All stagaries will be placed in a pool to be selected by D2 teams. At the end of the D2 transfer period, D2 teams will have one chance to select up to two (2) stagiares. If a stagiare is selected by multiple D2 teams the following tie breakers will be used.
a. A D2 team with the same Nationality as the rider.
b. Random dice roll by Man-Game administrator
The stagiares selected by D2 teams will be allocated 25 race days to be used up to the end of July. On August 1st all stagaires return to the Man-Game team who originally signed them.
Stagaires will earn 2 xp for any race they race wether it be D2 or in a CT on a wild card invitation.
D2 teams must still not exceed the maximum riders allowed. D2 teams not be responsible for any of the stagaires salary.
Allows Stagaires to earn XP in the D2 before they are eligible for PT/CT races.
2..D2 Nationality Wild Card Race
Each D2 team will be given one (1) CT Wildcard Invitation to a race in thier home country. If a D2 team's nationality does not have a corresponding CT race in that country they will be invited as a Wildcard to another CT race.
Allows the D2 teams to get the best race for sponsor support and potentially have a few riders with the home country bonus.
3..Free Agent Level Ups
Add a new field into the Man-Game database to track the number of consecutive seasons a rider has been a Free Agent. Thier 1st season as a Free Agent the counter would be 0, then 1 and on to 2. At the begining of each even number season (Counter # not calander) greater than 0, the Free Agent would be allowed to level up 1 level and receive training as long as they are age eligible.
If a Free Agent is signed and then returns to be a Free Agent the counter would be reset to 0.
4..Encouraging Teams with National Flavor
Any team in the PT or CT who has 10 or more riders from the same country will be allowed 1% bonus on earned monies for the next year for each nationality rider as long as the have a minimum of 10 riders from the same country. The maximum nationality bonus is capped at 20%.
A team may only have one Nationality bonus even if they have 10 riders from each of 2 or 3 countries.
5..Expand D2 Ability to earn XP
Allow level 1, 2 and 3 riders to earn XP will they are racing in D2 races.
Level 1 riders: 2 XP per race day
Level 2 riders: 1 XP per race day
Level 3 riders: 1 XP for one day races, .5 XP for each multiple stage race day (round down) --- so a race with 6 stages a level 3 rider would earn 3 XP, for a 7 stage race a level 3 rider would earn 3 XP.
[i]The only reason rider is still available for D2 team is because he needs to improve his skills. A level 3 rider currently earns 0 xp in D2 races. This will at least let them progress, at a slow rate, to level up.
I like ideas 1 and 2. 1 is good because it gives more depth to the stagiare system. The managers for their CT/PT team get to keep track of them and know more about them and how they ride in the lower division, which is a lot more like real life.
I like Idea 2 because it is a good way to integrate the D2 into the rest of the Man Game so it all comes together as one big system. Right now it is just the CT and ProTour, with the D2 off to the side doing its own thing.
As for idea 3, I'm kind of split. I don't think free agents should get experience if they aren't racing, because it kind of devalues the race day system. On the other hand, I know that there are several Swiss riders that could be decent team mates if they were maxed out, but right now their stats are awful and it wouldn't be worth investing in them to make a more realistic team.
For Idea 4, I think we should find some way to encourage more nation-based teams, but there are many options for this that could be discussed.
For 5, yeah I'm not a D2 manager so I can't say one way or another.
3. Seems to undermine the experience system of improving riders that is in place at the moment.
4. Would end up seeing an unrealistic game in my opinion as country nowadays are more international anyway especially the bigger team e.g Sky BMC and are not looking for a huge number of national team riders just the best ones from there country maybe a bonus for having your teams national champion e.g Cafe de Columbia has the columbian national champion so the team will give them a bonus?
1 seems great because it would also mean that D2 teams could spend more on a leader if they don't mind taking stagiares. 2 wouldn't do any harm and would add a bit of flavour. The reward system works alright though.
As for 3 I don't agree. With the D2 system I think we are going to see fewer undeveloped talents anyway.
