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How to win a TT
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 21-08-2010 00:13
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3648
Joined: 31-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Hi.
Even though my rider has 79 in TT and prologue stats around 81 I get beaten by guys who have only around 74-75. I've tried just letting him ride in the automatic setting and reducing his effort to around 61-62 so that the green and yellow bar follow each other perfectly, at least almost. But whatever I do, I can't seem to win, not even get a decent result. I usually end up losing by 30 seconds +/-.
At the moment I'm riding in the Tour de Murcia or something (5 stage race in early February). I'm in 3rd place, only 6 seconds behind, with the TT and a pretty flat stage left. Because of the games unability to create gaps, there are 48 riders who are less then 30 seconds behind. Since I can't count on winning the final sprint in the last stage (my leader is a decent sprinter, but I don't need to tell you about the outcomes in the sprints) I have to either win or get a top-3 finish in the TT to have a chance of winning the race.
So bassicly, are there any good tactics for TT's?
PS: I know it's cheating to play a stage over and over untill you win, but PCM has kinda forced me to do it, sadly.
PPS: I dont think that form has to much to say, the other riders have raced about 3-4 days before this. |
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| DJP19 |
Posted on 21-08-2010 00:39
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 993
Joined: 07-05-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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https://www.youtub...ion_580769
this might help |
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 21-08-2010 00:44
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3648
Joined: 31-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Thanks alot. I tried having both bars dissapear at the same rate, but still got beaten by people who had about 70... |
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 21-08-2010 01:33
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3648
Joined: 31-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Okey, what the hell! My riders TT-stats are 79 in TT and 81 in prologue, still he is getting humiliated by Brajkovic (dont know how to spell it). The stage is 22km with a "checkpoint" at 10 km. There is a tiny incline up to the checkpoint, the gradient is never above 1%. It goes down with about -1% from 10km - ca. 16km. I've tried seveal ways:
1. I just let him ride on "automatic" (effort at 65) the entire stage. He came in 1:36 behind
2. I let him go on 70 the entire stage. At 10km he was 22 seconds ahead of Brajkovic, but he ran out of energy with ca. 2 km to go. He ended up 28 seconds behind Brajkovic
3.I let him start with 67 up untill 10km. At this point he and Brajkovic clock in on the same time. When he starts the miniscule decent I raise him to 69-70. His green bar was a little bit bigger then the yellow one, but it evened out perfectly. In the end he came in 28 seconds behind again...
It seems to me that the AI-controlled riders always have an amazing finish? The biggest difference between my rider and Brajkovic is that he only hs about 70 in flat, where my guy has 78. The fitness shouldn't be a problem either; Brajkovic has 4 days behind him, whilst my rider has 10.
If anyone has some form of advice that would be great. The reason that I refuse to lose this race is due to the inhability to create gaps in the mountains. |
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| depappie |
Posted on 21-08-2010 01:44
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Stagiare
Posts: 249
Joined: 20-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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maybe the computer riders are in better form than you riders, also i notice computer riders wearing leaders jersey seem to find something extra in time trails.
Also i think the computer is good at adjusting effort for uphill and more importantly imo downhill. |
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| Tuco the Ugly |
Posted on 21-08-2010 02:13
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Domestique
Posts: 707
Joined: 25-06-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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cactus-jack wrote:
It seems to me that the AI-controlled riders always have an amazing finish? The biggest difference between my rider and Brajkovic is that he only hs about 70 in flat, where my guy has 78. The fitness shouldn't be a problem either; Brajkovic has 4 days behind him, whilst my rider has 10.
Race days aren't the only thing that matter in fitness. Brajkovic could be very high in training fitness, and have an overall in the mid 80s. Conversely, having 10 races days doesn't mean much if your training fitness is low.
If you really want to see Brajkovic's total fitness compared to your rider, check in dyn_cyclist in an editor to see. |
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 21-08-2010 12:27
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3648
Joined: 31-07-2009
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My rider has about 71-72 in fitness at the moment. I understand what you mean, but I just think that if this is the case then the fitness has a bit to much to say.
