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TdF'13 Stage 18 - Gap to Alpe-d'Huez (July 18)
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| kumazan |
Posted on 18-07-2013 18:34
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Team Leader
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fosforgasXIII wrote:
6.30 W/kg (CPL) sounds a lot. I don't know much of watts, VAM etc., so Isso, is it suspucious?
For a ~40 min effort is quite a high value, yep.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 18-07-2013 18:38
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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Please tell me you're intentionally trying to not understand because this is absurdly simple:
Different methods give different results. The same method gives the same results. We compare figures from the same method so they're valid.
It's not rocket science dude...
It really freaks me out the lengths you're willing to go to insist that everyone is always clean 
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ruben |
Posted on 18-07-2013 18:41
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Grand Tour Champion
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ok just watched todays stage
i knew mollema would drop but didn't expect him this bad today. Oh well, if he doesn't TOTALLY collapse tomorrow or saturday he should finish 7th.. at least a realistic place. Too bad he couldn't keep the form of the first week, but that was to be expected |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 18-07-2013 18:42
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
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issoisso wrote:
Please tell me you're intentionally trying to not understand because this is absurdly simple:
Different methods give different results. The same method gives the same results. We compare figures from the same method so they're valid.
It's not rocket science dude...
It really freaks me out the lengths you're willing to go to insist that everyone is always clean
Don't treat me (or anyone for that matter) like a dumbass.
The fact that different method gives different results is already a bad thing. If you compare W/kg from the same method, that's good and you can work with that. But it's all relative and you can't say anything absolute with it. It's hard to say 6.8 W/kg is impossible when the results range from 6 to 6.45 from the same ride.
And at what part did I say anything about clean/doping? I merely say: stop treating W/kg like a God. It's not the absolute truth and cycling is not restricted to those numbers.
Edited by Ian Butler on 18-07-2013 18:43
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| issoisso |
Posted on 18-07-2013 18:47
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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kumazan wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
6.30 W/kg (CPL) sounds a lot. I don't know much of watts, VAM etc., so Isso, is it suspucious?
For a ~40 min effort is quite a high value, yep.
Yeah, not absolutely insane but very high
Ian Butler wrote:
Don't treat me (or anyone for that matter) like a dumbass.
I'm trying not to, but it's either that or you're intentionally trying to pretend you don't understand, this is really basic.
Ian Butler wrote:
The fact that different method gives different results is already a bad thing. If you compare W/kg from the same method, that's good and you can work with that. But it's all relative and you can't say anything absolute with it. It's hard to say 6.8 W/kg is impossible when the results range from 6 to 6.45 from the same ride.
The last sentence proves you don't even begin to understand. 6.8w/kg is impossible using the CPL method.
Any type of numerical analysis has many different methods, all giving different results. The point is that all the results are seen from the same perspective: using the same method.
6.8w/kg is impossible clean with the CPL method. That's what matters. This is basic stuff Ian!
Ian Butler wrote:
And at what part did I say anything about clean/doping? I merely say: stop treating W/kg like a God. It's not the absolute truth and cycling is not restricted to those numbers.
Ah yes, taking a generalization and pretending it referred to one specific case. A common fallacy.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 18-07-2013 18:52
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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issoisso wrote:
kumazan wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
6.30 W/kg (CPL) sounds a lot. I don't know much of watts, VAM etc., so Isso, is it suspucious?
For a ~40 min effort is quite a high value, yep.
Yeah, not absolutely insane but very high
Ian Butler wrote:
Don't treat me (or anyone for that matter) like a dumbass.
I'm trying not to, but it's either that or you're intentionally trying to pretend you don't understand, this is really basic.
Ian Butler wrote:
The fact that different method gives different results is already a bad thing. If you compare W/kg from the same method, that's good and you can work with that. But it's all relative and you can't say anything absolute with it. It's hard to say 6.8 W/kg is impossible when the results range from 6 to 6.45 from the same ride.
The last sentence proves you don't even begin to understand. 6.8w/kg is impossible using the CPL method.
Any type of numerical analysis has many different methods, all giving different results. The point is that all the results are seen from the same perspective: using the same method.
6.8w/kg is impossible clean with the CPL method. That's what matters. This is basic stuff Ian!
Ian Butler wrote:
And at what part did I say anything about clean/doping? I merely say: stop treating W/kg like a God. It's not the absolute truth and cycling is not restricted to those numbers.
Ah yes, taking a generalization and pretending it referred to one specific case. A common fallacy.
Well all I've seen from some claiming Froome to be doping are those numbers. So I'm pretty sure some people value them a bit too highly.
I've heard 6.8W/kg is impossible to ride clean.
