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Time Trial vs Prologue
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| sobrano |
Posted on 21-07-2011 06:01
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i have 2 questions:
1) how to work Time Trial and Prologue? they are both active in TT stages? with a TT/PRO rate? (similar to HIL/MON rate?)
2) in a TT stage with Hilly profile or Mountain profile, is Time Trial skill active while i am running on a climb with a TT/HIL rate? or Time trial skill work only on flat sectors?
ty,sobrano |
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| Quizzor |
Posted on 21-07-2011 06:08
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Not totally sure on ur question but i give you wht i knw about TT. In TT you look at the small map flat is green, hill is orange and Mountain is red. Now depending on the TT the skills will apply. Not all time trials are dependent on TT skills.
Prologue skill is used when you have 50 Km TT.
When i do time trial i turn tht yellow thing off and raise and lower the effort bar as the race goes on
Hope tht helps |
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| tehMalone |
Posted on 21-07-2011 06:12
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Stagiare
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Quizzor wrote:
Not totally sure on ur question but i give you wht i knw about TT. In TT you look at the small map flat is green, hill is orange and Mountain is red. Now depending on the TT the skills will apply. Not all time trials are dependent on TT skills.
Prologue skill is used when you have 50 Km TT.
When i do time trial i turn tht yellow thing off and raise and lower the effort bar as the race goes on
Hope tht helps
Sorry mate, you sooo missed the point:
1. What he is asking for is in the DB, I reckon, as he has previously asked for stuff like this.
2. You are right about the fact that the more hills there are, the less the TT skill applies, but he knew that as well
3. The prolouge stat is NOT for 50 km TT. A Prolouge is a short TT, up to about 10 km. Like the first stage of a race like Paris Nice. Prolouge means something like "first" or something like that, and they are normaly less than 10 kms. That's why some 'sprinters' have high Prolouge stat. |
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| Quizzor |
Posted on 21-07-2011 06:20
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Stagiare
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Awesome mate just another thing to add to my knowledge of this game thanks |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 21-07-2011 11:48
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tehMalone wrote:
Sorry mate, you sooo missed the point:
1. What he is asking for is in the DB
3. A Prolouge is a short TT, up to about 10 km. .
3)so let me know if i understood...
if the stage is 9.9 km it is a considered a prologue so TT skill is totally disabled while PRL skill is enabled.
when i am approaching a climb in a T.T-Mountain stage i have to consider:
PRL skill+MON skill if stage is <10km
iTT skill+MON skill if the stage is >10km
1) there is a DYN_ or a STA_ file where i can read coefficents and numbers about this question? |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 21-07-2011 11:55
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No, that's not correct. I don't have the exact quote, but both stats are used no matter the length. |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 21-07-2011 12:48
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CrueTrue wrote:
No, that's not correct. I don't have the exact quote, but both stats are used no matter the length.
so you are saying: for any TT stages, PRL and TT skills are both enabled?
but u dont know anything about TT/PRL rate as a function of stage length ? |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 21-07-2011 12:58
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I'm not obsessed with the technical figures, so I can't really help you any further 
This is the non-technical version, provided by issoisso:
"If the distance is sufficiently short, only the prologue stat is used. If it's sufficiently long, only the TT stat is used. In between, both are used, to a varying degree. Obviously, the longer the distance, the more the TT stat is used and vice-versa" |
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| Goldberg80 |
Posted on 21-07-2011 13:02
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I'm curious about this as well. |
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| roturn |
Posted on 21-07-2011 13:19
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I have seen an overview in the last weeks, but wasn`t able to find it again.
But it was pretty much like this.
<8km -> 100% prologue
<20km -> 60% prologue, 40% time trial
30km -> 50/50
<40km -> 70TT, 30prl
>40km more and more 100% TT
These values are probably not 100% exactly but it might help to understand the system.
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| lasol |
Posted on 21-07-2011 16:26
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roturn wrote:
I have seen an overview in the last weeks, but wasn`t able to find it again.
But it was pretty much like this.
<8km -> 100% prologue
<20km -> 60% prologue, 40% time trial
30km -> 50/50
<40km -> 70TT, 30prl
>40km more and more 100% TT
These values are probably not 100% exactly but it might help to understand the system.
