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Giro d'Italia 2014 First Week
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:52
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Shonak wrote:
I_Mayo wrote:
Shonak wrote:
I can't believe people compare Vuelta 2012 or Tour 2012 to what happened today: Back then it was a peloton. Today it were EIGHT riders. It's impossible to control a peloton without a boss like Armstrong (Evans certainly is and has never been a leader), but it's certainly possible to make an agreement in a 8 man group to wait for the first bigger group. 
Wait for a bigger group? But it would be hypocritical, because then you should wait for everyone. It's cycling, falls happen, watch spring classics.
It's not at all hypocriticial to wait for other riders. What makes you so cycnic to say something like that? There's no hypocrisy in fairness.
Of course, you can always continue riding, to each its own of course. But what makes BMC move particularly so... unfair is, that they attacked and drilled it. They didn't simply continue riding, they attacked.
In any case, you don't have to wait for everyone, of course not. "Anybody seen Janez?" Some guys lost over 10 minutes, it'd destroy the race. But you can easily wait for the nearest groups down the road, and - depending on the size of the crash, the remaining kilometers, size of peloton and your own group - this amount of riders is different and up to situational interpretation of your own and the peloton's moral compass. I'd say, 40 riders were acceptable, given the close finish line at that point. Also, you have to take into account when the group becomes uncontrollable. When you want to wait, but other riders attack, you are of course free to follow, even can talk to him (like what Matthews didn't do...).
Please don't compare spring classics to GTs.
But if you only wait for nearest group then the motive of waiting is wrong, as you only wait for GC or stage contenders and not the riders that fell. |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:54
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Riis123 wrote:
alexkr00 wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
- Belkin was at the front of the peloton, pacing. Valverde had a mechanical and Belkin upped the pace a bit, takin advantage of Valverde's misfortune in order for Mollema to get a better GC.
- BMC was at the front of the peloton, pacing hard as they knew it would be VERY important to get into the hill first as a result of the weather. Half the peloton crashed and only 20 or so was in the leading group, while BMC upped the pace a bit, taking advantage of the crash.
Yes, similar situations, but:
- Valverde had the entire team with him and plenty of time to make it back. They just weren't as strong as Belkin/QuickStep (plus they had problems with their bladder)
- BMC are always at the front even when they don't need to be, causing most of the crash in the peloton.
On the other hand, it was VERY obvious that Belkin upped their pacemaking signifcantly after they realized Valverde was caught behind.
Dno what to say about the last one, you seem to dislike Evans and BMC. I dont think they were the problem here, they simply just knew what consequences this weather could bring
Yes, they upped their pace when they saw Valverde was caught behind.
I said the situations were quite similar. Just that back then Valverde had the possibility to make gain back that time with all the team around him and still a long way to the finish, which you can't say about the the favorites that were caught in the crash today.
Yes, I dislike Evans, mostly because he's one of the biggest jackasses in the peloton.
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| The Rider |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:56
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Metriz- wrote:
Alakagom wrote:
If Evans punctures on road in coming days it will be fun to watch for sure. Katusha and Movistar already hated BMC anyway though. I honestly don't think anyone in the peloton will have anything bad to say about BMC after today, but lets wait and see.
Exactly. 100% of the other teams, if in the same situation, might well have done the same. It is not right and it is not wrong it is bike racing. No matter what BMC may have done, people would be complaining either way.
Shonak - Friend, you are being hypocritical when you say ' People should wait, but of course not for everyone'. That is the perfect definition of a hypocritical statement, surely you can see that? I hope you can because I know you have good intentions.
@ alexkr - That statement of yours which Metriz just highlighted sums up why I usually avoid these forums ie. pointless slander, vain comments and a conformist negative atmosphere. Good for people who know no better and like that sort of stuff I suppose.
- Shame we can't get a group together on this website to have a meaningful debate/ discussion on the cycling without some slander, juvenile comment or petty argument getting in the way, even for just one day......  |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:02
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The Rider wrote:
@ alexkr - That statement of yours which Metriz just highlighted sums up why I usually avoid these forums ie. pointless slander, vain comments and a conformist negative atmosphere. Good for people who know no better and like that sort of stuff I suppose.
Cadel always puts his team-mates in front of the pack even in the sprint finishes so that he is "safe".With the sprint trains usually there, there's not enough space for everyone, which results in crashes.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 13:45
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:03
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All arguing aside, what's done is done. For most of the pre race favourites the time gaps relative to the route over the 3 weeks are probably a lot less significant than the lasting effects of some of their injuries |
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| Kritzo |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:06
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Metriz- wrote:
Kritzo wrote:
When the producers focused at the crash, and just gave us a glimpse of the front of the race, BMC rode a lot harder, than they did before the crash. They could have easily communicated an agreement of stopping in that small group, and people saying that Evans did not take full advantage of the crash did not watch the today's stage.
It's settled then. Who should get the stage win when they roll over the finish line?
Please, don't put random words in my mouth. I did not say anything about neutralizing the race. I just mentioned something about waiting for the nearest GC contenders.
Proud Member of the Leeds United Army!
RAFAL MAJKA |
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:09
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Kritzo wrote:
Metriz- wrote:
Kritzo wrote:
When the producers focused at the crash, and just gave us a glimpse of the front of the race, BMC rode a lot harder, than they did before the crash. They could have easily communicated an agreement of stopping in that small group, and people saying that Evans did not take full advantage of the crash did not watch the today's stage.
It's settled then. Who should get the stage win when they roll over the finish line?