Also keep in mind that I'm being beaten by riders who do not have stats above 71. Even though fitness is important, no way is it that important |
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| E_Hagen |
Posted on 21-08-2010 13:19
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1067
Joined: 10-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Who is your rider? |
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 21-08-2010 13:35
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3648
Joined: 31-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Created rider |
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| Starch27 |
Posted on 21-08-2010 13:38
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Junior Rider
Posts: 47
Joined: 20-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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In my game Menchov (81TT) beat Cancellara (85Flat, 85TT) by 1.44 at Final TT of Tour De France, only because Menchov has great fitness. Cancellara was only 5th behind Menchov, Evans, Contador and Leiphemer. Tony Martin (79Flat, 84TT) finished 12. I think it's so unrealistic.
Edited by Starch27 on 21-08-2010 13:39
Sorry for my bad English
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| RdJ |
Posted on 21-08-2010 14:03
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Junior Rider
Posts: 38
Joined: 09-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Starch27 wrote:
In my game Menchov (81TT) beat Cancellara (85Flat, 85TT) by 1.44 at Final TT of Tour De France, only because Menchov has great fitness. Cancellara was only 5th behind Menchov, Evans, Contador and Leiphemer. Tony Martin (79Flat, 84TT) finished 12. I think it's so unrealistic.
If that happens, the influence of fitness is way too big. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 11-12-2025 17:13
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| Anonymer |
Posted on 21-08-2010 14:08
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Domestique
Posts: 484
Joined: 20-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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RdJ wrote:
If that happens, the influence of fitness is way too big.
It isn't. In 2009 Contador won the Tdf tt and Menchov ist normaly even better in tt. the fitness influence ist one of the best things in pcm. |
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 21-08-2010 14:48
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3648
Joined: 31-07-2009
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I am using PCM Dailys Expansion Pack 1.0.3.0
There the TT, which is on the 4th stage, is 22 km |
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| Roo |
Posted on 21-08-2010 15:00
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Stagiare
Posts: 218
Joined: 15-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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The fitness should make quite a difference. It's not like the best TT'ers get great results all throughout the season (see Wiggins in this years tour). If Cancellara is on form, he'll beat anybody, but when not, worse TT'ers will beat him (Martin in Suisse, Contador in the tour last year etc.). There are numorous instances like these every year.
Saying fitness has too much influence is nonsense
Edit: Other attributes have a say as well. Resistance is important for TT's, as well as Flat, Mountain, Hill, Downhill depending on the terrain. And if you're playing on hard/extreme, the AI will get bonuses, so they'll actually have better skills (or you'll have worse, can't remember) than it appears
Edited by Roo on 21-08-2010 15:04
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| Starch27 |
Posted on 21-08-2010 17:06
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Junior Rider
Posts: 47
Joined: 20-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Roo wrote:
If Cancellara is on form, he'll beat anybody, but when not, worse TT'ers will beat him (Martin in Suisse, Contador in the tour last year etc.).
Cancellara beat Martin in Suisse in another TT stage, he loses 27 kms long hilly TT with 17 seconds gap, because he started after rain and Martin started when weather was fine and road was clean. In Tour 2009 Contador win 41kms TT with 2nd category climb (6% overall). Cancellara was behind only 3seconds gap. If he started Giro he also loses Kronplatz TT. From the start of 2008 season Cancellara loses only 2 long hilly TT and never lose on flat.
Edited by Starch27 on 21-08-2010 17:07
Sorry for my bad English
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 21-08-2010 17:12
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Team Manager
Posts: 31706
Joined: 08-03-2007
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It's not like the best TT'ers get great results all throughout the season (see Wiggins in this years tour).
Not the greatest example, since it was the weather which put paid to Wiggins hopes of doing particularly well, in both of the tour's tour time trials.
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| Roo |
Posted on 21-08-2010 17:13
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Stagiare
Posts: 218
Joined: 15-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Starch27 wrote:
Roo wrote:
If Cancellara is on form, he'll beat anybody, but when not, worse TT'ers will beat him (Martin in Suisse, Contador in the tour last year etc.).
