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Fitness, training fitness and fatigue
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| LLDS |
Posted on 15-02-2013 16:52
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Domestique
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So, the fitness/fatigue is a mystery for me. I understod the mainly idea, but some seconday aspects are still unknown for me.
I tried to make 3 fitness plans (I will put them bellow) to accomplish my goals, my sponsor demands and so on.
I know that the fitness has a value from 0 to 100 (although I never saw 100, but only 99). The value is formed from 2 parts: the training fitness (up to 80) and the race fitness (up to 20).
The training fitness value depends on the training fitness plan and on fatigue. So, if the training fitness plan for the first week of April is at level 6 (the biggest) the rider could reach 80 or will reach 80 ? In fact, I want to know if assigning fitness level for a certain period automatically put the fitness level for this period at the value equivalent for the level, or some other factors are involved. I don’t know the equivalence between each level of fitness and the actual fitness value. But the training fitness value depends also on fatigue. How that work, I don’t really know. I think it depends on training fitness plan (the white line, when we make our custom fitness training program) and on races. But how?
Does the training camp play on fitness level?
The race fitness. This is easier. It is a value from 0 to 20. But sometimes the maximum is lower than 20. I assume that this maximum value is lower on lower levels of training fitness plan and after the rider has more than 60 days raced in a season. Here again some questions. I saw that a race day means like 2 race fitness. But for how long? Because they don’t last forever. If I want that a rider be at 99 in the first day of a tour, how many days does he have to ride before the tour and how many days before? If a rider enter a tour with a value of race fitness of 0, does this value rise as he rides in the tour, or the stays for the all period of the tour as it is at the beginning ?
So, even if I don’t know how the fitness really works, I made 3 training fitness plans for 3 types of riders. I want to know what do you think about this. Are they made properly or not?
Plan 1 - Maximum form at March and mid-July (a bonus in october for the last races)
It’s a plan for Tour de France mainly. This riders will compete in Paris-Nice (8 days), Milan – San Remo (1 day), Volta a Catalunya (7 days), Tour de France (21 days), Tour of China (7 days). But I think I could move the first peak one week earlier. Is a plan for the leader of the team for Tour, for his mainly team mates, and for a sprinter.
https://imageshack...an1od.jpg/
Plan 2 – Maximum form in April and August September
It’s a plan for Classics : E3 (1 day), Gent-Wevelgem (1 day), Tour of Flanders (1 day), Tour of Basque Country (6 days), Paris-Roubaix (1 day), Amstel Gold Race (1 day), la Fleche Wallone, Vatenfall Cyclassics, Autumn classics. Mainly for Cancellara and Hushovd, because my sponsors have great demands for the classics this year.
https://imageshack...lan2x.jpg/
Plan 3 – Maximum form in May and September
It’s a plan for Giro and Vuelta : Giro (21 days), Vuelta (21 days). Because I lost Andy at the last of the first season, now I have only Franck Schleck and Peraud from AG2R La Mondiale for the Grand Tours. I put Peraud for The Tour (climbing jersey – a sponsor demand) and with Franck I try to win Giro and Vuelta in the same season. I want to apply this plan for Franck and his 2-3 team mates.
https://imageshack...lan3z.jpg/
P.S. Have no idea why I can't put the images, so I give you the links.
Edited by LLDS on 15-02-2013 16:59
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| LLDS |
Posted on 15-02-2013 17:04
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Domestique
Posts: 700
Joined: 10-02-2013
PCM$: 400.00
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Now it's working  .
Plan 1 :
Plan 2 :
Plan 3 :
Edited by LLDS on 15-02-2013 17:04
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| LLDS |
Posted on 16-02-2013 11:28
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Domestique
Posts: 700
Joined: 10-02-2013
PCM$: 400.00
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After some research work on the forum, on earlier topics, I found most of the answers regarding training fitness and race fitness.
But I still need some advised opinions for my training plans. Are they god or bad for my team ? |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 16-02-2013 13:16
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Tour de France Champion
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The schedules look good for me. Not too tiring, enough peaks, the team will get in great shape at the right time.  |
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| LLDS |
Posted on 16-02-2013 14:50
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Domestique
Posts: 700
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Thanks Ian Butler.
Now I try to calculate the race days for every rider.
The hardest is for Giro/Vuelta riders, because the two GT have 21 days each, so a total of 42. If I add a one week tour before each GT, I have 56. But I have to put my riders on their favored races also.
I try to put my riders on their favored races, or at least in two of them.
For the young riders I try to make a fitness training plan easier, with only a peak and a maximum of 40 day of race. I don't want to exhaust them and loose their potential. |
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| MartijnVDD |
Posted on 16-02-2013 15:34
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Breakaway Specialist
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You shouldn't be afraid of going over 60 race days.