While 4 would really benefit me and add a lot of interesting new teams I'm undecided.
5 I disagree with. The teired system means that CT teams already barely earn or putting their level 3 riders in CT races.
Im really enjoying these idea threads coming through from a few people - more ideas is always good. Though they will be more useful if they can wait a few months until next season planning really starts (from June).
1. Could work. Stagiare idea added a bit of realism, provided another salary cap option, and worked to give more riders a bit of xp - but of course, D2 has been brought in since then, and they may be a good combination together.
2. Not really feasible in terms of having a fair split of wildcards across D2 teams.
3. For various reasons, no. Too much work/hassle, doesnt reward teams who take on riders with a view to what they will eventually be - rather than what they currently are, etc etc I dont really see the point in it either. I usually ensure theres plenty of new free agent choice each season - but I do that randomly, or with certain nationalities in mind if there is an expected increase in demand likely for that country - no reason to give it a system.
4. Its great to have these teams, but priority should go for freedom of choice. It makes sense for the D2 teams to have a nationality focus because of the level theyre at, and their budget - but for CT and PT, do what you like. (And for D2 teams that go CT, theyre welcome to change everything from their D2 team if they so wish - though it is of course great to see those who want to develop their existing concept)
5. That riders in D2 gain a bit of XP is a bonus - priority is on manager development, not rider development. In realism terms, its not realistic either that a Level 3 rider would gain anything by racing in 'weak fields' (relative to the game as a whole).
Some nice ideas MHaley, i pretty much agree with the others. 1. Very good idea i think, it would be a nice piece of realism in the man-game, when stagiares would gain expirience in the lower Division, where they could be also watched closer by their higher- tier managers.
2. As i said in the earlier suggestions thread, i think the wildcard system is fine as it is, when SN is giving the wildcards for activity and teams fitting into the races.
3.Too much work and far from reality, when riders should be also gaining experience even if they are not racing.
4. This sounds great, but i can imagine some different sort of bonus (but i am not sure which one ) than the money bonus. Also as SN said this decion should be volunteery and it would be hard for some nationalities to form a challenging team, on the other hand these team are "cooler" and admired by the others ( as we see with Meji and OZ cycling, sorry guys to link you with bad results, but it fits my point).
Also D2 is yet now connected to nationalities, but maybe i would even up the percentage of home-grown riders D2 team needs (than we need more okay riders for some states to be able to compete).
Maybe there could be some sort of "bonus" or "reliefs" for really exotic countries, because whole-italian team with national bonus for example, or other strong european countries, would be pawning the rest of the world.
5. I am not really sure with this, but lvl 3 rider should be ecouraged to compete on the bigger tears and should not probably eran an experience in the weaker field (maybe some very low 0.2/race day or something).
1. Could work really well. However, some of the better stagiares are good enough to do pretty well in CDiv2 races, so it may be worth asking CDiv2 teams to pay a fee for them.
2. I like the current system, as this makes it a free for all rather than a reward for activity.
3. I'm not really a fan, because it takes away some of the purpose of developing riders. If a Free Agent looks like he could be good in future, I would take them on for the long run reagrdless of current stats.
4. I'm not sure. For example, if you have a European team you are at a disadvantage as you have a wider rider spread, whereas Aussie and Asian teams have less choice in terms of nationality. It could work, but it may lead to all new applicants going for interesting nationalities, for example the likes of China, the Middle Eastern Emirates, etc which could be good or bad.
5. I think it's fine as it is, because most Level 3 riders are so experienced that Div 2 is a walk in the park for them in terms of gaining experience.
Thanks for the feedback. Ideas only get better when they have a wide range of review and revision.
The only additional point I would like to make is regarding allowing 1/2 XP for level 3 riders in the D2.
I need to preface my point by saying it was MY mistake that started this whole issue. I signed a 23 year old American rider name David Talbot. He has solid stats but not good enough to be a D2 podium rider. His stats make him an all around GC threat. What attracted me to him were two things.