Cancellara beat Martin in Suisse in another TT stage, he loses 27 kms long hilly TT with 17 seconds gap, because he started after rain and Martin started when weather was fine and road was clean. In Tour 2009 Contador win 41kms TT with 2nd category climb (6% overall). Cancellara was behind only 3seconds gap. If he started Giro he also loses Kronplatz TT. From the start of 2008 season Cancellara loses only 2 long hilly TT and never lose on flat.
But those are examples where Cancellara was cloe to top form anyway, so even a small dip in form, will make him lose out on a couple of guys.
Edit: When on worse, but still not exactly crap form, he'll get beaten by more riders:
11th in Romandie prologue 2009
5th in California TT 2008
9th in Catalunya Prologue 2008
5th in Tour de France TT 2008
All in races where he'll have built up some form to not totally suck, but still not good enough to beat guys, he'd eat for breakfast when on form. Tbh, he's a rare specimen, but with most other riders there'll be TT's in every year, where they'll be anonymous if not on form (eg. Wiggins this Tour)
I'm still interested in what difficulty the guys playing on, because whereas your tactics can make up for AI bonuses on regular stages, it's very hard to use tactics to beat the AI in TT's
Edited by Roo on 21-08-2010 17:23
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| Starch27 |
Posted on 21-08-2010 23:43
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Junior Rider
Posts: 47
Joined: 20-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Roo wrote:
Starch27 wrote:
Roo wrote:
If Cancellara is on form, he'll beat anybody, but when not, worse TT'ers will beat him (Martin in Suisse, Contador in the tour last year etc.).
Cancellara beat Martin in Suisse in another TT stage, he loses 27 kms long hilly TT with 17 seconds gap, because he started after rain and Martin started when weather was fine and road was clean. In Tour 2009 Contador win 41kms TT with 2nd category climb (6% overall). Cancellara was behind only 3seconds gap. If he started Giro he also loses Kronplatz TT. From the start of 2008 season Cancellara loses only 2 long hilly TT and never lose on flat.
But those are examples where Cancellara was cloe to top form anyway, so even a small dip in form, will make him lose out on a couple of guys.
Edit: When on worse, but still not exactly crap form, he'll get beaten by more riders:
11th in Romandie prologue 2009
5th in California TT 2008
9th in Catalunya Prologue 2008
5th in Tour de France TT 2008
All in races where he'll have built up some form to not totally suck, but still not good enough to beat guys, he'd eat for breakfast when on form. Tbh, he's a rare specimen, but with most other riders there'll be TT's in every year, where they'll be anonymous if not on form (eg. Wiggins this Tour)
I'm still interested in what difficulty the guys playing on, because whereas your tactics can make up for AI bonuses on regular stages, it's very hard to use tactics to beat the AI in TT's
I played on hard, but Cancellara and Menchov was AI riders. Today I played all TT's in the game on "stage mode"(training before Cyanide fixed bugs ). Cancellara was unbeatable with fixed 89 fitness. He loses only at Kronplatz, but it was predictable. But with random fitness (I tried to make <85) he lost many long and hilly TT to Contador, Leiphemer, Martin, Brajkovic and Larsson.
Sorry for my bad English
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 22-08-2010 12:39
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3648
Joined: 31-07-2009
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I suppose that Brajkovics fitness is just to good. I can stand to lose, I'm not that type of guy who plays every stage over and over untill I win it The only reason why I just dont want to lose here is because of that fact that every stage ended up in a mass sprint. The 2nd and 3rd stage had really hard climbs in them, so...
I guess I'm doomed to lose it then. |
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 22-08-2010 12:50
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4726
Joined: 06-12-2006
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I generally simulate the TT stages as I feel the AI cheats in exactly the same way it does in Super Mario Kart.
Best technique I always found was make sure your first 7 riders post really crappy times. The times the AI sets then are nearly always slower than if you'd done well, thereby giving you a better chance of winning with a decent performance.
Alternatively, simulate. |
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