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Has a GT to ... ?
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| Juan |
Posted on 16-05-2010 11:27
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- travel through foreign countries (such as USA for Giro, Netherlands, ...) ?
- be raced on gravel or paved roads ?
I personally think it's of no use to go to foreign countries, unless during one or two stages, and unless these one or two stages are raced on decent roads, and finally unless it's a borderland (such as Switzerland, or Luxembourg for France).
As for gravel roads, I'd say that GC favourites usually don't ride Roubaix or Strade Bianche, so that's a bit of cynism from the organisers to let non-specialists ride on such roads, just in order to get some drama or suspense.
GT is Mountain+Sprint+TT, not Mud+Bad luck+Crashes+Gravel+Pavement+...
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| Deda |
Posted on 16-05-2010 11:59
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opinions are like assholes, everybody has one 
If offense is the best defence, does it mean that defence is the worst defence?
If I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord will delete my browser history.
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| kumazan |
Posted on 16-05-2010 12:00
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- travel through foreign countries (such as USA for Giro, Netherlands, ...) ?
No, unless it's a neighboring country. But, going to foreign countries = $$$$$. And it's no secret that cycling needs money.
- be raced on gravel or paved roads ?
I don't see it as a bad thing, as long as it's just one stage, and not excessively insane. Crashes happens in wet descents as well, and luck is something a rider needs to win a GT (remember when Beloki fell, and Armstrong miraculously dodged him and avoided to fall?).
Edited by kumazan on 16-05-2010 12:02
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 16-05-2010 12:04
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Of you're going to call it "Tour of XXXX", with XXXX being a country name, then either you stay inside the borders, either it loses the meaning of its name. Riding right outside the borderlands still makes it a tour, say an external tour instead of an internal one, so it's acceptable, given it's neither too far, nor too much.
But USA for Giro or even Netherlands for whatever GT ? That's ludicrous...
Now, as for cobbles, gravel, mud, etc. All that's part of cycling, so I've got no problem with it. I'd say a GT should reflect more or less the roads or the cycling competition roads of the home country, so it'd make no sense to have a bunch of heavily cobbled stages in a GT, but just a tad bit here or there is ok.
Mud is a bit the same, although I have no clue what Italian roads are normally like.
What we shouldn't really see, though, is an artificial suspense, caused by stupidly dangerous roads that randomly take favourites out of contest. The sole purpose of getting more drama with those dangerous roads is a bit sick in my opinion. On another hand Spanish motorways are not that great either... |
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| Juan |
Posted on 16-05-2010 12:25
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Aquarius wrote:
Of you're going to call it "Tour of XXXX", with XXXX being a country name, then either you stay inside the borders, either it loses the meaning of its name. Riding right outside the borderlands still makes it a tour, say an external tour instead of an internal one, so it's acceptable, given it's neither too far, nor too much.
But USA for Giro or even Netherlands for whatever GT ? That's ludicrous...
Now, as for cobbles, gravel, mud, etc. All that's part of cycling, so I've got no problem with it. I'd say a GT should reflect more or less the roads or the cycling competition roads of the home country, so it'd make no sense to have a bunch of heavily cobbled stages in a GT, but just a tad bit here or there is ok.
Mud is a bit the same, although I have no clue what Italian roads are normally like.
What we shouldn't really see, though, is an artificial suspense, caused by stupidly dangerous roads that randomly take favourites out of contest. The sole purpose of getting more drama with those dangerous roads is a bit sick in my opinion. On another hand Spanish motorways are not that great either...
It's also my opinion.
PS : nice to see you Aquarius
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Posted on 24-11-2024 15:06
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| Johan92 |
Posted on 16-05-2010 13:23
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Two stages in Netherlands don't make the Giro to a Tour of Europe or whatever.
Edited by Johan92 on 16-05-2010 13:24
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| Bosskardo |
Posted on 16-05-2010 14:17
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1- stages in neighbouring countries are ok if they add sth interesting to the tour (not so sure about this years Giro) but I like GT's to start/finish in their home country.
