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The Politics Thread
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 07-02-2017 08:33
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baseballlover312 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
The same can be said for protests in my opinion. I am all for peaceful protest, but you need to pick and choose battles or the battles are meaningless.
So as an example, is it better to protest against the lawmakers or the against the law? And is it then worthless to protest against the law and the people who made it, when you could focus on either?
The law in my opinion. The lawmakers are set. They were just elected, and there are no recalls for federal representatives. Protest the specific law or action that is unacceptable. If you protest everything a lawmaker does, I think it comes off as whiny, and it certainly doesn't convince the lawmaker to do anything different - it just pisses them off, especially with a guy as reactionary as Trump.
I disagree here. I feel it is the lawmakers/government you should protest but it needs to be organised and focussed. Protesting the actual laws is what is currently happening in America and everyone is just running around like headless chickens protesting against everything Trump says.
The womens march was organised but it was one section of the population doing their own thing, protesting for their own interests, while others do their own thing. That is the problem at the moment. All of the protesters are looking at the issues from their own perspective and not the bigger picture. Would those women have been protesting if Trump hadn't said "grab em in the pussy"? Would they be protesting the travel ban or are they only interested in their own womens rights?
There needs to be one movement with a specific goal to really generate momentum otherwise, as BBL says, it just comes across as whiny when you turn the news on everyday and they are protesting something new.
It's like a pack of sled dogs. If they all pull in roughly the same direction they will move forward but will inevitably all hold each other back. If they all pull together behind one leader/cause they will be 10 times stronger and can really make a difference.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 07-02-2017 09:00
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ringo182 wrote:
Would they be protesting the travel ban or are they only interested in their own womens rights?
Well, as i wrote the Womens March had a variety of points over which they marched which was beyond a simplisitic "womens rights" movement.
I will also point out that the travel ban, Executive Order 13769, was signed on 27th January, whilst the Womens March was on the 21st January. It would have been incredible to protest against a ban that hadn't happened yet.
And as i said already, there is a wide range of anti-Trump protest because the administration is pushing through a range of actions at speed. So would you then say people should wait until he's finished, then have big overarching protest? And that as it's an anti-Trump sentiment, that it needs a specific central figure? Because it has one cause, stop Trump.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 07-02-2017 09:33
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I can tell you that too if you want. 
The whole Womens march was one big crap idiocy. Women protesting for the rights they already have, that is what you call a first world problems. I hope they at least were fast enough to get back to the kitchen after that...
And as Paul wrote, mixing it with right to wear the muslim women pyjamas is pure hell, nobody sees the major paradox in it?
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 07-02-2017 09:36
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 07-02-2017 11:16
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TheManxMissile wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Would they be protesting the travel ban or are they only interested in their own womens rights?
And as i said already, there is a wide range of anti-Trump protest because the administration is pushing through a range of actions at speed. So would you then say people should wait until he's finished, then have big overarching protest? And that as it's an anti-Trump sentiment, that it needs a specific central figure? Because it has one cause, stop Trump.
I think they would benefit from taking a step back, organising and then working together for a single goal rather than reacting to everything as it happens.
Obviously that will be very difficult to do given the wide range of people pissed off at Trump for a wide range of issues. But it's the only way they are going to effect any real change.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 21-04-2025 11:44
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 07-02-2017 21:28
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Betsy De Vos confirmed.
Time for another protest  Her job for 4 years is literally to make poor kids have no access to good education so they stay dumb and vote Republican in years to come.
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| jseadog1 |
Posted on 07-02-2017 21:45
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Alakagom wrote:
Betsy De Vos confirmed.
Time for another protest Her job for 4 years is literally to make poor kids have no access to good education so they stay dumb and vote Republican in years to come.
This is an extremely sad day for the already poor education system in America. Luckily I am done with education in May
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| Strydz |
Posted on 08-02-2017 04:19
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Paul23 wrote:
There is no gender pay gap. To be accurate, it's around 3-7% and it only occurs, because men negotiate their contracts better. The main problem is, that women work in jobs, which are not well paid itself, whilst more men work in well paid jobs.
Also women work less time in average, because they take time to raise children.
