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PCM.daily » Pro Cycling Manager 2006-2020 » Pro Cycling Manager 2010
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Game mechanic problem (Mountains, energybars, results)
Mads_0
Top  #1 Print Post
Posted on 29-08-2010 11:19
I've recored 3 videos showing what in my opinion is one of the biggest flaws of PCM2010. Riders nut being able to use up their energy.

When your red bar runs out(attackbar) your rider will settle in at a heartrate in the low 170's and refuse to open the taps and use up his yellow. Below videos will show what i'm talking about.

(all videos can be viewed in full HD so youc an see effort, heartrate etc.)

In the first video we see my riders doing what they're supposed to do. They close the gap, as i've asked them, and still with red bar left, their heartrates and their speed will increase as i up their effort.


Here, we'll see the problem starting to show. With no more red bar, Anton, even tho' his effort is set way higher than Sancez, will not pass him and set a higher pace. At this stage, nothing will work - you can let your rider follow whoever is in front of him, or let him drop. Note that their heartrates, after the red bar running out, have settles in the low 170's. No matter what you do at this stage, the rider will not up his effort.


And in the last video the problem is even more evident. Even though Sanchez has energy to spare, and is set to effortcursor and 99%, he will not up his speed or effort. His heartrate still sets at the low 170's.



This IMO is one of the key reasons the AI seems weird. This problem is also just as relevant when sprinting. As sprinttrain will slow down considerably after using up the red bar, taking the lead rider off will increase speed again(assuming that the 2nd rider still has red bar left). I actually like this in sprints, it works, for setting up a train and realism. The only problem is, in a GT, your captain will be in great shape, and will often not lose any red bar at all unless you try to murder him by having him pull hard. Great shape, probably guarded and at the front of the peleton = lots of topspeed for the finish. I think this is a huge contributor to the messed up results.

On a mountain, and difficult hills, smaller groups are unable to form because the riders are "stuck" together unable to spend their energy. The guys doing the pulling are usually the strongest riders, and will not regenerate red bar because they're doing the work. The riders behind them are unable to act untill they regenerate a little red. When they do, the front riders will actually slow down, to let the rider behind with red bar, pass and relay. 9 times out of 10, this will fail because the rider coming from behind will have depleted the speck of red he had. Resulting in big groups of riders unable to make the difference because noone can perform a real attack, and noone can use their yellow to set the pace too high for the others. The only way to distance yourself, is if your attack takes you longer than the other guys, and everyone is out of red - OR - pull hard(early) on effort while you still have red, and hope you distance yourself enough to fend off the attacks.

If you look at this from a realism standpoint, it's not so bad. If this is the way it's intended to work - fine - it's not as fun, but it kinda works. But you might aswell remove the yellow bar alltogether, because at the moment it serves no purpose. Or.. that's not true... lose your yellow on a mountain and you'll fall out of the peleton.. so it does serve some purpose. In 09 it worked perfectly - red for accelerations, yellow for short effort/top speed. In 10, your riders just feel "gimped"

/2cents
 
Mads_0
Top  #2 Print Post
Posted on 29-08-2010 12:04
Here's the exported results from the stage - i don't think anyone will think these are horrible.