2-yes. If the winners of GT's call themselves the best overall riders then lets see them prove it.
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| khris |
Posted on 16-05-2010 14:37
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I don't mind a few stages abroad, preferrably in neighbouring countries, but you have to go where the money is when times are bad. Hopefully without losing the identity of the race...
As for gravel or pavé, I don't see why there shouldn't be a stage or two with it, it has surely made this Giro interesting before the mountains. No more than that, though. Everything in moderation, that's my motto. Ok, maybe it's really "Nuke the site from orbit - It's the only way to make sure.", but that doesn't really apply here... 
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| JDC |
Posted on 16-05-2010 14:46
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Bosskardo wrote:
2-yes. If the winners of GT's call themselves the best overall riders then lets see them prove it.
I agree. In the Giro a lot of GC favourites had a good result on that stage. If you look at the top ten, then you'll see there are a lot of big names in there, with Evans, Vino, Cunego, Garzelli, Pinotti and Scarponi. They wanted to get a good place in the GC and they did it in that stage, mud or no mud. |
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| Juan |
Posted on 16-05-2010 17:01
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JDC wrote:
Bosskardo wrote:
2-yes. If the winners of GT's call themselves the best overall riders then lets see them prove it.
I agree. In the Giro a lot of GC favourites had a good result on that stage. If you look at the top ten, then you'll see there are a lot of big names in there, with Evans, Vino, Cunego, Garzelli, Pinotti and Scarponi. They wanted to get a good place in the GC and they did it in that stage, mud or no mud.
I think we'll maybe have to talk again in July when Tour passes through Arenberg, and if Contador, Armstrong or whoever crashes badly.
As for Strade Bianche, I think it's easier to ride on gravel compared to pavé.
If there was a stage using Ronde route, then things would be hugely different, and you wouldn't see that top 10 in front. 
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| Setzel |
Posted on 16-05-2010 17:07
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well i can easily bet that tdf stage that will be on pave if normal weather the leaders will neutralize themselvs and probably no crashes , if rains then we got a hell of a stage.
Eating my daily Breakfast at 9 pm
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| Juan |
Posted on 16-05-2010 17:13
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Setzel wrote:
well i can easily bet that tdf stage that will be on pave if normal weather the leaders will neutralize themselvs and probably no crashes , if rains then we got a hell of a stage.
It's just the fact that on pavé, a non-specialist doesn't know how to handle his bike, and with the speed of peletons nowadays ... everything can happen sadly
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| Bosskardo |
Posted on 16-05-2010 17:17
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Juan wrote:
As for Strade Bianche, I think it's easier to ride on gravel compared to pavé.
If there was a stage using Ronde route, then things would be hugely different, and you wouldn't see that top 10 in front.
I think it depends on the lenght of the climbs. The cravel climbs in Giro were quite long but cobble ones are usually short and steep.
And I think in Strade Bianche if it were a dry weather, the GC guys would have found it harder. The soft roads made it easier for light guys, thats why the climbers were good at that.
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| Setzel |
Posted on 16-05-2010 17:20
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Juan wrote:
Setzel wrote:
well i can easily bet that tdf stage that will be on pave if normal weather the leaders will neutralize themselvs and probably no crashes , if rains then we got a hell of a stage.
It's just the fact that on pavé, a non-specialist doesn't know how to handle his bike, and with the speed of peletons nowadays ... everything can happen sadly
That's why every GT contender for TdF trained for paved , so i will stick to my suposition that if the weather is good the contenders will be on the same group
Eating my daily Breakfast at 9 pm
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| Juan |
Posted on 16-05-2010 17:22
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Setzel wrote:
Juan wrote:
Setzel wrote:
well i can easily bet that tdf stage that will be on pave if normal weather the leaders will neutralize themselvs and probably no crashes , if rains then we got a hell of a stage.