That's simply not true! When you take away all other factors women are still getting paid less than men, if what you were saying was true then why is it when women who do the same jobs as men on average get paid less? We have more woman getting a university education than men yet when they enter the workforce are receiving less pay, plenty of studies have shown when women try and negotiate a better pay rate in interviews that they are less likely to get the job than a male doing the same thing, Female physicians, for instance, earn 71 percent of what male physicians earn, and lawyers earn 82 percent. Consider the discrepancies in jobs requiring similar education and responsibility, or similar skills, but divided by gender. According to US Bureau of Labor Statistics data the median earnings of Info technology managers (mostly men) are 27 percent higher than human resources managers (mostly women), then at the end of wage earners we have janitors (usually men) earn 22 percent more than maids and housecleaners (usually women). We also have data showing that between 1950 to 2000 the share of women increased in many fields and found that when women moved into occupations in large numbers, those jobs began paying less even after controlling for education, work experience, skills, race and geography. The gender pay is shrinking but the reasons it still exists are for more reasons than you have stated.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 08-02-2017 08:33
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The pay gap is a difficult one. There is obviously a discrepancy but there are also often valid reasons.
It's important not to simply pay women the same as men just because they are women, because that is just as sexist/discriminatory as the current situation.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 08-02-2017 08:57
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I wonder if all the people know that we live in society where market points the value of labour and height of salaries.
Market, no socialist politicians or social justice warriors, who want to unify everything in lives of mankind for uknown reason (uknown for me, who lived his early childhood in socialism and who was tought by parents that socialism means the destruction of individuality, which is true).
You can live in your equality bubbles, but in real life, men and women all have different qualities for certain jobs and there are also jobs, where women are paid more than men. It is also no secret that women employees are somewhat bigger "danger" for the employer, because they usually leave the job for years to raise the children. Women are also more driven by emotions than a reason by nature and thus not generally suitable for some kind of jobs, especially under pressure. There are exceptions of course, but anyone who have worked in larger team for some years know about these differencies.
So to make the point - let market set the value of work of every individual, no social engineering, which is the way to hell for many reasons.
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 08-02-2017 12:04
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Women are also more driven by emotions than a reason by nature and thus not generally suitable for some kind of jobs, especially under pressure.
Yeah, thankfully we've got guys like Trump in charge making decisions based on reason. 
And I won't get into the whole unfettered markets thing...
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 08-02-2017 13:39
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Strydz wrote:
Paul23 wrote:
There is no gender pay gap. To be accurate, it's around 3-7% and it only occurs, because men negotiate their contracts better. The main problem is, that women work in jobs, which are not well paid itself, whilst more men work in well paid jobs.
Also women work less time in average, because they take time to raise children.
That's simply not true! When you take away all other factors women are still getting paid less than men, if what you were saying was true then why is it when women who do the same jobs as men on average get paid less? We have more woman getting a university education than men yet when they enter the workforce are receiving less pay, plenty of studies have shown when women try and negotiate a better pay rate in interviews that they are less likely to get the job than a male doing the same thing, Female physicians, for instance, earn 71 percent of what male physicians earn, and lawyers earn 82 percent. Consider the discrepancies in jobs requiring similar education and responsibility, or similar skills, but divided by gender. According to US Bureau of Labor Statistics data the median earnings of Info technology managers (mostly men) are 27 percent higher than human resources managers (mostly women), then at the end of wage earners we have janitors (usually men) earn 22 percent more than maids and housecleaners (usually women). We also have data showing that between 1950 to 2000 the share of women increased in many fields and found that when women moved into occupations in large numbers, those jobs began paying less even after controlling for education, work experience, skills, race and geography. The gender pay is shrinking but the reasons it still exists are for more reasons than you have stated.
Sorry, that I actually have connections to some big companies. I have connections to the "Deutsche Bahn", to "Palfinger Platforms", "DVAG", to some hospitals, because of my mom...Nowhere there get women paid less. Not a single cent. My mom even laughed first, when I asked her about the pay gap. She still does.
The Army pays them equal as well. Also when you're working on a construction site, you get paid the same.(not completely, because they pay you by performance, so most women get paid less, but there are guys that get paid even less and women that earn more.)
@Avin: I totally agree with you. Couldn't agree more.
