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Prologues way too easy
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| wroblitz |
Posted on 17-10-2010 08:32
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 289
Joined: 27-12-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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It's been like this since I remember and nothing has changed in PCM10.
Prologues are way too easy to win (general rule is - the shorter TT is the easier to win it). Basically it seems to me like all AI riders are set to 65 (no matter how long TT is). It might work on 20km TT's but on the short ones where sometimes you have to put your rider even on 80 to used up all his energy it's just disaster.
I play on hard and here's my results from this year's Vuelta prologue.
It's ridiculous - it make me feel like cheating.
Hopefully something will be done about it in PCM11... but I'm not too optimistic seeing all the bugs and unsuccessful patches from this year.
Edited by wroblitz on 17-10-2010 09:33
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 17-10-2010 09:10
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World Champion
Posts: 10121
Joined: 01-05-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Raise the difficulty?
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| wroblitz |
Posted on 17-10-2010 09:41
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 289
Joined: 27-12-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Raise the difficulty for prologues, use 1.0.1.6 patch for hilly stages, 1.0.3.0 for breakaways and 1.0.4.1 for sprints, that's not how the game should work plus I'm pretty sure (if they're really set on 65) that on extreme level results will be quite simular (I'll check it on my next prologue) and what will you say then? "Crack the game files and program your own level"? Once more - that's not how the game should be made. |
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 17-10-2010 10:25
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4790
Joined: 06-12-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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I'm afraid it seems to be just another example of the mess Cyanide seem to have made of the game.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 16:48
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 17-10-2010 11:22
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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I simulate TTs and prologues. It may not be fun, but at least it gives realistic results. |
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| tsmoha |
Posted on 17-10-2010 11:25
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11819
Joined: 19-07-2010
PCM$: 300.00
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I always suck at TTs and Prologues (except playing with Andreas Klöden for some reason).. I didn't get the clue so far, winning a TT in 3D-Mode  Simulating these stages works fine, so I agree with CrueTrue.. |
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| roturn |
Posted on 17-10-2010 11:35
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Team Manager
Posts: 22246
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
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I never had such a weird result. In 99% of all TT`s and prologues the results are fine. Just TTT are crap.
Paris Nice 8km prologue result:
Spoiler 1 Tony Martin Team HTC - Columbia 11'23
2 Philippe Gilbert Liquigas-Doimo + 1
3 Juan Antonio Flecha Sky Professional Cycling Team + 8
4 Peter Sagan Liquigas-Doimo + 11
5 Sébastien Rosseler Team RadioShack + 12
6 Luis León Sánchez Gil Garmin - Transitions + 14
7 Heinrich Haussler Cervélo Test Team + 15
8 Benoît Vaugrenard FDJ + 16
9 Kevyn Ista Cofidis, le Credit en Ligne s.t.
10 David Millar Garmin - Transitions + 19
11 Lieuwe Westra Rabobank s.t.
12 Mikhail Ignatiev Team Katusha s.t.
13 Rui Alberto Fario Da Costa Caisse d'Epargne + 20
14 Jens Voigt Team Saxo Bank + 22
15 Bradley Wiggins Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
16 Andrei Kunitski Quick Step + 23
17 José Iván Gutiérrez Caisse d'Epargne s.t.
18 Andriy Grivko Astana + 27
19 Thomas Danielson Garmin - Transitions + 28
20 Sébastien Minard Cofidis, le Credit en Ligne s.t.
21 Jan Bakelants Omega Pharma-Lotto s.t.
22 Robert Hunter Garmin - Transitions s.t.
23 Tony Gallopin Cofidis, le Credit en Ligne s.t.
24 Adam Hansen Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
25 Marcel Sieberg Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
26 Niki Terpstra Team Milram s.t.
27 Michael Schär Cervélo Test Team s.t.
28 Peter Velits Team HTC - Columbia + 29
29 Frederik Willems Liquigas-Doimo s.t.
30 Patrick Gretsch Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
31 Alessandro Ballan Lampre-Farnese Vini s.t.
32 Marcel Wyss Cervélo Test Team + 30
33 Yannick Talabardon Saur - Sojasun + 31
34 William Bonnet Cofidis, le Credit en Ligne s.t.
35 Jan Ghyselinck Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
36 Fränk Schleck Team Saxo Bank s.t.
37 Jean-Christophe Péraud Omega Pharma-Lotto s.t.
38 Davide Malacarne Quick Step s.t.
39 Janez Brajkovič Team RadioShack + 32
40 Juan José Cobo Acebo Caisse d'Epargne s.t.
41 Linus Gerdemann Team Milram s.t.
42 Andrey Kashechkin Lampre-Farnese Vini s.t.
43 Beñat Intxausti Euskaltel - Euskadi s.t.
44 Nick Nuyens Liquigas-Doimo s.t.
45 David Le Lay Bbox Bouygues Telecom s.t.
46 Johan Vansummeren Garmin - Transitions + 33
47 Xavier Florencio Cervélo Test Team s.t.
48 Rick Flens Rabobank s.t.
49 Robert Gesink Rabobank s.t.
50 Markus Fothen Team Milram + 34
51 Kristijan Koren Liquigas-Doimo + 35
52 Paul Voß Team Milram s.t.
53 Kim Kirchen Team Katusha s.t.
54 Samuel Sánchez Euskaltel - Euskadi s.t.
55 Rasmus Guldhammer Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
56 Gianni Meersman FDJ s.t.
57 Pierrick Fédrigo Bbox Bouygues Telecom s.t.
58 Stuart O'Grady Team Saxo Bank s.t.
59 Markus Eichler Team Milram + 36
60 László Bodrogi Team Katusha s.t.
61 Yukiya Arashiro Bbox Bouygues Telecom s.t.
62 Nikolas Maes Quick Step s.t.
63 Daniel Moreno Omega Pharma-Lotto s.t.
64 Vladimir Karpets Team Katusha s.t.
65 Julien Fouchard Cofidis, le Credit en Ligne s.t.
66 Ivan Rovny Team RadioShack s.t.
67 Matteo Tosatto Quick Step s.t.
68 Lloyd Mondory Ag2r La Mondiale s.t.
69 Rinaldo Nocentini Ag2r La Mondiale + 37
70 Grega Bole Lampre-Farnese Vini s.t.
71 Nicolas Roche Ag2r La Mondiale s.t.
72 Thomas Voeckler Bbox Bouygues Telecom s.t.
73 Cyril Lemoine Saur - Sojasun s.t.
74 Stijn Vandenbergh Team Katusha + 39
75 Rubens Bertogliati Androni Giocattoli - Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni s.t.
76 Samuel Dumoulin Cofidis, le Credit en Ligne s.t.
77 Gerben Löwik Omega Pharma-Lotto s.t.
78 Roman Kireyev Astana s.t.
79 Yoann Offredo FDJ s.t.
80 Jurgen Van den Broeck Omega Pharma-Lotto + 40
81 Daniel Lloyd Cervélo Test Team s.t.
82 Björn Leukemans Rabobank s.t.
83 Benjamín Noval Euskaltel - Euskadi s.t.
84 Daniel Oss Liquigas-Doimo s.t.
85 Russell Downing Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
86 Óscar Freire Gómez Rabobank s.t.
