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Peter Sagan...rare talent, but...
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| Matrix |
Posted on 28-08-2013 08:57
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I love his style. And with his ability to climb some, he is different than a true sprinter.
I love watching him, makes stuff look so easy. A friend an I where talking about this earlier. But my question, open for debate is:
Sagan wasnt born a sprinter, climber or any other disipline. He worked his butt off for it. He can ride smaller climbs and hills pretty well. He is young, and strong. Do you feel Sagan has the ability to increase his climbing ability to be a true GC rider? Or is he forever a sprinter who can ride some climbs well?
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 28-08-2013 09:04
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75 kg is too much and can't recall him doing anything in a 30+ min effort.
So why would he give up dominating classics+green jersey so he can finish maybe 6th in the Tour |
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| nielsboy1998 |
Posted on 28-08-2013 09:43
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I think he can better be a strong sprinter and classics-rider. RvV or M-SR win is more famous than a 6th or 7th place in the Tour.
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| joostie |
Posted on 28-08-2013 09:51
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Spilak23 wrote:
75 kg is too much and can't recall him doing anything in a 30+ min effort.
So why would he give up dominating classics+green jersey so he can finish maybe 6th in the Tour
Allmost afraid to say it but 75kg isnt too much. Lance Dopestrong was 75kg, Ullrich was even heavier... its not just about the weight.
But i think its better for Peter to keep focusing on the classics and the green jersey. In a true masssprint he usually comes up short against Kittel, Cav and greipel. |
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 28-08-2013 10:07
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joostie wrote:
Allmost afraid to say it but 75kg isnt too much. Lance Dopestrong was 75kg, Ullrich was even heavier... its not just about the weight.
But i think its better for Peter to keep focusing on the classics and the green jersey. In a true masssprint he usually comes up short against Kittel, Cav and greipel.
Joostie... there is a reason why sprinters like Jalabert and other heavy riders could suddenly climb during the Armstrong era. It starts with an E.
With his current weight, Sagan has no business in the mountains.
Edited by ShortsNL on 28-08-2013 10:07
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| maximus |
Posted on 28-08-2013 12:30
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He probably has the talent to be a GC rider if he loses weight but it would be far better to focus on classics and keep his sprint up. |
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| BritPCMFan |
Posted on 29-08-2013 19:50
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ShortsNL wrote:
joostie wrote:
Allmost afraid to say it but 75kg isnt too much. Lance Dopestrong was 75kg, Ullrich was even heavier... its not just about the weight.
But i think its better for Peter to keep focusing on the classics and the green jersey. In a true masssprint he usually comes up short against Kittel, Cav and greipel.
Joostie... there is a reason why sprinters like Jalabert and other heavy riders could suddenly climb during the Armstrong era. It starts with an E.
With his current weight, Sagan has no business in the mountains.
The general point though i think was that its not impossible. He could easily dope up and lose a few kilos and challange for the tour.
It won't happen, because its far more credible for him to go Sprint/Classics. In the main, people don't generally accuse Sagan of doping everytime he wins, whereas they quite rightly would if he started winning the Tour.
Would be fun to see if he could sprint up Ventoux as fast as Froome though. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 02-09-2013 11:53
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One thing is sure in modern cycling, you cant win every type of stage in same year, with same focus. So his only chance for GT glory would be dropping some weight and switching a training focus a bit somewhere else, but i dont see it as impossible. Of course he would loose a lot of raw power then and ability to sprint so fast on the flat.
Also he spoke about this already, that he can try this path after he will be tired winning classics. But as he does not won much of the major ones (MSR, RvV and so), he still has someting to prove there. Also it would be strange to give up on all that green jerseys he can possibly have in the closet in the next years, i can see him challenging record of Zabel.
So i think it is higly possible in some 5 years that he will try and go with that kind of transformation. But will that be awarded with any GT glory? Who knows...
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| kumazan |
Posted on 05-09-2013 20:50
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Matrix wrote:
Do you feel Sagan has the ability to increase his climbing ability to be a true GC rider? Or is he forever a sprinter who can ride some climbs well?
Ugh. The guy has the potential to become a massive superstar in the classics. Why in the world should he change focus to climbing, when there's no guarantee he could be even half as successful as he could in the classics. There's more to cycling than stage racing, fortunately.
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| SotD |
Posted on 14-09-2013 22:40
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I think the main reason for Sagan not interested in doing GC's is that he wants to win everything he races, and in modern cycling that just doesn't add up. Even Froomebot can't win all stages, no matter how well they suit him.
As it stands now Sagan can win everything, bar very hard mountain stages, meaning that he can focus on the next stage when he misses a win. If he was to focus on just 2 or 3 stages at the Tour de France, risking not winning either and falling short of the overall win, I think he would damage his ego quite a bit.
Riders like Sagan doesn't have the mentality and patience to ride 3 weeks concentrated on just one goal.