@wackojackohighcliffe: Nice job trying to change the facts. It doesn't work like that:
Person A: "Women are worse than men in sports."
Person B: "But you are worse than Marianne Vos in cycling."
You can't bring an exception, to kill a fact.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 08-02-2017 13:44
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Women are also more driven by emotions than a reason by nature and thus not generally suitable for some kind of jobs, especially under pressure.
Yeah, thankfully we've got guys like Trump in charge making decisions based on reason.
And I won't get into the whole unfettered markets thing...
What does the person of an american president has to do with my post? I dont see any connection, apart from fact that if american president was a woman, she would have same rights and benefits as the male president.
As i wrote, there are exceptions of course, but market usually follows the general rule, not exceptions.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 08-02-2017 14:04
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Women are also more driven by emotions than a reason by nature and thus not generally suitable for some kind of jobs, especially under pressure.
Yeah, thankfully we've got guys like Trump in charge making decisions based on reason.
And I won't get into the whole unfettered markets thing...
What does the person of an american president has to do with my post? I dont see any connection, apart from fact that if american president was a woman, she would have same rights and benefits as the male president.
As i wrote, there are exceptions of course, but market usually follows the general rule, not exceptions.
I think Wacko's Trump comment was a bit tongue in cheek.
I guess we'll see if a female president gets the same rights as a male one if one ever gets elected. If Clinton couldn't beat Trump then it looks like it's going to be a long time before it happens.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 08-02-2017 14:59
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ringo182 wrote:
If Clinton couldn't beat Trump then it looks like it's going to be a long time before it happens.
That wasn't so much because Clinton was female, as the fact that the Democrats royally screwed up their campaign in the late stages. Combined with a general underestimation of the numbers of quiet supporters of Trump.
I mean, the USA is somewhat tolerant. They did vote for a black guy twice
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 08-02-2017 15:03
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TheManxMissile wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
If Clinton couldn't beat Trump then it looks like it's going to be a long time before it happens.
That wasn't so much because Clinton was female, as the fact that the Democrats royally screwed up their campaign in the late stages. Combined with a general underestimation of the numbers of quiet supporters of Trump.
I mean, the USA is somewhat tolerant. They did vote for a black guy twice
Well Kanye West is going to be the next president so it'll be at least another 10 years
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 08-02-2017 17:25
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ringo182 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Women are also more driven by emotions than a reason by nature and thus not generally suitable for some kind of jobs, especially under pressure.
Yeah, thankfully we've got guys like Trump in charge making decisions based on reason.
And I won't get into the whole unfettered markets thing...
What does the person of an american president has to do with my post? I dont see any connection, apart from fact that if american president was a woman, she would have same rights and benefits as the male president.
As i wrote, there are exceptions of course, but market usually follows the general rule, not exceptions.
I think Wacko's Trump comment was a bit tongue in cheek.
I guess we'll see if a female president gets the same rights as a male one if one ever gets elected. If Clinton couldn't beat Trump then it looks like it's going to be a long time before it happens.
Thanks ringo
I felt your point wasn't really worth adressing as it's clear men aren't at all based on reason either.
Markets tend to corrupt and shouldn't be left alone on any account. And of course there are no free markets anyway.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 09-02-2017 07:42
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Markets tend to corrupt only when socialist commrades try to control them and restrict them with artificial tools like social engineering.
About my main point, you can play your role like sexes have no mental and physical differencies, but that will only make you look like naive person sold to british unification doctrine. Enjoy your Orwellish future...as it stands now, i am really happy that UK wants to go out of EU, since their social experiments have no place in continental Europe.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 09-02-2017 07:53
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Markets tend to corrupt only when socialist commrades try to control them and restrict them with artificial tools like social engineering.
About my main point, you can play your role like sexes have no mental and physical differencies, but that will only make you look like naive person sold to british unification doctrine. Enjoy your Orwellish future...as it stands now, i am really happy that UK wants to go out of EU, since their social experiments have no place in continental Europe.
What are you talking about you fool?
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 09-02-2017 08:03
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About shit like this:
https://www.telegr...ansgender/
Or about things like 20% of all CCTV cameras in the world being in UK, about your excessive bureaucracy, about control of everyday life and many other things.
I just dont think your country is good role model for modern european society.
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