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Time bonuses in the Tour de France or not?
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| Simse |
Posted on 22-07-2012 23:26
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Amateur
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Hello everyone, I have been lurking around on this site for a couple of years downloading databases and stages, while I haven't been that active on the forum yet. However, with this post I am going to change that.
In a couple of years I have been wondering why the Tour-directors decided to abolish the time bonuses on each stage. Rumors say that they did it to increase the unpredictability in the race, which an Irish website has analyzed on: Link.
Quote from the website:
"If there had been no time bonuses in the 1993 Tour de France, having won the Prologue time trial, Miguel Indurain would have been in yellow for the entire race. Instead we saw the jersey swap shoulders five times between Mario Cipollini, Wilfred Nelissen and Johan Museeuw. It would have been a similar tale of monotony in the 1999 and 2002 Tours."
So, if the Tour director removed the time bonuses before 2008, he probably wouldn't have increased the unpredictability of the race, rather the opposite.
Furthermore, it frustrates me that the missing time bonuses has caused that the GC-riders ride passively towards the end of a mountain stage instead of sprinting for, say 8 or 12 bonus seconds.
To sum up, it seems for me that the Tour-society has taken the incentive to ride offensively out of the Tour de France, while making the first week much more boring to watch. However, they have compensated for the lacking bonus seconds by creating a much more hilly first week than before. That is another discussion, but chapeau for that.
Finally, I have made a group on Facebook to show the support for bringing back the time bonuses in Tour de France. Link
Edited by Simse on 22-07-2012 23:36
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| thestorm93 |
Posted on 22-07-2012 23:56
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Junior Rider
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The Tour de France would be much more fun if there was time bonuses in the race again!
It would be much more unpredictable because it would make sense to go for the second place on a stage |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 23-07-2012 00:55
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Grand Tour Champion
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I seem to change my own opinion on this every 6 months but I think I'm at the point where I think they are good until the race reaches the mountains. It gives sprinters a chance to wear yellow and keeps it swapping around for a while.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 23-07-2012 06:20
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Simse wrote:
Furthermore, it frustrates me that the missing time bonuses has caused that the GC-riders ride passively towards the end of a mountain stage instead of sprinting for, say 8 or 12 bonus seconds.
To sum up, it seems for me that the Tour-society has taken the incentive to ride offensively out of the Tour de France, while making the first week much more boring to watch.
That also prevents riders from attacking, because instead of a risky attack they can just sit and wait for the sprint to gain an advantage.
Coward racing is a plague in nowadays cycling. I'm afraid there's no solution to that, bar, maybe, legalising testosterone. |
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| solano |
Posted on 23-07-2012 07:40
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Stagiare
Posts: 181
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I'm against them, although it depends on the type of race.
I do feel that time gaps should be earned. If 2 riders end up a wheel apart at the end of the stage I think they should get the same time. If there is no time bonus then someone has to actual get a gap to their rival to get a time gap. |
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 23-07-2012 08:57
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Tour de France Champion
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Time bonuses in my opinion should be put back in the race, then there will be action up mountain top finishes instead of wheel sucking to the tops 
As for the sprint bonuses, leave them as they are because they are making it a bit more exciting |
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 23-07-2012 09:05
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I'd like to see something similar to the Giro's system. Bonuses on the flat stages, so that the sprinters can battle for the yellow jersey in the first week, and also on mountain stages that doesn't end on a climb.
Mountain top finishes should definitely not have bonuses. If there were, the riders would wait for the final couple of hundred meters before they attack, since they easily gain some time there thanks to the bonuses. As it is now, they're forced to attack from further out if they want time.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 23-07-2012 09:06
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I would like something like at the Giro, bonus seconds on the flat stages and noone on the mountains.
Edit: Zabeld by Pelli 
But just note that Giro MTFs were boring also without bonus seconds, so it is not the most important thing...
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 23-07-2012 09:07
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 05:52
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| emre99 |
Posted on 23-07-2012 09:09
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
I would like something like at the Giro, bonus seconds on the flat stages and noone on the mountains.
Edit: Zabeld by Pelli
But just note that Giro MTFs were boring also without bonus seconds, so it is not the most important thing...
And also Giro is more exciting from Letour because of :
Time Bonuses
Final Stage TT
More Mountain Stage
More TTT (in 2013 Tour de France there is)
Giro gives chances to sprinters to get pink jersey in first stages.
Edited by emre99 on 23-07-2012 09:11
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| kumazan |
Posted on 23-07-2012 10:19
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I don't mind them in the flat stages, but in the mountain stages there should not be time bonuses, it just promotes wheelsucking.
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| doddy13 |
Posted on 23-07-2012 10:24
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They make racing exciting, but do we want to see a race won on time bonuses? I think not, we want attacking riding, something that time bonuses does not promote.
There's no point slapping a schleck - Sean Kelly on "Who needs a slap"
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| wisdow23 |
Posted on 23-07-2012 10:56
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Stagiare
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I think bonus seconds (something like ) 10-6-4 in the MTF is fair enough. Bonus second make the race (stage) more exciting, but 20-12-8 is just too much IMO. |
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| Simse |
Posted on 23-07-2012 11:26
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doddy13 wrote:
They make racing exciting, but do we want to see a race won on time bonuses? I think not, we want attacking riding, something that time bonuses does not promote.
I have to say that I disagree here, as I think that the time bonuses encourage the GC riders to sprint for a small time gains on the final climb instead of riding passively towards the finish line (like the famous 2010 Tourmalet-stage where Contador gave away the win to Andy Schleck).
What's more, with time bonuses, we could see other riders than the prologue specialist wear and fight for the yellow jersey in the first week instead of accepting that riders like Cancellara or Tony Martin will keep the jersey until the mountain stages begin. Thus, with this scenario, a rider like Peter Sagan won't have a chance to wear the yellow jersey, if the Tour de France starts with a prologue. |
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| SotD |
Posted on 23-07-2012 11:53
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Aquarius wrote:
Simse wrote:
Furthermore, it frustrates me that the missing time bonuses has caused that the GC-riders ride passively towards the end of a mountain stage instead of sprinting for, say 8 or 12 bonus seconds.
To sum up, it seems for me that the Tour-society has taken the incentive to ride offensively out of the Tour de France, while making the first week much more boring to watch.
That also prevents riders from attacking, because instead of a risky attack they can just sit and wait for the sprint to gain an advantage.
Coward racing is a plague in nowadays cycling. I'm afraid there's no solution to that, bar, maybe, legalising testosterone.
Well I agree, and I don't agree...
Some rider types would try to control the race even more. A rider such as Wiggins would try his best to tare the group apart, so his direct competitor wouldn't outsprint him time. Riders with a poor sprint would have to attack to get those seconds. Thus making attacks even more profitable. We could also see a group of three riders, where one would try to get rid of the two others because he knows that the others are faster than him on the line for the bonus seconds, while atm, they might work together to get more time.
It really depends on the race and the contestants. I am definately pro time bonusses in the flat stages, so we can see some other sprinters trying to go bonanza in sprints. A rider like Boasson Hagen would all of a sudden have a much higher incitament to sprint his own chances as a top 3 in the final sprint would probably give him yellow. Sprinters would yet again have to take the prologue serious, and other stuff like that.
So time bonuses in the mid stage sprints, and towards the end would be good imo.
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