Please, don't put random words in my mouth. I did not say anything about neutralizing the race. I just mentioned something about waiting for the nearest GC contenders.
which, in this situation, is prety much the same thing
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| jph27 |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:09
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Fractured ribs for Purito, broken collarbone for Caruso and broken femur for Vicioso. |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:10
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jph27 wrote:
Fractured ribs for Purito, broken collarbone for Caruso and broken femur for Vicioso.
I wonder if Moreno will step up as the team leader now
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| Ste117 |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:13
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Maybe the organisers should wash the roads before the stage, on days there is a chance of rain. Like we seen today and yesterday, slippy roads is everyone's main concern.
MG Team manager Team Ticos Air Costa Rica
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:16
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Ste117 wrote:
Maybe the organisers should wash the roads before the stage, on days there is a chance of rain. Like we seen today and yesterday, slippy roads is everyone's main concern.
Or just hold the stages on an indoor track, remove the weather factor completely! Then the peloton would never slow down, and we could actually use cyclists instead of the LHC 
(that come out way more sarcastic than intended, sorry)
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:19
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alexkr00 wrote:
jph27 wrote:
Fractured ribs for Purito, broken collarbone for Caruso and broken femur for Vicioso.
I wonder if Moreno will step up as the team leader now
By being down in GC almost 6 minutes? |
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:19
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Ste117 wrote:
Maybe the organisers should wash the roads before the stage, on days there is a chance of rain. Like we seen today and yesterday, slippy roads is everyone's main concern.
I think someone, don't who exactly but someone DOES get through the stage parcours some time in front of riders should warn everyone on the race radio thats theres a slippery roundabout. That would be totally enough. There clearly wasnt any warning coz riders were absolutely flying in there. |
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:19
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Thank every God ever imagined that Andy Schleck didn't race todays stage.
There's a fine line between "psychotherapist" and "psycho the rapist"
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| Shonak |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:19
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I_Mayo wrote:
But if you only wait for nearest group then the motive of waiting is wrong, as you only wait for GC or stage contenders and not the riders that fell.
The Rider wrote:
Shonak - Friend, you are being hypocritical when you say ' People should wait, but of course not for everyone'. That is the perfect definition of a hypocritical statement, surely you can see that? I hope you can because I know you have good intentions.
I fail to see where I'm being hypocrticial because describing me as such does not warrant it in any way. There's a difference between waiting for others riders and waiting for so long that you thereby destroy the race. Can you wait for Caruso. No? Then you should stop splitting hairs. There's also a difference between what is possible and what is not without destroying the race. What counts is, that Evans and Matthews and the other 6 riders accelerated and gained an advantage on the misfortune of everybody in the peloton and didn't even think about holding up apparently.
Also, the "But who should you wait for?"-game is tiresome. Everybody knows who the GC contenders are, there's a clear-cut hierarchy. And when they are close, (thus excluding Purito), they should have, in my opinion, have a fair chance to catch up after such a horrific crash.
There are no written rules in the peloton and riders treat it differently, just like fans have different opinions on it. I don't like Matthews' and Evans' actions today. They attacked a peloton that got caught up today. The only similiar action was of Rolland at Tour 2012, who attacked the peloton too, without fully knowing it though and he got a shit-load of hate from other riders. That being said, it's part of racing, I'm fully aware of that, and I know that this is not a competition of chivalry. Just don't expect to cheer for or even appreciate Evans and Matthews in this Giro.
Edited by Shonak on 15-05-2014 18:25
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ste117 |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:20
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Ste117 wrote:
Maybe the organisers should wash the roads before the stage, on days there is a chance of rain. Like we seen today and yesterday, slippy roads is everyone's main concern.
Or just hold the stages on an indoor track, remove the weather factor completely! Then the peloton would never slow down, and we could actually use cyclists instead of the LHC
(that come out way more sarcastic than intended, sorry)
No no, I don't mean dry the roads and mean wash the roads of any oil that seems to be a contributing factor in the South of Italy.
We had wet weather for the stages in Ireland but because the roads are washed regularly, oil is not a factor whereas in Italy they dont so all the oil/rubbish is collected therefore making the road an ice rink for the riders if it rains.
MG Team manager Team Ticos Air Costa Rica
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| Strydz |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:20
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- Shame we can't get a group together on this website to have a meaningful debate/ discussion on the cycling without some slander, juvenile comment or petty argument getting in the way, even for just one day......
I think for the most part this forum is pretty good compared to most cycling forums out there, there is a pretty broad age group that uses this forum which can mean at times things can get a bit silly.
It is a pity what happened to Purito but to be honest he wasn't looking good yesterday and seemed to have lost form after the crash in the Ardennes, might be a blessing in the end that he drops out here and comes back for the Tour or Vuelta
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:24
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Just resurface all the roads in southern Italy... and then keep cars...in fact anything vaguely related to oil off them. Suspect even less of the south next year... |
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:36
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@Shonak the difference in my mind with that Rolland incident you mention is not even he would have attacked there but for the crash - he altered his actions to profit. Here they were already racing hard they just kept going.
Like you say it's a big fat grey area and we're all going to have a different take and that's fine 
Apart from that I think the logistics of agreeing to wait and for whom amidst all the in race chaos and with as many opinions in the peloton as on this board...well it's challenging. |
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 15-05-2014 18:38
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@Shonak I just think that your suggestion is wrong, because it just can't be anything else but hypocritical as you can't draw that line where you split peasants from kings. If you want Evans to not have advantage that he gained today, then organizers should give anybody that finished the same time or something along those lines.
Edited by I_Mayo on 15-05-2014 18:40
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