Rank Name Team Time
1 Alberto Contador Astana 5h12'31
2 Andy Schleck Team Saxo Bank s.t.
3 Denis Menchov Rabobank s.t.
4 Fränk Schleck Team Saxo Bank s.t.
5 Igor Antón Euskaltel - Euskadi s.t.
6 Samuel Sánchez Euskaltel - Euskadi + 23
7 Andreas Klöden Team RadioShack + 1'12
8 Juan Mauricio Soler Caisse d'Epargne s.t.
9 Ivan Basso Liquigas - Doimo s.t.
10 Robert Gesink Rabobank s.t.
11 Cadel Evans BMC Racing Team + 1'30
12 Carlos Sastre Cervélo Test Team s.t.
13 John Gadret AG2R La Mondiale + 1'59
14 Christophe Le Mével Française des Jeux s.t.
15 Jurgen Van den Broeck Omega Pharma - Lotto s.t.
16 Levi Leipheimer Team RadioShack + 2'28
17 Jean-Christophe Peraud Omega Pharma - Lotto + 2'39
18 Christian Vande Velde Garmin - Transitions s.t.
19 Bradley Wiggins Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
20 Sandy Casar Française des Jeux s.t.
21 Roman Kreuziger Liquigas - Doimo s.t.
22 Chris Horner Team RadioShack s.t.
23 Christophe Moreau Caisse d'Epargne s.t.
24 Janez Brajkovič Team RadioShack s.t.
25 Vladimir Efimkin AG2R La Mondiale s.t.
26 Ryder Hesjedal Garmin - Transitions s.t.
27 Alexandre Vinokourov Astana s.t.
28 Kevin Seeldraeyers Quick·Step s.t.
29 Bauke Mollema Rabobank s.t.
30 David Arroyo Caisse d'Epargne s.t.
31 Haimar Zubeldia Team RadioShack s.t.
32 Kevin De Weert Quick·Step s.t.
33 Sylwester Szmyd Liquigas - Doimo s.t.
34 Yaroslav Popovych Team RadioShack + 3'08
35 Lance Armstrong Team RadioShack s.t.
36 Michael Rogers Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
37 Maxime Monfort Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
38 Robert Kiserlovski Liquigas - Doimo s.t.
39 Chris Anker Sørensen Team Saxo Bank + 3'16
40 Tony Martin Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
41 Jakob Fuglsang Team Saxo Bank + 3'24
42 Kim Kirchen Team Katusha + 4'12
43 Rein Taaramäe Cofidis, le crédit en ligne + 4'28
44 Philip Deignan Cervélo Test Team + 5'16
45 Egoi Martínez Euskaltel - Euskadi + 5'24
46 Sérgio Paulinho Team RadioShack s.t.
47 Jesús Hernández Astana s.t.
48 Romain Sicard Euskaltel - Euskadi s.t.
49 Alexsandr Dyachenko Astana s.t.
50 Carlos Barredo Quick·Step s.t.
51 Thomas Löfkvist Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
52 Paolo Tiralongo Astana s.t.
53 Linus Gerdemann Team Milram + 5'32
54 Vasil Kiryienka Caisse d'Epargne s.t.
55 Yury Trofimov Bbox Bouygues Télécom s.t.
56 Óscar Pereiro Astana s.t.
57 Branislau Samoilau Quick·Step s.t.
58 Gorka Verdugo Euskaltel - Euskadi s.t.
59 Daniel Martin Garmin - Transitions s.t.
60 Charles Wegelius Omega Pharma - Lotto s.t.
61 Christian Knees Team Milram s.t.
62 Fredrik Kessiakoff Garmin - Transitions + 5'40
63 Steven Kruijswijk Rabobank s.t.
64 Oliver Zaugg Liquigas - Doimo s.t.
65 Amets Txurruka Euskaltel - Euskadi s.t.
66 Beñat Intxausti Euskaltel - Euskadi s.t.
67 Christophe Riblon AG2R La Mondiale s.t.
68 Giampaolo Caruso Team Katusha s.t.
69 David López Caisse d'Epargne s.t.
70 Hubert Dupont AG2R La Mondiale + 5'48
71 Markus Fothen Team Milram s.t.
72 Juan José Oroz Euskaltel - Euskadi s.t.
73 Juan José Cobo Caisse d'Epargne s.t.
74 Dimitri Champion AG2R La Mondiale s.t.
75 Bram Tankink Rabobank s.t.
76 Vladimir Karpets Team Katusha + 5'56
77 Matthias Frank BMC Racing Team s.t.
78 Francesco Bellotti Liquigas - Doimo s.t.
79 Evgeni Petrov Team Katusha s.t.
80 Cyril Dessel AG2R La Mondiale + 6'12
81 David De la Fuente Astana + 6'20
82 Thomas Rohregger Team Milram s.t.
83 Iván Velasco Euskaltel - Euskadi s.t.
84 Benjamín Noval Astana + 6'28
85 Nicki Sørensen Team Saxo Bank + 6'36
86 Dario Cataldo Quick·Step s.t.
87 David Zabriskie Garmin - Transitions + 6'44
88 Valerio Agnoli Liquigas - Doimo + 6'52
89 Jussi Veikkanen Française des Jeux s.t.
90 Anders Lund Team Saxo Bank s.t.
91 Francis De Greef Omega Pharma - Lotto s.t.
92 Johann Tschopp Bbox Bouygues Télécom + 7'00
93 Gustav Erik Larsson Team Saxo Bank s.t.
94 Sylvain Chavanel Quick·Step s.t.
95 Serge Pauwels Sky Professional Cycling Team + 7'08