I myself make sure my riders have at least 15 race days before their first big goal and max 60 race days after their last big goal. From then on, I don't look at race days any more. You don't start your season with maximum fitness either.
Also, the AI goes over 60 race days as well. Especially in the Vuelta.
Edited by MartijnVDD on 16-02-2013 15:36
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 16-02-2013 15:46
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Tour de France Champion
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Young riders won't lose potential by racing too much, that's a myth
Also, it's okay to have more than 60, even 80 race days at the end of the season.
Riders don't necessarily have to enter their favorite races, I don't know the effect of that, but it is very minor either way. |
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| MartijnVDD |
Posted on 16-02-2013 16:06
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Breakaway Specialist
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Ian Butler wrote:
Riders don't necessarily have to enter their favorite races, I don't know the effect of that, but it is very minor either way.
Maybe it affects happiness a little bit. |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 16-02-2013 16:11
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
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Yeah, but either way, doesn't really matter. |
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| LLDS |
Posted on 16-02-2013 16:22
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Domestique
Posts: 700
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I keep an eye for the race days on Giro/Vuelta training plan, because I risk to have riders with 65 race days in the last week, so a drop of 4 in race fitness, which will be added at a drop of ~5 from fatigue, it's almost a drop of 10 in the very last week.
For the others, I don't really care about race days, as long as they are not at 60 race days yet during the level 6 of fitness. For example, last season I put Kloden on 107 days  .
For the young riders I didn't know it is a myth, thanks for sharing . |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 17:58
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| pmyraje |
Posted on 17-02-2013 12:43
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Looks good, although in that 3rd schedule you could drop 1 level of fatigue for your Vuelta peak by not having those 4 weeks of slightly above minimum training right at the start of the schedule |
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| yoejo |
Posted on 17-02-2013 22:51
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question now that we talk about the fitness. Is it a big difference between 96 in fitness and 99? is there any difference at all? |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 17-02-2013 23:02
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World Champion
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pmyraje wrote:
Looks good, although in that 3rd schedule you could drop 1 level of fatigue for your Vuelta peak by not having those 4 weeks of slightly above minimum training right at the start of the schedule
I actually doubt that'll make a difference, did you test it in-game?
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| Kentaurus |
Posted on 17-02-2013 23:04
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Classics Specialist
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yoejo wrote:
question now that we talk about the fitness. Is it a big difference between 96 in fitness and 99? is there any difference at all?
No it isn't a big difference, but it will have an impact.
AZTECA - NBCSN  |
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| RafaMarcos |
Posted on 01-04-2013 21:16
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Junior Rider
Posts: 26
Joined: 19-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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how to reach 99 fitness?
I have Brajkovic on 3rd Giro week. he must be on peak now for 2 weeks but has 95-96 only (76-77 training fitness +19 race)
fatigue is ok, its his first peak of the season |
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| LLDS |
Posted on 01-04-2013 21:55
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Domestique
Posts: 700
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How much is the fatigue ?
I think it is somewhere at 6000. In this case you can not have more than 76-77 of fitness training.
Until 4000 fatigue your maximum fitness level won't be affected.
At 6000 your maximum fitness level will be about 76-77.
At 8000 your maximum fitness level will be about 75.
At 10000 or more your maximum fitness level will be about 65.
At this numbers you add the race fitness and this is your final fitness value . |
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| RafaMarcos |
Posted on 01-04-2013 23:27
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Junior Rider
Posts: 26
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just checked, he has 3900
it cant be fatigue, I didnt use him earlier this season, simple 2 weeks peak on Giro
the same fitness schedule for Kessiakoff (98 now) and Aru (97)
may be its something with morale? Brajkovic has 53 (the lowest in the team) |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 02-04-2013 08:40
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Grand Tour Champion
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It might take a while to reach 80 in training fitness.
The fitness plans can go wrong, if a rider was injured.
But I am pretty sure that morale is not involved. |
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| shin0da_13 |
Posted on 17-04-2013 06:23
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Free Agent
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I have a similar problem with RafaMarcos. I'm at the tour with Pinot and he has a custom trainig schedule with a peak of 5 for two weeks at the start of March and 2 levels of 6 in the middle of July. He only reached 77 points in training from a maximum of 80. I don't know why this has happened. He indeed had an injury of aproximately 1 week at the end of March but Jeannesson is on the same schedule and has the same training level although he was injury free. |
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| LLDS |
Posted on 17-04-2013 10:26
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Domestique
Posts: 700
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I thing it is because of the fatigue. A big fatigue reduce your maximum fitness value. |
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