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Giro d'Italia 2014 First Week
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| Metriz- |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:29
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Domestique
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Kritzo wrote:
When the producers focused at the crash, and just gave us a glimpse of the front of the race, BMC rode a lot harder, than they did before the crash. They could have easily communicated an agreement of stopping in that small group, and people saying that Evans did not take full advantage of the crash did not watch the today's stage.
It's settled then. Who should get the stage win when they roll over the finish line? |
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| Malkael |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:29
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Sprinter
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Majka, for any doubters, now confirmed to be the rider who was in the second group who lost 49". Nico Roche confirmed to be the rider who lost a whole 15'00" and with it any ambitions of doing well in the GC.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 15:16
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:29
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Sprinter
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Riis123 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
@Riis: I really don't want to argue aswell, simply because it's no use.
I just want to say, you are comparing two situations that can't be compared, so everything you say is invalid cause that time doesn't apply to this situation.
Of cource they can be compared, even though I acknowdgle the situation is different - but that doesnt mean it can't be compared at all, can it? Not everything is black/white
- Belkin was at the front of the peloton, pacing. Valverde had a mechanical and Belkin upped the pace a bit, takin advantage of Valverde's misfortune in order for Mollema to get a better GC.
- BMC was at the front of the peloton, pacing hard as they knew it would be VERY important to get into the hill first as a result of the weather. Half the peloton crashed and only 20 or so was in the leading group, while BMC upped the pace a bit, taking advantage of the crash.
The outline is the same, in one instance its totally fair (Belkin pacing, gaining time), the other instance Evans is a creep (Belkin not gaining anything)
You are seriously comparing one mechanical with 100 riders falling? I suggest you read the other comments here, a lot of people raise good points as to why BMC and Orica were dicks. |
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:30
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Sprinter
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cio93 wrote:
Kirchen_75 wrote:
Yeah 100%, I've seen it live on TV and posted 3 times about here but still people say Majka is out of GC 
Just some video evidence for all the doubters 
Good for Majka, should get top 10 aswell. |
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| tpinot |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:30
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 885
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On a completely other topic, looks like Astana forgot one of them 
tweet is saying : "Valerio Agnoli, forgotten on the summit by Astana's staff, go back with team Beinsports." |
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| Metriz- |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:31
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Domestique
Posts: 433
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TimoCycling wrote:
Spoiler Riis123 wrote:
TimoCycling wrote:
@Riis: I really don't want to argue aswell, simply because it's no use.
I just want to say, you are comparing two situations that can't be compared, so everything you say is invalid cause that time doesn't apply to this situation.
Of cource they can be compared, even though I acknowdgle the situation is different - but that doesnt mean it can't be compared at all, can it? Not everything is black/white
- Belkin was at the front of the peloton, pacing. Valverde had a mechanical and Belkin upped the pace a bit, takin advantage of Valverde's misfortune in order for Mollema to get a better GC.
- BMC was at the front of the peloton, pacing hard as they knew it would be VERY important to get into the hill first as a result of the weather. Half the peloton crashed and only 20 or so was in the leading group, while BMC upped the pace a bit, taking advantage of the crash.
The outline is the same, in one instance its totally fair (Belkin pacing, gaining time), the other instance Evans is a creep (Belkin not gaining anything)
You are seriously comparing one mechanical with 100 riders falling? I suggest you read the other comments here, a lot of people raise good points as to why BMC and Orica were dicks. So it's okay to take advantage of one riders misfortune, but not 100? How many does it take before you can't take advantage any longer?
Edited by Metriz- on 15-05-2014 17:32
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:32
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World Champion
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Riis123 wrote:
- Belkin was at the front of the peloton, pacing. Valverde had a mechanical and Belkin upped the pace a bit, takin advantage of Valverde's misfortune in order for Mollema to get a better GC.
- BMC was at the front of the peloton, pacing hard as they knew it would be VERY important to get into the hill first as a result of the weather. Half the peloton crashed and only 20 or so was in the leading group, while BMC upped the pace a bit, taking advantage of the crash.
Yes, similar situations, but:
- Valverde had the entire team with him and plenty of time to make it back. They just weren't as strong as Belkin/QuickStep (plus they had problems with their bladder)
- BMC are always at the front even when they don't need to be, causing most of the crash in the peloton.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:33
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Well, the reason I do that is because you justify Belkin in 2013 by saying: 'And Belkin started riding before Valverde fell(?) or flat tire I don't remember.' I just point out that BMC did the exact same thing |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:35
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Tour de France Champion
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I_Mayo wrote:
Shonak wrote:
I can't believe people compare Vuelta 2012 or Tour 2012 to what happened today: Back then it was a peloton. Today it were EIGHT riders. It's impossible to control a peloton without a boss like Armstrong (Evans certainly is and has never been a leader), but it's certainly possible to make an agreement in a 8 man group to wait for the first bigger group.
Wait for a bigger group? But it would be hypocritical, because then you should wait for everyone. It's cycling, falls happen, watch spring classics.
It's not at all hypocriticial to wait for other riders. What makes you so cycnic to say something like that? There's no hypocrisy in fairness.
Of course, you can always continue riding, to each its own of course. But what makes BMC move particularly so... unfair is, that they attacked and drilled it. They didn't simply continue riding, they attacked.
