 11:35
You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!
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| cio93 |
Posted on 07-10-2013 15:13
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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itisix wrote:
I just finished my first GT (the Giro) and the first 2 weeks went pretty much OK, but the last week was terrible with never ending breaks. One had almost 30 minutes before I started to chase. OK, I was in the lead, but don't the other teams have any aspirations??
No.
They don't mind losing 10 spots on GC, heck, you're the leader, it's your responsibility to chase! If we can't win, you won't win either!
Horribly bugged aspect indeed.
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| itisix |
Posted on 07-10-2013 16:47
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Free Agent
Posts: 142
Joined: 26-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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cio93 wrote:
itisix wrote:
I just finished my first GT (the Giro) and the first 2 weeks went pretty much OK, but the last week was terrible with never ending breaks. One had almost 30 minutes before I started to chase. OK, I was in the lead, but don't the other teams have any aspirations??
No.
They don't mind losing 10 spots on GC, heck, you're the leader, it's your responsibility to chase! If we can't win, you won't win either!
Horribly bugged aspect indeed.
Even on sprintable stages?
You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!
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| nacho63 |
Posted on 07-10-2013 17:32
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Sprinter
Posts: 1944
Joined: 14-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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On sprint stages I generally don't need to do much bringing bacl unless there is a significant hill |
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| murfi |
Posted on 10-10-2013 20:00
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Junior Rider
Posts: 31
Joined: 19-08-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Drives me mad when you're in a break and the Ai teams decide that you're not doing enough work and begin to attack from the break (this happens to me even when I'm on relay for some reason and doing my work!). Usually I go on dot 80 to catch them and then off they go again... and again... and again... They'll do this even if you go on high effort relay when you catch them. Had a race recently when a group of 6 riders continued this nonsense for 80k, then just stopped riding, wouldn't relay with me and waited to be caught. |
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| BritPCMFan |
Posted on 12-10-2013 00:33
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Stagiare
Posts: 245
Joined: 03-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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murfi wrote:
Drives me mad when you're in a break and the Ai teams decide that you're not doing enough work and begin to attack from the break (this happens to me even when I'm on relay for some reason and doing my work!). Usually I go on dot 80 to catch them and then off they go again... and again... and again... They'll do this even if you go on high effort relay when you catch them. Had a race recently when a group of 6 riders continued this nonsense for 80k, then just stopped riding, wouldn't relay with me and waited to be caught.
I've seen that happen. My gut is that its something to do with having someone in the peleton relay. IIRC when its happened to me, its late in a GT when I throw someone in the break for a stage with no intention of pulling, but end up throwing someone up the front on a low relay. I think the AI sees that, assumes the guy in the front isnt working even though he is.
Equally though, I've put rider in the break on relay so low he just sits at the back, and when i don't have anyone in the peleton pulling the break never get annoyed with me.
And I just had another amusing Moviestar game. Last climb of the day on one the Vuelta stages. Quintana is 6th, Valverde 1st. Its all broken up, lead group of about 14 with both in it. I had been setting a steady but not to hard pace with Quintana, but with 3.5 till the finish, had him attack. No-one followed. No-one pulled. All said they were leaving it to a favourite. IE, me, Valverde. Even though its my own team-mate up the road.
They are so funny sometimes. |
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| Masterblaster01 |
Posted on 12-10-2013 11:13
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 362
Joined: 07-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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BritPCMFan wrote:
murfi wrote:
Drives me mad when you're in a break and the Ai teams decide that you're not doing enough work and begin to attack from the break (this happens to me even when I'm on relay for some reason and doing my work!). Usually I go on dot 80 to catch them and then off they go again... and again... and again... They'll do this even if you go on high effort relay when you catch them. Had a race recently when a group of 6 riders continued this nonsense for 80k, then just stopped riding, wouldn't relay with me and waited to be caught.
I've seen that happen. My gut is that its something to do with having someone in the peleton relay. IIRC when its happened to me, its late in a GT when I throw someone in the break for a stage with no intention of pulling, but end up throwing someone up the front on a low relay. I think the AI sees that, assumes the guy in the front isnt working even though he is.
Equally though, I've put rider in the break on relay so low he just sits at the back, and when i don't have anyone in the peleton pulling the break never get annoyed with me.
And I just had another amusing Moviestar game. Last climb of the day on one the Vuelta stages. Quintana is 6th, Valverde 1st. Its all broken up, lead group of about 14 with both in it. I had been setting a steady but not to hard pace with Quintana, but with 3.5 till the finish, had him attack. No-one followed. No-one pulled. All said they were leaving it to a favourite. IE, me, Valverde. Even though its my own team-mate up the road.
They are so funny sometimes. Yeah they tend to do that... In my career Froome had the yellow jersey in the tour and when the break got away his whole team, including Froome himself, said they were leaving the chase to the favorites, eventhough Froome was in the yellow jersey AND one of the stage favorites..
Also the riders who are just 3 minutes behind or so say they leave it to the favorites, while there are differences made of up to 10 minutes between GC riders in very hard stages...
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