I Hope PRL stat isn't used at all for TTs over 20km. It's unrealistic. With continental teams, you rarely get TT's over 20km. In Bayern Rundfarth (if I recall correctly) there's a 35km TT, but otherwise they're 3-20km. PRL is ProLogue. less than 10km In real life (Or is it 8km).. So for continental teams you should find a good PRL'er, not a goor TT'er, which is unrealistic...
If those r correct. |
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| roturn |
Posted on 21-07-2011 16:48
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Imo it`s a mix of both values until ~40km.
But on time trials longer than 20km the prologue stat becomes more and more unimportant with every additional kilometer. |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 21-07-2011 17:37
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CrueTrue wrote:
I'm not obsessed with the technical figures, so I can't really help you any further
This is the non-technical version, provided by issoisso:
"If the distance is sufficiently short, only the prologue stat is used. If it's sufficiently long, only the TT stat is used. In between, both are used, to a varying degree. Obviously, the longer the distance, the more the TT stat is used and vice-versa"
ty vm anyway,  i always need numbers to fully understand the game
i am sorry |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 21-07-2011 17:38
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roturn wrote:
I have seen an overview in the last weeks, but wasn`t able to find it again.
But it was pretty much like this.
<8km -> 100% prologue
<20km -> 60% prologue, 40% time trial
30km -> 50/50
<40km -> 70TT, 30prl
>40km more and more 100% TT
These values are probably not 100% exactly but it might help to understand the system.
this table is very interesting... it will be nice to find the source... |
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| roturn |
Posted on 21-07-2011 18:02
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This here was the experience by Daniano, who tested it with PCM10.
That was the overview I was looking for.
-5km = 100% Prologue
10km = 80% Prologue & 20% TT
15km = 60% Prologue & 40% TT
20km = 40% Prologue & 60% TT
25km = 20% Prologue & 80% TT
30+km = 100% TT
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| sobrano |
Posted on 21-07-2011 18:13
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roturn wrote:
This here was the experience by Daniano, who tested it with PCM10.
That was the overview I was looking for.
-5km = 100% Prologue
10km = 80% Prologue & 20% TT
15km = 60% Prologue & 40% TT
20km = 40% Prologue & 60% TT
25km = 20% Prologue & 80% TT
30+km = 100% TT
ty so much, do you know something like that but about TT/HIL for the climb of the TT stages?
for exemple:
slope 0% = 100%TT & 0 HILL
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slope 4% =50% TT & 50% HILL |
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| roturn |
Posted on 21-07-2011 18:16
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The hill/mountain difference is defined in the DB. It doesn`t matter if timetrial or normal stage.
In STA_Stage there is gene_f_mountain.
A 1 means 100% mountain stat on every climb, even if it`s just a very short one.
A 0 is 100% hill.
a 0,5 of course 50/50.
The values in between should be clear then.
You could for example change the 1 in todays Galibier stage to a 0. Then Gilbert will be the top favourite, no matter if there are high slopes as his 83 hill stat would favour him then.
In mountain timetrials it`s normally a 1, so 100% mountain stat on all slopes.
In flat TT`s it`s normally 0 (- 0,25), so the hill stat is everywhere more important.
Edited by roturn on 21-07-2011 18:18
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| mnissen |
Posted on 21-07-2011 21:45
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I don´t think sobranos question was related to the hill/mountain difference. I think he want´s to know at what point the hill/mountain stats affect riders on a tt. |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 21-07-2011 21:48
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roturn wrote:
The hill/mountain difference is defined in the DB. It doesn`t matter if timetrial or normal stage.
In mountain timetrials it`s normally a 1, so 100% mountain stat on all slopes.
In flat TT`s it`s normally 0 (- 0,25), so the hill stat is everywhere more important.
what that i mean is something about TT(or PRL) skill
if we consider gene_mountain =1 so when i am running on a climb i have to consider HILL=0%,MON=100%, and what about TT(or PRL)=?
with other words: TT skill or PRL skill work only on flat sectors? or is it combined with MON? |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 21-07-2011 21:50
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mnissen wrote:
I don´t think sobranos question was related to the hill/mountain difference. I think he want´s to know at what point the hill/mountain stats affect riders on a tt.
i want to know at what point TT skill affect riders on climbing of TT stages (without FLAT sectors)
Edited by sobrano on 21-07-2011 21:51
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