I'm not sure he would be an awesome GT rider even with his current talent. He would never be able to climb like Froomebot and Quintana, and he will never TT like Cance and Panzerwagen, so I suspect he is not going to chance what he currently have, to make a bid to the GT's.
BTW I call that in 5 years time no one will be speaking much of Sagan. I reckon he is a monster in his young years, but will fade again fairly quickly. I think he already reached his top top level last season, and now will struggle to improve further.
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 14-09-2013 23:19
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SotD wrote:
Spoiler I think the main reason for Sagan not interested in doing GC's is that he wants to win everything he races, and in modern cycling that just doesn't add up. Even Froomebot can't win all stages, no matter how well they suit him.
As it stands now Sagan can win everything, bar very hard mountain stages, meaning that he can focus on the next stage when he misses a win. If he was to focus on just 2 or 3 stages at the Tour de France, risking not winning either and falling short of the overall win, I think he would damage his ego quite a bit.
Riders like Sagan doesn't have the mentality and patience to ride 3 weeks concentrated on just one goal.
I'm not sure he would be an awesome GT rider even with his current talent. He would never be able to climb like Froomebot and Quintana, and he will never TT like Cance and Panzerwagen, so I suspect he is not going to chance what he currently have, to make a bid to the GT's.
BTW I call that in 5 years time no one will be speaking much of Sagan. I reckon he is a monster in his young years, but will fade again fairly quickly. I think he already reached his top top level last season, and now will struggle to improve further.
He will gain experience though, which is very important in the classics. |
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| SotD |
Posted on 15-09-2013 11:34
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fosforgasXIII wrote:
SotD wrote:
Spoiler I think the main reason for Sagan not interested in doing GC's is that he wants to win everything he races, and in modern cycling that just doesn't add up. Even Froomebot can't win all stages, no matter how well they suit him.
As it stands now Sagan can win everything, bar very hard mountain stages, meaning that he can focus on the next stage when he misses a win. If he was to focus on just 2 or 3 stages at the Tour de France, risking not winning either and falling short of the overall win, I think he would damage his ego quite a bit.
Riders like Sagan doesn't have the mentality and patience to ride 3 weeks concentrated on just one goal.
I'm not sure he would be an awesome GT rider even with his current talent. He would never be able to climb like Froomebot and Quintana, and he will never TT like Cance and Panzerwagen, so I suspect he is not going to chance what he currently have, to make a bid to the GT's.
BTW I call that in 5 years time no one will be speaking much of Sagan. I reckon he is a monster in his young years, but will fade again fairly quickly. I think he already reached his top top level last season, and now will struggle to improve further.
He will gain experience though, which is very important in the classics.
Can you mention a World Tour stage where experience isn't a plus?
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 15-09-2013 15:25
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kumazan wrote:
Matrix wrote:
Do you feel Sagan has the ability to increase his climbing ability to be a true GC rider? Or is he forever a sprinter who can ride some climbs well?
Ugh. The guy has the potential to become a massive superstar in the classics. Why in the world should he change focus to climbing, when there's no guarantee he could be even half as successful as he could in the classics. There's more to cycling than stage racing, fortunately.
This. Most people don't understand that it's better to win 2 RvV's like Devolder than have thousands of top ten GC finishes but no victories. |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 15-09-2013 15:30
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maximus wrote:
He probably has the talent to be a GC rider if he loses weight but it would be far better to focus on classics and keep his sprint up.
He does not have the talent to be a serious GC contender, he is talented make no mistake but not as a Gc rider. He is a punchy sprinter which makes for a genuine classics rider, why would he change that up?
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 15-09-2013 17:35
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He can allways aim to win the 2030 Vuelta at the end of his carreer. |
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| Nin1388 |
Posted on 15-09-2013 17:56
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Lets keep it up to Sagan to figure that out. Even if he does not become successful GC guy. He is already good sprinter and good classics rider. He already won GV and has been on podium of RVV and E3H and 2 green jerseys at TdF, that is success by itself. He does not need top 10 TdF for that.
He has already proved that he is decent in TT and decent on hills. He can get over mountains too like in TdF when he goes for intermediate sprints. What he needs is improvement in mountains. May be top 20 in TdF with that. Win? I dont think so. Maybe with a lucky break, getting 20-30m and shaky winner, like Oscar Perreiro.  |
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| Aldis |
Posted on 16-09-2013 06:02
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Edited by Aldis on 23-10-2013 05:32
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 16-09-2013 06:30
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SotD wrote:
BTW I call that in 5 years time no one will be speaking much of Sagan. I reckon he is a monster in his young years, but will fade again fairly quickly. I think he already reached his top top level last season, and now will struggle to improve further.
I seriously dont think so, but hey, anything can happen and you can laugh at me in 2018. 
For all of you, dont forget Peter is former mountain biker and world champion there in juniors. That is achievment for decent climbers usually, bikers always climb well. So he has some climbing talent.
But what we think is not so important, better listen to some of the riders and trainers which are claiming Sagan can have a future in GTs, which is not prove, but it is interesting.
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