1st question: says who? How is talent measured? Wouldn't it be possible to have an extreme talent that can have 6.8 without doping (this is an actual question, not rhetorical, I don't know if this is possible, but it could be? Also not saying Froome is that person)
2nd question: Every time I've read or heard about W/kg, I never see what method they use (I mean radio/papers). So they just go on about what values are impossible, but never what methods are used, so they can be messing around with any method they'd like for that matter. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 12:54
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| XxMillad24Xx |
Posted on 18-07-2013 19:13
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Stagiare
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A lot of riders bonked today. Froome was the main guy, but also Schleck said he bonked, TVG bonked and others.
"Cycling is now the the world's cleanest sport." - Chris Froome
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| Ithaca |
Posted on 18-07-2013 19:16
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Domestique
Posts: 401
Joined: 13-07-2009
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In other, non-Froome related, news: This happened today:
Yes, that is Adam Hansen and a beer, courtesy of Dutch fans.
Edited by Ithaca on 18-07-2013 19:33
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 18-07-2013 19:23
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7694
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Ithaca wrote:
Yes, that is Adam Hansen and a beer, courtesy of Dutch fans.
CALL THE WADA!
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| issoisso |
Posted on 18-07-2013 19:24
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
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Oh Hansen. I love that guy
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 18-07-2013 19:25
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
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TimoCycling wrote:
Contadors attack was really awful aswell lol. Normally Saxo is strong tactically, but Contador is just desperate.
1. that was not proper atack..a test. Downhill test. Nothing serious there. he did not lost much energy there.
2. That was not Kreuziger there with him. |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 18-07-2013 19:30
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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After todays stage ..question.
How the fuck lost in that form Porte 10min. at first week? |
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| BritPCMFan |
Posted on 18-07-2013 19:32
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Stagiare
Posts: 245
Joined: 03-06-2013
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Ithaca wrote:
In other, non-Froome related news, this happened today:
Yes, that is Adam Hansen and a beer, courtesy of Dutch fans.
His rapidly becoming my favourite rider. Also, love for the always awesome dutchies XD |
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| Ithaca |
Posted on 18-07-2013 19:32
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Domestique
Posts: 401
Joined: 13-07-2009
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Waghlon wrote:
Ithaca wrote:
Yes, that is Adam Hansen and a beer, courtesy of Dutch fans.
CALL THE WADA!
Indeed, beer has properties hitherto unknown to the elite cyclist! |
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| ruben |
Posted on 18-07-2013 19:45
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
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Also, suddenly the massive gaps from PCM 2013 mt stages seem realistic  |
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| ruben |
Posted on 18-07-2013 19:47
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
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XxMillad24Xx wrote:
A lot of riders bonked today. Froome was the main guy, but also Schleck said he bonked, TVG bonked and others.
Dan Martin completely collapsed.
Ten dam almost completely collapsed. Mollema and Kwiatkowski are a lot worse than in week 2.. There will be more every day.
This Tour they've ridden every climb like it's the last climb. Insane pace. Riders pay..
Last years we had attack in the final 2km not before. Now Froome goes at the base of every climb and if Froome doesn't go it's Quintana who goes |
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 18-07-2013 19:50
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7694
Joined: 18-08-2007
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Ithaca wrote:
Waghlon wrote:
Ithaca wrote:
Yes, that is Adam Hansen and a beer, courtesy of Dutch fans.
CALL THE WADA!
Indeed, beer has properties hitherto unknown to the elite cyclist!
Hardly unknown. I know for a fact that i get better at everything when i've had three or four beers. That includes advanced math, exercise and drinking more beer.
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| Wilier |
Posted on 18-07-2013 19:50
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5405
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BritPCMFan wrote:
Ithaca wrote:
In other, non-Froome related news, this happened today:
Yes, that is Adam Hansen and a beer, courtesy of Dutch fans.
His rapidly becoming my favourite rider. Also, love for the always awesome dutchies XD
Ithaca wrote:
In other, non-Froome related, news: This happened today:
Yes, that is Adam Hansen and a beer, courtesy of Dutch fans.
Degenkolb took one as well. 
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 18-07-2013 19:50
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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BritPCMFan wrote:
Ithaca wrote:
In other, non-Froome related news, this happened today:
Yes, that is Adam Hansen and a beer, courtesy of Dutch fans.
His rapidly becoming my favourite rider. Also, love for the always awesome dutchies XD
you need to be something special to ride 5 GT strike |
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| Ithaca |
Posted on 18-07-2013 19:57
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Domestique
Posts: 401
Joined: 13-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Waghlon wrote:
Ithaca wrote:
Waghlon wrote:
Ithaca wrote:
Yes, that is Adam Hansen and a beer, courtesy of Dutch fans.
CALL THE WADA!
Indeed, beer has properties hitherto unknown to the elite cyclist!
Hardly unknown. I know for a fact that i get better at everything when i've had three or four beers. That includes advanced math, exercise and drinking more beer.
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