87 Juan José Haedo Team Saxo Bank s.t.
88 Andy Schleck Team Saxo Bank s.t.
89 Staf Scheirlinckx Omega Pharma-Lotto s.t.
90 Gorka Verdugo Euskaltel - Euskadi + 41
91 Kurt Hovelijnck Quick Step s.t.
92 Jürgen Van De Walle Omega Pharma-Lotto s.t.
93 Jérémy Roy FDJ s.t.
94 Stephen Cummings Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
95 Marco Marzano Lampre-Farnese Vini + 42
96 Servais Knaven Team Milram s.t.
97 Tristan Valentin Cofidis, le Credit en Ligne s.t.
98 Jakob Fuglsang Team Saxo Bank + 43
99 Clément Lhotellerie Bbox Bouygues Telecom s.t.
100 Francisco Javier Aramendia Euskaltel - Euskadi s.t.
101 Laurent Mangel Saur - Sojasun s.t.
102 Geoffroy Lequatre Team RadioShack s.t.
103 Vladimir Efimkin Ag2r La Mondiale s.t.
104 Gregory Henderson Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
105 Mirco Lorenzetto Lampre-Farnese Vini s.t.
106 Nicolas Portal Sky Professional Cycling Team + 44
107 Maxim Iglinskiy Astana s.t.
108 Leonardo Bertagnolli Androni Giocattoli - Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni s.t.
109 Allan Davis Astana s.t.
110 Assan Bazayev Astana s.t.
111 Mikaël Chérel FDJ s.t.
112 Saïd Haddou Ag2r La Mondiale s.t.
113 Damien Gaudin Bbox Bouygues Telecom s.t.
114 Dmitriy Muravyev Team RadioShack s.t.
115 Iván Velasco Euskaltel - Euskadi s.t.
116 Lucas Schädlich Liquigas-Doimo s.t.
117 Pieter Weening Rabobank s.t.
118 Stefan Denifl Cervélo Test Team + 45
119 Daryl Impey Team RadioShack s.t.
120 Andreas Stauff Quick Step + 46
121 Leonardo Duque Team Saxo Bank s.t.
122 Jonathan Hivert Saur - Sojasun s.t.
123 Ben Hermans Team RadioShack s.t.
124 Cyril Bessy Saur - Sojasun + 47
125 Thomas Rohregger Team Milram s.t.
126 Sergey Klimov Team Katusha s.t.
127 Dominic Klemme Team Saxo Bank + 48
128 Andrea Grendene Lampre-Farnese Vini s.t.
129 Mathieu Perget Caisse d'Epargne s.t.
130 Luca Solari Androni Giocattoli - Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni s.t.
131 Anthony Roux FDJ s.t.
132 Mathieu Claude Caisse d'Epargne + 50
133 Mickaël Delage Omega Pharma-Lotto s.t.
134 Jérôme Cousin FDJ s.t.
135 Alexander Efimkin Ag2r La Mondiale s.t.
136 Denis Galimzyanov Team Katusha s.t.
137 Mathieu Drujon Caisse d'Epargne s.t.
138 Sergey Renev Astana s.t.
139 Juan Mauricio Soler Caisse d'Epargne + 51
140 Alberto Loddo Androni Giocattoli - Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni s.t.
141 Gabriel Rasch Cervélo Test Team s.t.
142 Wim Stroetinga Rabobank s.t.
143 Amets Txurruka Euskaltel - Euskadi s.t.
144 Christophe Brandt Quick Step + 52
145 David Arroyo Caisse d'Epargne s.t.
146 Guillaume Bonnafond Ag2r La Mondiale s.t.
147 Tim Peuker Team Milram s.t.
148 Francis Mourey FDJ s.t.
149 Stéphane Poulhiès Saur - Sojasun s.t.
150 Vicente Reynès Mimo Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
151 Luis Ángel Maté Androni Giocattoli - Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni s.t.
152 Julien Simon Saur - Sojasun s.t.
153 Jackson Rodríguez Androni Giocattoli - Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni s.t.
154 Luca Mazzanti Team Katusha s.t.
155 Kjell Carlström Sky Professional Cycling Team + 53
156 Mauricio Ardila Rabobank s.t.
157 Mickaël Buffaz Cofidis, le Credit en Ligne s.t.
158 Dmitriy Fofonov Astana + 54
159 Timothy Duggan Garmin - Transitions s.t.
160 Vincent Jérôme Bbox Bouygues Telecom s.t.
161 Trent Lowe Garmin - Transitions s.t.
162 Enrico Magazzini Lampre-Farnese Vini s.t.
163 René Mandri Ag2r La Mondiale + 55
164 Andrey Zeits Astana + 56
165 Julian Dean Garmin - Transitions s.t.
166 Edward King Cervélo Test Team s.t.
167 Francesco Gavazzi Lampre-Farnese Vini + 57
168 Romain Feillu Bbox Bouygues Telecom + 58
169 Addy Engels Quick Step + 59
170 Jacopo Guarnieri Liquigas-Doimo + 1'00
171 Davide Viganò Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
172 Andrea Piechele Androni Giocattoli - Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni s.t.
173 Romain Mathéou Saur - Sojasun s.t.
174 Thomas Bertolini Androni Giocattoli - Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni + 1'01
175 Mathieu Drouilly Euskaltel - Euskadi + 1'07
Looks quite realistic actually.
It`s the 2nd season, so some stats have changed. Millar and Danielson for example are worse than in 2010.
Edited by roturn on 17-10-2010 11:36
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| Ennyzor |
Posted on 17-10-2010 11:47
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Free Agent
Posts: 132
Joined: 22-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Well, those 4km prologues/tt always had wierd results. The previous years PCM, you could easily gain 10-20 seconds on a very short TT.
Not as bad in PCM2010 tho, at least not for me. Of course we have the 50km TTs where a 80 rider gains 5 mins on a player controlled rider with 75TT. |
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| roturn |
Posted on 17-10-2010 11:52
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Team Manager
Posts: 22246
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
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Ennyzor wrote:
Well, those 4km prologues/tt always had wierd results. The previous years PCM, you could easily gain 10-20 seconds on a very short TT.