96 Richie Porte Team Saxo Bank s.t.
97 Christophe Brandt Omega Pharma - Lotto s.t.
98 Rémy Di Gregorio Française des Jeux s.t.
99 Stefan Denifl Cervélo Test Team s.t.
100 Scott Nydam BMC Racing Team + 7'16
101 David Millar Garmin - Transitions s.t.
102 Dries Devenyns Quick·Step s.t.
103 Steve Morabito BMC Racing Team + 7'24
104 Rasmus Guldhammer Team HTC - Columbia + 7'48
105 Alexandre Botcharov Team Katusha + 15'48
106 Eduard Vorganov Team Katusha + 16'04
107 Mauricio Ardila Rabobank s.t.
108 Kanstantsin Siutsou Team HTC - Columbia + 16'12
109 Rui Costa Caisse d'Epargne + 16'20
110 Thibaut Pinot Française des Jeux + 16'28
111 Grischa Niermann Rabobank s.t.
112 Jérôme Pineau Quick·Step s.t.
113 Fabian Wegmann Team Milram + 16'44
114 Jelle Vanendert Omega Pharma - Lotto + 16'52
115 Dario Cioni Sky Professional Cycling Team + 17'00
116 José Luis Arrieta AG2R La Mondiale + 17'08
117 Johannes Fröhlinger Team Milram s.t.
118 Matthieu Ladagnous Française des Jeux + 17'16
119 Sylvain Calzati Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
120 Alexandr Kolobnev Team Katusha s.t.
121 Volodymir Gustov Cervélo Test Team s.t.
122 Florian Stalder BMC Racing Team + 17'24
123 Jérémy Roy Française des Jeux s.t.
124 Arnold Jeanneson Caisse d'Epargne s.t.
125 Simon Gerrans Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
126 Stijn Devolder Quick·Step + 17'32
127 Danny Pate Garmin - Transitions s.t.
128 Alexandre Moos BMC Racing Team s.t.
129 Anthony Charteau Bbox Bouygues Télécom + 17'40
130 Marcus Burghardt BMC Racing Team s.t.
131 Jeff Louder BMC Racing Team + 17'48
132 Alessandro Ballan BMC Racing Team s.t.
133 Guillaume Bonnafond AG2R La Mondiale + 31'40
134 Maxime Bouet AG2R La Mondiale s.t.
135 Marcel Wyss Cervélo Test Team + 31'56
136 Tony Gallopin Cofidis, le crédit en ligne + 32'04
137 José Joaquín Rojas Caisse d'Epargne + 32'12
138 Mario Aerts Omega Pharma - Lotto + 32'20
139 Jurgen Van Goolen Omega Pharma - Lotto + 32'28
140 Philippe Gilbert Omega Pharma - Lotto s.t.
141 Jean-Eudes Demaret Cofidis, le crédit en ligne + 32'44
142 Xavier Florencio Cervélo Test Team s.t.
143 Thor Hushovd Cervélo Test Team s.t.
144 Daniele Bennati Liquigas - Doimo + 33'00
145 Steve Chainel Bbox Bouygues Télécom s.t.
146 Benoît Vaugrenard Française des Jeux s.t.
147 Joaquín Novoa Cervélo Test Team + 33'08
148 Sébastien Minard Cofidis, le crédit en ligne s.t.
149 Edvald Boasson Hagen Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
150 Björn Schröder Team Milram + 33'16
151 Mickaël Buffaz Cofidis, le crédit en ligne s.t.
152 Gerald Ciolek Team Milram + 33'24
153 Sébastien Turgot Bbox Bouygues Télécom s.t.
154 Franck Bouyer Bbox Bouygues Télécom s.t.
155 Gert Steegmans Team RadioShack + 33'32
156 Yukiya Arashiro Bbox Bouygues Télécom s.t.
157 Allan Davis Astana s.t.
158 Óscar Freire Rabobank + 33'40
159 Stéphane Augé Cofidis, le crédit en ligne + 45'16
160 Arnaud Labbe Cofidis, le crédit en ligne + 45'24
161 Guillaume Blot Cofidis, le crédit en ligne s.t.
162 Matthew Goss Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
163 Robert Hunter Garmin - Transitions + 45'40
164 Robert Förster Team Milram + 45'56
165 Mark Renshaw Team HTC - Columbia + 46'04
166 André Greipel Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
167 Mark Cavendish Team HTC - Columbia s.t.
168 Freddy Bichot Bbox Bouygues Télécom + 46'36
169 Tyler Farrar Garmin - Transitions + 46'44
170 Ben Swift Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
171 Juan José Haedo Team Saxo Bank s.t.
172 Greg Henderson Sky Professional Cycling Team s.t.
173 Saïd Haddou Bbox Bouygues Télécom + 46'52
174 Graeme Brown Rabobank s.t.
175 Kalle Kriit Cofidis, le crédit en ligne + 47'08
176 Theo Bos Cervélo Test Team + 47'16
177 Robbie McEwen Team Katusha s.t.
178 Danilo Napolitano Team Katusha + 47'24
179 Francesco Chicchi Liquigas - Doimo + 47'32
180 Yauheni Hutarovich Française des Jeux s.t.
 
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