It's just the fact that on pavé, a non-specialist doesn't know how to handle his bike, and with the speed of peletons nowadays ... everything can happen sadly
That's why every GT contender for TdF trained for paved , so i will stick to my suposition that if the weather is good the contenders will be on the same group
Hope their training will be enough to avoid crashes
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| Smowz |
Posted on 16-05-2010 17:32
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The bottom line is that there are three Grand Tours.
Tour de France, Vuelta d'Espana and the Giro d'Italia. I cannot see another race managing to rival their status as Grand Tours. Whilst cycling is very popular in France, Spain and Italy and a number of great riders in the peleton come from those countries to limit the tours to those three countries is a bit harsh on the others. Also slightly shortsighted.
Sometimes it is a case of logistics, creating stages in the Pyrennees, Dolomites and Alps for example that avoid travelling over border would perhaps limit the stage profiles. But mainly its about expanding the appeal and as has been mentioned before increasing revenue.
The fan interest created by the Tour de France departing in London was amazing as I think starting the Giro will be in Washington.
I also think mixing things up a bit with a stage over differing terrain like cobbles or strade bianchi gives cycle fans something different to observe. |
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| Juan |
Posted on 16-05-2010 17:41
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Smowz wrote:
The bottom line is that there are three Grand Tours.
Tour de France, Vuelta d'Espana and the Giro d'Italia. I cannot see another race managing to rival their status as Grand Tours. Whilst cycling is very popular in France, Spain and Italy and a number of great riders in the peleton come from those countries to limit the tours to those three countries is a bit harsh on the others. Also slightly shortsighted.
Sometimes it is a case of logistics, creating stages in the Pyrennees, Dolomites and Alps for example that avoid travelling over border would perhaps limit the stage profiles. But mainly its about expanding the appeal and as has been mentioned before increasing revenue.
The fan interest created by the Tour de France departing in London was amazing as I think starting the Giro will be in Washington.
I also think mixing things up a bit with a stage over differing terrain like cobbles or strade bianchi gives cycle fans something different to observe.
Going to neighboring countries isn't a problem, unless it isn't safe
Last year, Giro would normally pass through France during Cuneo-Pinerolo stage, but because of safety reasons concerning the road of Col de la Madeleine (if I remember right), organisers chose to make a different route in Italy, despite the fact that it could've been a great moment of cyling in the Alps, with crowds, and so on...
And finally it was a great stage.
As for pavé, gravel,... I think it's sort of fashion among Tour organisers, maybe it'll end in a few years
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 16-05-2010 17:45
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Juan wrote:
Smowz wrote:
The bottom line is that there are three Grand Tours.
Tour de France, Vuelta d'Espana and the Giro d'Italia. I cannot see another race managing to rival their status as Grand Tours. Whilst cycling is very popular in France, Spain and Italy and a number of great riders in the peleton come from those countries to limit the tours to those three countries is a bit harsh on the others. Also slightly shortsighted.
Sometimes it is a case of logistics, creating stages in the Pyrennees, Dolomites and Alps for example that avoid travelling over border would perhaps limit the stage profiles. But mainly its about expanding the appeal and as has been mentioned before increasing revenue.
The fan interest created by the Tour de France departing in London was amazing as I think starting the Giro will be in Washington.
I also think mixing things up a bit with a stage over differing terrain like cobbles or strade bianchi gives cycle fans something different to observe.
...
As for pavé, gravel,... I think it's sort of fashion among Tour organisers, maybe it'll end in a few years
I think its sort of like having a Red Ferrari or A grey Buggati Veyron. While one looks nicer the other goes a lot faster.
It adds an extra element that the organizers like and it sounds great but it has its dangerous aspects too.
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 16-05-2010 18:50
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I have to say that although i didn't see it the strade bianchi sounded like a good stage and some variation is nice. as to foreign countries, assuming it doesn't cause major logistical problems, as washington will, then i don't think it ruins the identity of the race - it gives that country a chance to experience it, it brings new fans to the sport and you still have the traditional mountain stages.
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