First he was good enough that he had alrrady spent 2 seasons on a CT team before being released this year. Second He was very close to making a level upgrade. He was a level 3 with 81 XP. I double checked the XP rules and I knew he would not earn any XP in D2 races.
Once he was signed it was a big question as to what to do with him. I could race him alot and he would be a solid steady rider and get a few top 20 finishes but it would hurt his future if I could not find a way to have him earn the 19 XP to level up.
I immediately though, no problem, a couple of good wildcard tours and we would be ok. Wildcard invitations come when you least expect them. My first was to the early season race Mumbai Cycletron 2 and it was a 1 day race and not at all suited for Talbot's skills. Don't worry I though there will be more chances for wildcards later in the season. Optimistic but not realistic. It sounds like AMEX might get one more wildcard invite but we have no guarantee.
More recently I have focused on getting Talbot a ride in the Tour l'Avenir (U23), which he is age qualified for and with that being a 10 day tour he could earn 20 xp and level up by one point. Great idea but right now there is no guarantee that Talbot can get on a team for that race. D2 teams are very unlikely to get a team, so we will have to go searching for an open spot on a PT/CT team that needs a rider.
I think it is unrealistic that Talbot cannot gain enough xp in a full year in the D2 to get at least 20 XP. Does he deserve to earn XP at the same rates as level 1 or 2 riders no, but a level 3 rider should be able to earn some XP. Talbot was allocated about 50 race days, so earning approximately 1/2 xp per race day he should have been able to earn between 20-25 XP for the season.
How many riders does this effect - not many, a handful at best, but why should thier growth ability be shut off completely by having to race in the D2.
If Talbot already has earned enough XP at the CT level to make it to level 3/81, and still be just 23 years old he should have some potential, maybe not at the PT level but with some training he could be a solid stage racer at the CT level, if he does not lose growth for a full season.
So in short, you had unrealistic expectations that D2 teams would get lots of wildcards to every single CT race - which was never something that was going to happen. I dont get it either - why be so greedy? - the focus should be on D2, with a small bonus of CT, not trying to push for as many CT races as possible.
The optimum races for level 3 riders gaining XP are ProTour races. Theres no reason why racing in D2 should gain you anything in level 3, just like the opposite situation - where a level 1 rider will gain nothing for riding in any ProTour races.
I think it is unrealistic that Talbot cannot gain enough xp in a full year
In real life terms. Think of level 3 as a rider on a ProTour team. If he shows up to a domestic race, he isnt going to be learning from it at all.
How many riders does this effect - not many, a handful at best, but why should thier growth ability be shut off completely by having to race in the D2.
That makes no sense, when the alternative is not riding at all. Its not like you buying him in D2 stopped a CT team picking him.
More recently I have focused on getting Talbot a ride in the Tour l'Avenir (U23)
Say, what? Why on earth are you doing that now? Like every season, there will be an Avenir thread closer to the time, and there all the teams will be sorted out - everybody who wants to have riders in the race almost certainly will.
I agree, we are in D2 to learn, not to build the squad for the future. You will have this chance if accepted to the CT i hope.
And i must admit i was also thinking about contacting some higher-tier manager because of Avenir, but now i am glad i was patient enough and waited what will happen around it.
Well, all points have been adressed by now, but anyway wanted to say that I like suggestions 1 & 2, although I can see why 2 isn't feasible.
Not really a fan of 3,4 & 5 though, I think 3 & 5 have been perfectly explained by SN, and as for 4, I think it's too unfavorable for teams from smaller nations, and could end up making teams almost look like national teams. If someone choses to manage his team à la Euskaltel fine, but I don't think it should have a bonus.
Edited by kumazan on 20-04-2012 14:39
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
I agree, we are in D2 to learn, not to build the squad for the future. You will have this chance if accepted to the CT i hope.
I agree, as I understand it D2 was a way for us managers to get used to the man-game. Then if we show throughout the season that we are willing to spend time on the game and contribute to it then we may be invited to the Continental tour next season. Therefore I think that it is a good idea to learn the ropes in D2 and move on if you get invited to the Continental tour.