In any case, you don't have to wait for everyone, of course not. "Anybody seen Janez?" Some guys lost over 10 minutes, it'd destroy the race. But you can easily wait for the nearest groups down the road, and - depending on the size of the crash, the remaining kilometers, size of peloton and your own group - this amount of riders is different and up to situational interpretation of your own and the peloton's moral compass. I'd say, 40 riders were acceptable, given the close finish line at that point. Also, you have to take into account when the group becomes uncontrollable. When you want to wait, but other riders attack, you are of course free to follow, even can talk to him (like what Matthews didn't do...).
Please don't compare spring classics to GTs.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Iguwell |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:37
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Domestique
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It's unbelieveable people slate Evans for being well positioned and keeping the race going. This is not a political event - it's cycling, where you have to fight to ensure your own fortune.
It's disgraceful that he does not get respected for his ability to consistantly avoid these incidents. It's not by chance it was Evans benefitting. |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:40
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World Champion
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Iguwell wrote:
It's disgraceful that he does not get respected for his ability to consistantly avoid these incidents. It's not by chance it was Evans benefitting.
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| Metriz- |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:40
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Domestique
Posts: 433
Joined: 19-09-2007
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alexkr00 wrote:
- BMC are always at the front even when they don't need to be, causing most of the crash in the peloton. Well that's just some biased bullshit. Give me some facts to back that up. I think Belkins shitty bike handling causes as many crashes. |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:42
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Tour de France Champion
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KenL wrote:
To me the real failure in all of this is Mathews, simply because as the Leader of the Race he has a leadership role to fulfill and had the power to neutralize the stage until at least half the peleton rejoined...By not doing so he "Dishonours" the jersey. Just my opinion.
Yes. And OGE didn't call for a neutralization today, unlike two days prior. They should get some hate for that today, that's true hypocrisy. But no, somehow they are out of the equation... but of course, there's a shitstorm when Gerrans' wins LBL in a legit, fair way.
Edited by Shonak on 15-05-2014 17:43
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:43
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World Champion
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Metriz- wrote:
alexkr00 wrote:
- BMC are always at the front even when they don't need to be, causing most of the crash in the peloton. Well that's just some biased bullshit. Give me some facts to back that up. I think Belkins shitty bike handling causes as many crashes.
Sorry for offending you with my biased commends towards the nicest guy and the nicest team in the peloton, non-Evans fan
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| Iguwell |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:43
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Domestique
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alexkr00 wrote:
Iguwell wrote:
It's disgraceful that he does not get respected for his ability to consistantly avoid these incidents. It's not by chance it was Evans benefitting.
Just shush. |
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| ruben |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:45
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
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Well that was a massacre...
I'm bummed for Rodriguez, Arredondo and Niemiec/Scarponi..
Kelderman did well, kinda annoyed that he wasn't in the first group, in this form he could've done a top 5 easily
Movistar look suspiciously weak. They were done pulling quickly |
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| Metriz- |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:45
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Domestique
Posts: 433
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alexkr00 wrote:
Metriz- wrote:
alexkr00 wrote:
- BMC are always at the front even when they don't need to be, causing most of the crash in the peloton. Well that's just some biased bullshit. Give me some facts to back that up. I think Belkins shitty bike handling causes as many crashes.
Sorry for offending you with my biased commends towards the nicest guy and the nicest team in the peloton, non-Evans fan I don't care about Evans. I just think you're making bad arguments. |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:47
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
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Metriz- wrote:
alexkr00 wrote:
- BMC are always at the front even when they don't need to be, causing most of the crash in the peloton. Well that's just some biased bullshit. Give me some facts to back that up. I think Belkins shitty bike handling causes as many crashes.
Erm... not sure about the truth behind the initial "BMC always up front and thus causing crashes"-comment, but in any case: BMC do that with purpose and intention, whereas Belkin riders don't want to crash obviously. Apples and pears, you know.
Edited by Shonak on 15-05-2014 17:48
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Metriz- |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:47
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Domestique
Posts: 433
Joined: 19-09-2007
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ruben wrote:
Well that was a massacre...
I'm bummed for Rodriguez, Arredondo and Niemiec/Scarponi..
Kelderman did well, kinda annoyed that he wasn't in the first group, in this form he could've done a top 5 easily
Movistar look suspiciously weak. They were done pulling quickly Quintana finished way back in the second group too and didn't try anything alone like others. He will most likely be good for third week though. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 15-05-2014 17:47
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Grand Tour Specialist
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alexkr00 wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
- Belkin was at the front of the peloton, pacing. Valverde had a mechanical and Belkin upped the pace a bit, takin advantage of Valverde's misfortune in order for Mollema to get a better GC.
- BMC was at the front of the peloton, pacing hard as they knew it would be VERY important to get into the hill first as a result of the weather. Half the peloton crashed and only 20 or so was in the leading group, while BMC upped the pace a bit, taking advantage of the crash.
Yes, similar situations, but:
- Valverde had the entire team with him and plenty of time to make it back. They just weren't as strong as Belkin/QuickStep (plus they had problems with their bladder)
- BMC are always at the front even when they don't need to be, causing most of the crash in the peloton.
On the other hand, it was VERY obvious that Belkin upped their pacemaking signifcantly after they realized Valverde was caught behind.
Dno what to say about the last one, you seem to dislike Evans and BMC. I dont think they were the problem here, they simply just knew what consequences this weather could bring |
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