Not as bad in PCM2010 tho, at least not for me. Of course we have the 50km TTs where a 80 rider gains 5 mins on a player controlled rider with 75TT.
Not that unrealistic.
In TdF Cancellara beated Leipheimer with 5`59, LL Sanchez 7`18, Rogers 7`56...
So this minute gaps are like in real just in GT`s for example.
In shorter races I never had that big time differences. Maybe 2-3minutes back if they are not in shape. |
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| wroblitz |
Posted on 18-10-2010 08:21
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 289
Joined: 27-12-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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As I thought increasing level doesn't change much. Here's my results on extreme with Saxo Bank on Tour de Romandie Prologue.
As you're saying probably the only solution is to simulate prologues (or leave your riders to AI in 3D mode). Fair enough, but then you have a game where you can't play prologues, you can't attack, riders are not fighting for intermediate sprints, sprinters are eighter blocked by air or stopping before the finish line... let's face it - this game is full crap and on top of that it crashes every 5 races.
Edited by wroblitz on 18-10-2010 08:22
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| roturn |
Posted on 18-10-2010 10:03
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Team Manager
Posts: 22246
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
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I try the whole time to get similar results but I just don`t get it.
I made a team with Cancellara, Martin, Boom and all good prologue riders and even then some other riders are in between.
Do you activate passive AI in the options for multiplayer or anything else multiplayer related?
Most of them are also for singleplayer even if it`s no in the text.
So I just deactivate the wind flag and that`s it`s x1 after attacks and crashes. |
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| oszkar |
Posted on 18-10-2010 11:49
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Junior Rider
Posts: 25
Joined: 20-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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a similar experience of mine:
https://pcmdaily.c...d_id=14425 |
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| wroblitz |
Posted on 19-10-2010 02:50
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 289
Joined: 27-12-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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roturn wrote:
I try the whole time to get similar results but I just don`t get it.
I made a team with Cancellara, Martin, Boom and all good prologue riders and even then some other riders are in between.
Do you activate passive AI in the options for multiplayer or anything else multiplayer related?
Most of them are also for singleplayer even if it`s no in the text.
So I just deactivate the wind flag and that`s it`s x1 after attacks and crashes.
I really don't know how come you couldn't get simular results with such a riders (normally 70 PRL is enough to be in top 10). On what percentage did you put them? Normally on such short TT's you need to put them around 75-80 to use up all energy and if you do you simply win.
I've followed your suggestion and checked my passive AI settings - it was on, I turned it off, played first prologues and... got first 4 places, so I guess that's not it. |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 19-10-2010 02:58
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World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
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wroblitz wrote:
As I thought increasing level doesn't change much. Here's my results on extreme with Saxo Bank on Tour de Romandie Prologue.
As you're saying probably the only solution is to simulate prologues (or leave your riders to AI in 3D mode). Fair enough, but then you have a game where you can't play prologues, you can't attack, riders are not fighting for intermediate sprints, sprinters are eighter blocked by air or stopping before the finish line... let's face it - this game is full crap and on top of that it crashes every 5 races.
Don't forget that it was nearly perfect on 1.0.0.0 gameplay wise. It was the scouted riders and random crashes that ruined the earlier patches.
If they could somehow combine the earlier patches mountain AI, Patch 1.0.4.1.'s sprinting and hilly stages, I think we would have a very good game.
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| roturn |
Posted on 19-10-2010 09:27
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Team Manager
Posts: 22246
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
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On the Paris Nice prologue I had a 6th with LL Sanchez and a 10th with Millar, then around 20th with Danielson and Kessiakoff. Other riders were almost last. I managed to have both bars empty at the same time.
But I rebuild the PN prologue by myself, so I am almost on the Catalunya prologue, so I will write my result again then. |
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| wroblitz |
Posted on 19-10-2010 22:29
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 289
Joined: 27-12-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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roturn wrote:
On the Paris Nice prologue I had a 6th with LL Sanchez and a 10th with Millar, then around 20th with Danielson and Kessiakoff. Other riders were almost last. I managed to have both bars empty at the same time.
But I rebuild the PN prologue by myself, so I am almost on the Catalunya prologue, so I will write my result again then.
It make me feel like we're playing two different games. I believe you'll get similar results on Tour of Catalunya. Anyway I just wonder what's wrong with my (and many others' ) game and in fact what's the percentage of people grabbing few first places in prologues and people getting results like yourself.
So if you're playing prologues feel free to share your experience with them.
Edited by wroblitz on 19-10-2010 22:30
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